Thinking About Upgrading Your Sound System? Do It!

[fblainen11]

Kenwood KAC-M1804 Compact 4-channel amplifier ? 45 watts RMS x 4 at Crutchfield.com

Also check out this Kenwood Amp. Same power but smaller. This one is smaller than my hand and fits easily behind the dash under the radio.
Edit: Well, maybe not a lot smaller, but different dimensions. 6.5 inches in length as opposed to 8 inches

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

gamefreak, is there any chance that water can get past the window dust-strip and get the front crossovers wet?

When I built a car audio system years ago, I put my crossovers on the interior door panel. I also built fiberglass rain shields, to cover the in-door speaker baskets and magnets and prevent water from reaching them. I coated all my MDF in polyurethane, to prevent it from absorbing water or moisture/humidity over time. All hardware that I use in auto installs is stainless steel. Just some ideas.

*PS: I do go a little crazy-overboard when I build a car stereo, so take my ideas with a grain of salt I would also design everything to use machine screws, never wood or sheetmetal screws.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Kenwood KAC-M1804 Compact 4-channel amplifier ? 45 watts RMS x 4 at Crutchfield.com

Also check out this Kenwood Amp. Same power but smaller. This one is smaller than my hand and fits easily behind the dash under the radio.
Edit: Well, maybe not a lot smaller, but different dimensions. 6.5 inches in length as opposed to 8 inches

Yeah, I saw that amp. It's a good one and fits real nice. I went with the Alpine since it connects via the speaker level connector to my head unit and freed up my pre-amps for a subwoofer. Can't go wrong with either of those though!

gamefreak, is there any chance that water can get past the window dust-strip and get the front crossovers wet?

When I built a car audio system years ago, I put my crossovers on the interior door panel. I also built fiberglass rain shields, to cover the in-door speaker baskets and magnets and prevent water from reaching them. I coated all my MDF in polyurethane, to prevent it from absorbing water or moisture/humidity over time. All hardware that I use in auto installs is stainless steel. Just some ideas.

*PS: I do go a little crazy-overboard when I build a car stereo, so take my ideas with a grain of salt I would also design everything to use machine screws, never wood or sheetmetal screws.

Yes, it's possible. However, I had no water damage, rust or anything to make me think that water will go down in the door. The rear doors had water marks though, so I wouldn't put anything in the rears. My reasoning was this:

1. My windows don't leak when the windows are up, seals nicely
2. If water gets in the door eventually, it will most likely drip down the window, not the outer shell of the door
3. I applied the crossovers using heavy duty Velcro, so the crossovers themselves are not flush against the door

I'm not too worried about it. Plus it doesn't rain that much in California.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Installed Alpine power pack, 45RMS x 4 (a bit higher since the Infinitys run at 3 ohms, not 4) - $100. Best part? NO EXTRA WIRING NEEDED!

I strongly recommend you install new 14G wiring to go with the Alpine 45x4 RMS upgrade.

The factory wiring is a joke and was only designed for about 5-10 Watts. You're running 45W RMS now, an increase of about 500% from what it was designed for. Its less a safety issue and more of a sound quality factor.

Just do it brahhh!

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I strongly recommend you install new 14G wiring to go with the Alpine 45x4 RMS upgrade.

The factory wiring is a joke and was only designed for about 5-10 Watts. You're running 45W RMS now, an increase of about 500% from what it was designed for. Its less a safety issue and more of a sound quality factor.

Just do it brahhh!

I agree. Even going with tiny 16G wire would be an upgrade. It looks like you are installing a nice system, especially with all the sound treatment. Nice work!

 

[Unner]

I strongly recommend you install new 14G wiring to go with the Alpine 45x4 RMS upgrade.

The factory wiring is a joke and was only designed for about 5-10 Watts. You're running 45W RMS now, an increase of about 500% from what it was designed for. Its less a safety issue and more of a sound quality factor.

Just do it brahhh!

Would you say that the speaker wiring should be upgraded after any amp is added? Just wondering as I was looking at possibly installing that Kenwood amp listed earlier and some new speakers later this fall.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Would you say that the speaker wiring should be upgraded after any amp is added? Just wondering as I was looking at possibly installing that Kenwood amp listed earlier and some new speakers later this fall.

Brian can answer for himself, but I'll add my opinion... Yes. The factory wire is crap. If you upgrade anything, head-unit, amp, speakers, etc., you should upgrade the wiring. BUT, don't be buying wire that is $1/foot. Don't pay for name brand wire. For speaker wire, worry about gauge. 16G wire from Home Depot is better than what is installed from the factory. Ideally, get stranded, copper wire meant for speakers. For interconnects, again, no need for name brand, but you do want to worry about the connections on those. Worry about quality more on the interconnects than the speaker wire. My favorite brand is bluejeanscable.com, although they are getting to be high end these days. They will custom build the wire you need to the length you need, with great quality wire and connections. Again, you don't need to even get that fancy though. Monster is nice, but it is also overpriced.
For speaker wire, worry about gauge. For interconnects, worry about the connectors.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I'd say anything over 20W RMS (basically any separate amp) then yes upgrade the speaker wire. It really isn't that hard to run along the edge of the carpet.

I'd also run new (+) and (-) from the battery to the head unit.

