Thinking About Upgrading Your Sound System? Do It!

[UnderFire]

Running the wire 10 feet at 120W the chart (not sure of the author) says use 14G speaker wire.

I used 14G because I prefer to be well over on the safe side.

I'm not saying you guys should change your systems but if you are doing this from scratch it only makes sense to run new wiring because it is easy and cheap.

I definitely agree with you that when you install any kind of amp, you should run new speaker wire, the stock wire is like 20ga realistically, I ran some solid 12ga to the mids and 16ga to the tweeters.

But, I'm pretty sure that chart is for the actual power wire for the amp (or any other 12V system really), the speaker wire has AC current flowing through it with a varying voltage, so that chart is pretty much irrelevant in that sense.

 

[BrianSD_42]

That's a great point.

 

[0xfded]

So where are you guys mounting these little 4-channel amps for your speakers? I was poking around inside dash, and in my '98 there's a bunch of stuff packed in there: airbag sensor controller, ABS sensor, antennae relay, et cetera.

My second DIN slot is in use, or that'd be the obvious choice. Feels like the HU goes back far enough that I can't mount it straight behind either.

Best choice seems to be to sit it on top of the airbag sensor controller, but clearly that's not a hard-mounting location...

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I disagree with anything over 20W needing to run new wire. I have at least 75W if not 150W RMS running to each speaker without issues, and my Kappas sound amazing. I have talked with more audio shops than I can count and they all told me it's not worth replacing the speaker wire from the center console to each speaker. The OE wires are sufficient to handle the power you need.

Good speakers have a capacitor to prevent alternator whine in the speakers. To avoid alternator whine, make sure you have a good ground on the amp (measure with multimeter). I have no issues with my setup whatsoever.

Here's my thoughts... Using an amp of 20 watts per channel... eh, upgrading the speaker wire is borderline. Me? I'd do it (probably) because I do overkill stuff, so I'd agree with Brian but it's not critical, if I'm honest in my opinion. The deal with factory wire and factory head units, vs. aftermarket... When the factory tells you 30wattsx4, it's really 5wattsx4. When an external amp tells you 20wattsx2, it's really 19wattsx2 (get my drift?). Upgrading the SPEAKER wire for 20x2 is ok, but not necessary. If you have an amp of 40 watts per channel, I'm upgrading speaker wires.
Now... 12V wires into the head unit... I'm reluctant to upgrade the input to the h/u. If I'm using h/u power, I'm already compromising my sound quality. Not only that, but if I care about sound, I've upgraded my speakers and I've probably upgraded my amp for the front channels. Therefore, my h/u is only running the rear speakers, and I don't care much about them. That's my viewpoint

As far as alternator whine... it can be due to grounding issues and it can be due to power wires run next to audio wires. In home installations, there are other problems, but I'm not going there now.

FYI, I'm drunk now, so I might take all this back tomorrow

** None of the opinions expressed in this thread are wrong. We are all aiming for a system built with money put towards the IDEAL place to increase appreciation of the listening experience. I make my recommendations based on saving money in certain areas, in order to put money into other areas that will have a greater impact in the final audio output quality.

 

[fblainen11]

So where are you guys mounting these little 4-channel amps for your speakers? I was poking around inside dash, and in my '98 there's a bunch of stuff packed in there: airbag sensor controller, ABS sensor, antennae relay, et cetera.

My second DIN slot is in use, or that'd be the obvious choice. Feels like the HU goes back far enough that I can't mount it straight behind either.

Best choice seems to be to sit it on top of the airbag sensor controller, but clearly that's not a hard-mounting location...

The amp is very small. Mine is sitting below my radio and the small tray below my radio.

 

[limpmode]

thanks for the write up. will come in handy

 

[0xfded]

The amp is very small. Mine is sitting below my radio and the small tray below my radio.

Yep, I've got a cardboard cutout that I'm using to size mine--nice and small. But the slot below my radio is in use, so I can't go that route.

Heard of some people mounting them in other places, like behind the glove compartment. Going to see what kind of space I can clear out of there tonight... I'm pretty sure that antenna relay can go, and some wiring can be tidied up.

