So I went to High Country 4x4 here in Denver to see about a leveling kit. Aside from the 800 price tag, one thing disturbed me and want to see what you think. Essentially, he told me that the ball joint will most likely need to be repaired in 60k miles vs. 100k miles. I'm a noob but WTF? Is this true?
Thoughts- 2015 Leveling Kit
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The kit was about 230.00'ish. he showed me several but it was a 3 in the front and a 1.5 in the rear. Daystar and I think ToyTec. Admittedly, there aren't too many options yet for 2015's. I have a Limited. I'm not too concerned on price unless that's a little crazy, but they said about 3 hours PLUS the alignment. I'm a little more concerned about the ball joint thing.
Jhalko
New member
I can't answer on the ball joint but [MENTION=81322]barryhiram[/MENTION] put a spacer kit in his limited and he might know as I thought he went ahead and changed out his Upper Control Arms and maybe that was why.
If you don't plan on much off-roading that kit is probably fine, if you do plan more offroading, save the money and wait for the full suspension, it does make a huge difference off-road and onroad is still good. Really depends on what your usage will be though.
HC is not cheap but they do good work.
Edit: I bought from Toytec then had HC do install, 2015 shouldn't be any different than 2014.
If you don't plan on much off-roading that kit is probably fine, if you do plan more offroading, save the money and wait for the full suspension, it does make a huge difference off-road and onroad is still good. Really depends on what your usage will be though.
HC is not cheap but they do good work.
Edit: I bought from Toytec then had HC do install, 2015 shouldn't be any different than 2014.
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89FourRunner
New member
Your mechanic/installer is correct. The kit he is referring to most likely doesnt account for the increased pressure on the ball joints, it simply spaces the strut, puts the 4runner on its tip toes, and creates poor angles for the ball joints, cv axles, and steering components. This significantly decreases the life of the front end. It arguably makes the truck less capable, its not as though you are adding more articulation, you are actually getting less because a leveling kit uses the available travel to create the lift. Is the vehicle anymore capable offroad? Doubtful.
Talk to that installer/mechanic about installing a full lift kit that addresses everything.
Otherwise stay stock - the vehicle will remain reliable and be just as capable.
What does a couple inches on front end lift do for your clearance at the lowest point really? Gets it over a rock thats 1.5" taller? Not worth it.
Talk to that installer/mechanic about installing a full lift kit that addresses everything.
Otherwise stay stock - the vehicle will remain reliable and be just as capable.
What does a couple inches on front end lift do for your clearance at the lowest point really? Gets it over a rock thats 1.5" taller? Not worth it.
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Jhalko
New member
Honestly the cost for labor and alignment I paid wasn't much different then what they are charging you. I was completely taking out the Xreas shocks and replacing it all and it's probably not much different in labor hours than your job.
Before you drop that money have you figured out how you plan to use your truck? The quote for a full lift is about right but it is night and day difference depending on whether you plan to take it offroad much. The comments about being capable stock are correct, the thing you (and I) face are the lower hanging bumpers and rockers (compared to sr5/trail) so offroad you are much more likely to drag them on a LE.
You were probably looking at this kit:
3" lift / leveling kit for FJ & 4Runner
I have something similar (but slightly different) to this:
BOSS Suspension System for 10+ 4Runner and FJ
For reference I did do some easy trails in Moab in stock form as well as after I got rid of the stock 20" wheels. A bit of a harsh ride, but quite capable. The onroad ride of Xreas is excellent...
Before you drop that money have you figured out how you plan to use your truck? The quote for a full lift is about right but it is night and day difference depending on whether you plan to take it offroad much. The comments about being capable stock are correct, the thing you (and I) face are the lower hanging bumpers and rockers (compared to sr5/trail) so offroad you are much more likely to drag them on a LE.
You were probably looking at this kit:
3" lift / leveling kit for FJ & 4Runner
I have something similar (but slightly different) to this:
BOSS Suspension System for 10+ 4Runner and FJ
For reference I did do some easy trails in Moab in stock form as well as after I got rid of the stock 20" wheels. A bit of a harsh ride, but quite capable. The onroad ride of Xreas is excellent...
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Jetboy
New member
In general I agree that lift without larger tires is usually pointless. On my trail rig I'm looking at re-working the suspension to get back down to only 2-3" lift and 40" tires - but I also don't have any of the body clearance issues because the tires alone give me so much greater clearance both axle and body height.
In this case the 150 is pretty darn low as a starting point. 1.5" can make a big difference when the rock is 1" too high. Or the snow is too deep. etc. The 5th gen 4runners are low riders. The belly is very low stock compared to earlier models so where you might get by pretty easily in a 3rd gen, the 5th is going to drag a lot. Probably 3-4" less belly pan clearance plus a longer wheel base means lots of breakover drag. On trails where my 3rd gen with the same tires wouldn't touch a thing my 5th gen uses the sliders like they're part of the drivetrain.
Most leveling kits are spacers above the strut - so the travel is relatively unchanged(there's some difference due to the change in angle and lever arm motion, but it's negligible in this case). It simply starts at a different point in the range. The 150 chassis starts pretty much level with the a-arms and has potential for significantly more down travel from the stock position than the earlier IFS versions. The droop is limited by the strut and it has 2-3" more down travel available than stock, so it's not meaningfully changing the travel. Just altering the starting point a bit.
That said - I would not do a 3" spacer myself and have never used spacers on my own junk. While you might keep stock travel, you give up a lot of travel you could have with a full suspension system. The limited travel of the stock coils is one really good reason to go with other options. Add upper a-arms and you can do a lot better in both travel and ride quality.