 

[Unner]

I'd say anything over 20W RMS (basically any separate amp) then yes upgrade the speaker wire. It really isn't that hard to run along the edge of the carpet.

I'd also run new (+) and (-) from the battery to the head unit.

Alright, what's the reasoning for the new wire to the head unit? Is the amp drawing through the same power source as the headunit?

 

[BrianSD_42]

Alright, what's the reasoning for the new wire to the head unit? Is the amp drawing through the same power source as the headunit?

Alpine head units specifically say to run additional power for the heads unit. You can still use the ACC wire to trigger the head unit on but run new power and ground. Be sure to include a basic fuse. I would use 12G wire for the head unit.

You don't have to do this but if you have it all pulled apart this is the best way to do it right.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I thought about running new speaker wire, but it's too much work.

For what I have, it sounds really good. I don't feel the need to change the wiring, it'd just be a ton of work and I'd need to repin the harness, etc.

The stock wiring is high quality solid copper, so that's promising at least.

 

[0xfded]

Heh, damn. You've got me looking at 4 channel amps on Amazon, and Brian's got me thinking hard about running new wiring while I'm at it. Got a spool of 16ga speaker wire sitting here from a long-ago project, and I love over-engineered things...

Also, I love where you've put the Infinity crossovers on the fronts. I think I'm going to change up my installation to ape that--the door panels barely seat with how I have them on now, and there's no way they'l seat with an MLV barrier in there too.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

One thing to note about turn-on circuits... Most head units are not meant to trigger multiple amps. Triggering 1 amp is fine, but when I'm running 2 amps or more, I run a single wire from the h/u turn-on circuit to a relay and trigger the amps from the relay. It might be overkill (for 2 amps), but you can easily overload the trigger circuit in a h/u.

 

[gamefreakgc]

One thing to note about turn-on circuits... Most head units are not meant to trigger multiple amps. Triggering 1 amp is fine, but when I'm running 2 amps or more, I run a single wire from the h/u turn-on circuit to a relay and trigger the amps from the relay. It might be overkill (for 2 amps), but you can easily overload the trigger circuit in a h/u.

Good to know. What's a symptom of overloading the head unit?

I'm hoping that since the sub I ordered does not use the remote wire but instead senses audio signal from the RCA's I can avoid an issue like that.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I've never overloaded a turn-on circuit, so I can't tell you for sure. However, I believe it would burn out that circuit and it would no longer work. If the sub senses the audio signal, then you don't need to worry about it for that amp. I only mention it if you are building a multi-amp system, or if you are using the h/u turn-on circuit to turn on other things... cooling fans, lights, video displays, etc.

 

[Unner]

Alpine head units specifically say to run additional power for the heads unit. You can still use the ACC wire to trigger the head unit on but run new power and ground. Be sure to include a basic fuse. I would use 12G wire for the head unit.

You don't have to do this but if you have it all pulled apart this is the best way to do it right.

Thanks for the informative answer, I'll keep all this in mind. I'll hopefully be doing sound deadening and speaker/amp here some time in the near future.

 

[BrianSD_42]

The real reason I originally ran all new speaker wiring, power and ground when I installed my new system was to prevent speaker RPM whine. Well that and because when I upgraded from 22W onboard head unit to a full 45W x 4 RMS Alpine amp I wanted the proper wiring to be in place.

Btw running all new wiring and using clean high quality grounds you will near guaranteed not get speaker whine.

 

[jeremyc74]

The real reason I originally ran all new speaker wiring, power and ground when I installed my new system was to prevent speaker RPM whine. Well that and because when I upgraded from 22W onboard head unit to a full 45W x 4 RMS Alpine amp I wanted the proper wiring to be in place.

Btw running all new wiring and using clean high quality grounds you will near guaranteed not get speaker whine.

You can skip the speaker wire when it comes to alternator whine. That's coming in on the pre-amp side, or due to bad grounding at the amp or head unit. The only way speaker wire would help would be if you were going to something shielded, but it's not necessary because the current levels there are too high for induced noise to matter, and there generally aren't power cables laying parallel to the speaker wires over long distances to create it.

In a lot of cases the culprit for alternator whine is a bad diode in the alternator creating high A/C ripple, but even then if all the connections between the battery and alternator are solid most of that will be filtered out by the battery.

 

[stir_fry_boy]

I'd say anything over 20W RMS (basically any separate amp) then yes upgrade the speaker wire. It really isn't that hard to run along the edge of the carpet.

I'd also run new (+) and (-) from the battery to the head unit.

I disagree with anything over 20W needing to run new wire. I have at least 75W if not 150W RMS running to each speaker without issues, and my Kappas sound amazing. I have talked with more audio shops than I can count and they all told me it's not worth replacing the speaker wire from the center console to each speaker. The OE wires are sufficient to handle the power you need.

Good speakers have a capacitor to prevent alternator whine in the speakers. To avoid alternator whine, make sure you have a good ground on the amp (measure with multimeter). I have no issues with my setup whatsoever.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Running the wire 10 feet at 120W the chart (not sure of the author) says use 14G speaker wire.

I used 14G because I prefer to be well over on the safe side.

I'm not saying you guys should change your systems but if you are doing this from scratch it only makes sense to run new wiring because it is easy and cheap.