 

[fblainen11]

Hope that helps. Mine isn't "mounted", just sitting in there nice and cozy like.

Also note, the screw in the middle of the photo all the way to the left is a great spot for your ground. I first tried grounding to the shift selector mount screws and was only getting 6V which is not enough to trip the relay in the amp to turn on. Just a fair warning....I spent too much time troubleshooting to figure out this was the problem. I did convince my wife to let me get a new and decent volt meter though.

Also, note this is in the middle of getting everything completed and is not an actual representation of what it looks like. I have everything organized and tucked away very neatly.... It's just messy in this photo.

 

[SST221]

Love this set up, also have 2 10's w/400 watt kenwood amp. I didn't run new wire, just chose not to. I knew it would sound just fine without. However I do agree it could sound better with new wire. I did run dedicated 12 gauge power from battery to head and amp, fused of course!

 

[fblainen11]

That looks like a nice setup man. I am more a fan of pioneer and kenwood., but all are good brands and you really can't go wrong. I have coaxial Infinity speakers in the fronts and will likely go with 6.5 components in the back....it will take a little work to get them fitted, but I did see another thread about it and didn't seem too difficult. Just need to get a little time....oh so precious time.

I used to have 2 infinity 10s and if I decide to go with subs again I'll go with infinity. Where do you have your subs located?

 

[SST221]

I used to have 2 infinity 10s and if I decide to go with subs again I'll go with infinity. Where do you have your subs located?

There right behind the rear seat in a box.

 

[fblainen11]

I disagree with anything over 20W needing to run new wire. I have at least 75W if not 150W RMS running to each speaker without issues, and my Kappas sound amazing. I have talked with more audio shops than I can count and they all told me it's not worth replacing the speaker wire from the center console to each speaker. The OE wires are sufficient to handle the power you need.

Good speakers have a capacitor to prevent alternator whine in the speakers. To avoid alternator whine, make sure you have a good ground on the amp (measure with multimeter). I have no issues with my setup whatsoever.

My older brother is a mechanical engineer (I know, not electrical, but smart enough). He did car audio professionally in college for 3 years and has installed many many complete systems for himself, friends, family, and me.
When I was doing my upgrade he specifically said there is no reason to upgrade wire unless you are doing a really high end install especially on Toyotas. He stated that typically Toyotas wiring is above average and reliable.
He said if I did change it I MAY get a negligible improvement, but that negligible is the key word: I would not at all be able to hear a difference.
I did not replace my wire and it sounds fine.

 

[0xfded]

fblainen11> Much appreciated. I seem to have some more junk packed in there than you do, but I'm going to see what I can do.

Those Infinity 6030cs' are what I'm running up front. Not one complaint about them.

Think I'm going to run new 16ga wire when my 4-channel arrives, mainly for the sheer hell of it and knowing exactly how things are set up.

 

[BrianSD_42]

The other I recall any I ran all new wiring was because my new amp went under the seat and the factory wiring is behind the dash. I didn't want to splice it together so I just ran all new.

 

[jeremyc74]

My older brother is a mechanical engineer (I know, not electrical, but smart enough). He did car audio professionally in college for 3 years and has installed many many complete systems for himself, friends, family, and me.
When I was doing my upgrade he specifically said there is no reason to upgrade wire unless you are doing a really high end install especially on Toyotas. He stated that typically Toyotas wiring is above average and reliable.
He said if I did change it I MAY get a negligible improvement, but that negligible is the key word: I would not at all be able to hear a difference.
I did not replace my wire and it sounds fine.

I am an electrical engineer, and he's right.

If you do the math a system using 4ohm speakers and 75W per channel is going to be seeing a little over 4.5Amps flowing through the wire at high volumes. Even if you're seeing double that during peaks that's well within the acceptable current range for the ~18AWG wire that's used from the factory.

There are going to be slight benefits to sound quality by upgrading to larger wire because of the effects on overall impedance characteristics of the system, but we're starting to get into audiophile territory then, and "quality" becomes a matter of huge debate. The law of diminishing returns comes into play pretty quickly when it comes to speaker wire at these power levels.

Now, for a sub, you do want to use a heavier wire. A good sub amp is capable of much higher current than you'll see on smaller speakers. This has to do with the dampening factor, which is basically a measure of how well the amp can keep the motor (speaker coil) under control.