You all have been very helpful thank you.' Here's the use case for me. I put on 20" addicts with 275/55/60 grapplers and there's some rubbing. I did do some trimming and it's ok( still a little bit). I didn't lift my previous 2010 but with this new one Im considering. Now,l. I have to say that the ride of my 2015 is pretty damn great compared to my 2010 and I really don't want to lose that by doing a lift. Hence the hesitation. Am I going to lose that that by doing lifting him? (It's a him because my boys names it Ironhide-btw)
Jhalko
New member
There are folks on this site that will tell you they notice a 2psi difference in tire pressure, and others that barely notice an LT with E load sidewalls. A lot of subjectivity here...
My opinion was that when I lifted and removed Xreas my low speed and highway speed handling did not suffer, I did however notice more mid speed body roll. I'm talking 35-45mph curves on side roads, it's not much but there. You have a higher center of gravity so that does contribute. Since I didn't do spacers I can't tell you how those change the ride but comments on here have been very positive towards retaining stock ride. One thing to keep in mind, yes you can lift 2.5" without replacing the upper control arms (3" you would for sure want them), but after alignment you may not like the highway ride (like I70 speeds) it will not be quite as stable, it'll feel a tad more twitchy. I didn't get the UCA's when I lifted and it doesn't need them, but I do notice it on the highway at speed. I will get the new UCA's this summer when I get around to it, it'll add more caster and bring it back where it should be, HC did a great job on alignment though so I've not really been in a rush.
These are all on road comments and you can see my setup in my sig, every one will be a little different, I have started offroading more than I expected so I was glad I went with the full suspension replacement. It's good to plan for down the road to avoid extra cost.
Keep an eye out for me on 470 and HR, I drive through almost daily!
My opinion was that when I lifted and removed Xreas my low speed and highway speed handling did not suffer, I did however notice more mid speed body roll. I'm talking 35-45mph curves on side roads, it's not much but there. You have a higher center of gravity so that does contribute. Since I didn't do spacers I can't tell you how those change the ride but comments on here have been very positive towards retaining stock ride. One thing to keep in mind, yes you can lift 2.5" without replacing the upper control arms (3" you would for sure want them), but after alignment you may not like the highway ride (like I70 speeds) it will not be quite as stable, it'll feel a tad more twitchy. I didn't get the UCA's when I lifted and it doesn't need them, but I do notice it on the highway at speed. I will get the new UCA's this summer when I get around to it, it'll add more caster and bring it back where it should be, HC did a great job on alignment though so I've not really been in a rush.
These are all on road comments and you can see my setup in my sig, every one will be a little different, I have started offroading more than I expected so I was glad I went with the full suspension replacement. It's good to plan for down the road to avoid extra cost.
Keep an eye out for me on 470 and HR, I drive through almost daily!
barryhiram
New member
Thanks for the mention Jhalko, ball joint angle was not why I replaced UCA's, on full droop, factory control arms would hit spring. That definitely will cause additional stress on upper BJ's. The other reason for UCA replacement was to set caster to +4 during alignment, couldn't come close with factory CA's.
My decision to go a spacer kit was due to gaining additional clearance for the 285's. Others refer to my SR5 as a "mall crawler" which I take offence too :fencing:, I like to think of it as a "toy hauler" ...... ha-ha-ha, we have 4 wheelers to rock crawl and get muddy with! Both have serious suspension mods!!!
I can confirm stock ride quality has remained exactly the same as all you've done is raised the vehicle, you haven't changed spring or shock rates. As you pointed out, it all depends on your intended use "if you do plan more offroading, save the money and wait for the full suspension"
I have a 2015....if i do a level kit on both front and back to model a 3 in lift will my truck be fine with just that? Most off roading ill do in on the beach...can you reccomend good level kits that do both front and rear?
barryhiram
New member
Hi Liana2015,
Sorry I haven't responded sooner, been travelling for work :tape2:
Why do you need a lift kit? Do you really need 3 inches front and rear? What size tires are you or planning on running? How much are you willing to spend $$$$? Will you be doing more extensive off roading in the future? Not trying to be an a-hole here, but these questions need to be answered in order to develop a proper plan.
Tough to recommend any one kit, but there are several great ones. For me I started with Daystar (spacer kit) 2.5" front, 1.5" rear. It was inexpensive, gave me the lift needed to fit 285's, which worked fine once UCA's and rear shocks were replaced.
3 years later, Bilstein releases the 6112's, well, after following the below thread I had to get me some! Current setup is 6112's (set to 4th notch), rear are 5160's retaining Daystar spacer. Lift is still 2.5" front, 1.5" rear, but the ride is SO much better!!!!! Better control over bumps, and ride is smoother than stock!!!!! Worth every penny!!!!
If you require 3 inches upfront, moving to 5th notch would give you 3". For the rear check out what sigbrown1297 did, he changed out the rear springs with SAW http://www.toyota-4runner.org/1965650-post178.html
I checked out sig brown and do like that however Id add a level kit to mine. Price wise, how much do these bilstein cost and is there a cheaper alternative?
Thanks
Thank you so much, Ill be buying the shocks and daystar 2.5 front level kit. I appreciate your help
jwkilgore
New member
My understanding is that the Bilstein front shocks are adjustable. You can shift the spring up the shock body for all the lift you will need.
No need for the spacer, and including it will reduce your wheel travel.
barryhiram
New member
You are correct jwkilgore, 6112's are adjustable up to 3 inches of lift, no need for front spacers.
The rear is a different story, you will need either Daystar's 1.5" coil spring spacer or replacement springs like mentioned before. Would also recommend Bilsein 5160 rear shocks, they are perfectly matched to the 6112's.
You are welcome sir!
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