 

[ridefast]

Ok you got me, I've had this HU and mini amp in my shopping cart for days. Im ordering.
But First...

I do have a 10' Alpine sub and 500 watt amp sittin in the garage. Can someone make a recommendation on a amp wiring kit?

I do have an inline fuse I can install so no worries on that.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003GFYPYS...TF8&colid=2DS4AB428LVTH&coliid=I223P34L9N07Y1

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002VM8RU...lid=2DS4AB428LVTH&coliid=I2VH0QAH6P2TYT&psc=1

 

[fblainen11]

I went with the boss 10 gauge for my small amp. It was fine. I soldered all of my connections anyway, but it worked fine and I'm happy with the results.

 

[Skinfaxi]

I just dropped a wad on a new HU, I missed my pioneer and the budget allowed it so I picked up an AVH-X5700BHS. We will see how I like it, It wasn't cheap so I better like it lol.

AVH-X5700BHS - <b>NEW!</b> - DVD Receiver with 7" Motorized Display, Bluetooth®, Siri® Eyes Free, SiriusXM-Ready?, HD Radio?, Android? Music Support, Pandora®, and Dual Camera Inputs | Pioneer Electronics USA

Let me know what you think of bluetooth performance. I have the same unit, and if my phone is in my pocket, the BT audio will cut out. If I put the phone in the cupholder, it's fine. The local pioneer service center said there's nothing they can do, it's working correctly.

 

[gamefreakgc]

So where are you guys mounting these little 4-channel amps for your speakers? I was poking around inside dash, and in my '98 there's a bunch of stuff packed in there: airbag sensor controller, ABS sensor, antennae relay, et cetera.

My second DIN slot is in use, or that'd be the obvious choice. Feels like the HU goes back far enough that I can't mount it straight behind either.

Best choice seems to be to sit it on top of the airbag sensor controller, but clearly that's not a hard-mounting location...

I don't have a photo... it was late when I was installing it and just wanted to get it done. The Alpine amp is just a hair too long to fit in parallel with the storage slot, so what I did was insert it into the dash halfway and zip-tied it to the bottom of the head unit. I did space it out with a little foam though to prevent direct contact. Was this the best way to install? No. I didn't have enough room at the bottom like in the photo above and did not have time to put it behind the glove box. But it doesn't rattle, doesn't overheat and works fine so I'm leaving it there.

Ok you got me, I've had this HU and mini amp in my shopping cart for days. Im ordering.
But First...

I do have a 10' Alpine sub and 500 watt amp sittin in the garage. Can someone make a recommendation on a amp wiring kit?

I do have an inline fuse I can install so no worries on that.

Amazon.com: Monster BAIP-650 Standard 650 Watt Car Amp Kit: Electronics

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002VM8RU...lid=2DS4AB428LVTH&coliid=I2VH0QAH6P2TYT&psc=1

I went with a wiring kit from Crutchfield, since I want to be sure my amp has no interference and has solid wiring that will last a long time. They don't sell any sub-par products.

EFX PA8BX Wiring Kit 8-gauge amplifier wiring kit ? includes 2-channel patch cable at Crutchfield.com

Just got it yesterday and looks perfect. Good quality connections that should last a long time and the wiring is SOLID COPPER. I can't tell you how much wire I've seen that's not solid copper, just copper coated lead.

To touch on what others have already said, I didn't upgrade the speaker wires because the Toyota wiring looked top notch. Nothing wrong there.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Ok you got me, I've had this HU and mini amp in my shopping cart for days. Im ordering.
But First...

I do have a 10' Alpine sub and 500 watt amp sittin in the garage. Can someone make a recommendation on a amp wiring kit?

I do have an inline fuse I can install so no worries on that.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003GFYPYS...TF8&colid=2DS4AB428LVTH&coliid=I223P34L9N07Y1

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002VM8RU...lid=2DS4AB428LVTH&coliid=I2VH0QAH6P2TYT&psc=1

I'll tell you what I have used in the past... KnuKonceptz. I have used their speaker wire and power wire. The prices were decent and the quality is good.