Time to beat the KDSS-Horse

[alphabeast]

The problem is nobody wants to F up and have a $3K repair bill just because they turned a bleed screw too much.

The reality of it is it's a simple circuit, but there are very few people out there who know enough to be confident in making the adjustments, and that includes the dealers. In addition to that, I could do a detailed write up with incredible documentation and photos and I guarantee you that someone would still screw it up when performing the procedure. Would I do it? Absolutely, but I am an engineer used to doing testing and troubleshooting and adjusting on multi million dollar machines. Asking an accountant with a crescent wrench and four beers into a six pack on a Saturday afternoon in his driveway do this correctly is asking for disappointment.

Remember that the dealers, even Lexus dealers, hardly ever mess with KDSS because A)They seldom break and B)The people who modify their suspensions with KDSS are unicorns. Sure, on this forum there are maybe 50 or so in three years but compare it to the 100K 4Runners sold a year and they are rare. Reading this forum skews reality. We are all enthusiasts and sometimes it's hard to remember that everybody doesn't modify the crap out of their 4Runners. The truth is hardly anyone does. It's like the Trail Edition 4Runner... reading this forum you would think that Trails make up 60% of sales. The reality is Trails make up around 7% of sales and KDSS equipped 4Runners make up less than half of the 7% overall. So to think that there would be experts at every dealer on KDSS is a little absurd. Right now our local dealer, who sells an average of 15 4Runners a month, has around 200 vehicles on the lot. He has three 4Runners. He seldom gets a Trail with KDSS. Very few modify any 4Runner and even fewer modify the KDSS equipped 4Runner. It is akin to being a #2 screw thread specialist.

Being a #3 screw thread specialist, I take exception to this.

 

[alphabeast]

I am a Trail w/ KDSS owner and will be installing a lift myself soon because:

- This forum has more then enough information for me to perform the install even with my limited auto mechanic skills.
- In my area, no dealer will do a lift (let alone one with KDSS) and there are very few installers who would do it either. Even if a local installer would take it on, I doubt they would have the knowledge that I have gained (through this forum) to deal with the specifics of the 4runner (with or without KDSS).
- I also understand the calculated risks involved with doing it myself, and I am ok with that

 

[wfo9]

Right but that's the point I'm trying to make. If some get it, and some don't ... something is done different. The whole "deal with it" may be something we could prevent if we could figure out what difference there was in hardware, or installation, or something between those that get it and those that don't. I understand correlation doesn't imply causation, but more often then not there is a differing variable that can be reproduced to cause a result - in this case the lean. Is it a big deal that there's a little lean? No not really. But it really tickles my curiosity...

The lean is hit or miss. and usually not that bad from my experience.

If you have adjustable coil overs you can usually mitigate it enough to not notice it. If it is really bad.. You may have to put a spacer on the rear passenger side.

With a non-KDSS truck, they will typically lean toward the drivers side until you make adjustments. This seems logical, since the gas tank is on that side. But... The KDSS lean is always towards the passenger side.

I don't think it has anything to do with the install procedure... I've seen it show up after a year or two after the lift is installed.

I would not let this issue stop you from installing a lift. It is not that big of a deal and there are solutions. First step is always the tilt calibration (or some extreme offroad flexing). Sometimes that resolves it.. but in some cases it will keep coming back and in those cases some type of spring adjustments are necessary (depending on how anal you are).

I put the KDSS lean in the same category as alignment. Some trucks just cooperate without any fuss, others just fight you to the bitter end. Same with the wheel shake. Unfortunately, these things are not as uniform as one would think.

But the KDSS lean is a pretty easy one compared to the other curve balls these can throw at you. I would not be very concerned about it if you are the type willing to do your own wrenching. Just do it and resolve it... if it happens. Not that big of a deal. But I'm sure you can understand why many shops don't want to mess with it.... It is a Unicorn to them.

 

[1engineer]

The lean is hit or miss. and usually not that bad from my experience.

If you have adjustable coil overs you can usually mitigate it enough to not notice it. If it is really bad.. You may have to put a spacer on the rear passenger side.

With a non-KDSS truck, they will typically lean toward the drivers side until you make adjustments. This seems logical, since the gas tank is on that side. But... The KDSS lean is always towards the passenger side.

I don't think it has anything to do with the install procedure... I've seen it show up after a year or two after the lift is installed.

I would not let this issue stop you from installing a lift. It is not that big of a deal and there are solutions. First step is always the tilt calibration (or some extreme offroad flexing). Sometimes that resolves it.. but in some cases it will keep coming back and in those cases some type of spring adjustments are necessary (depending on how anal you are).

I put the KDSS lean in the same category as alignment. Some trucks just cooperate without any fuss, others just fight you to the bitter end. Same with the wheel shake. Unfortunately, these things are not as uniform as one would think.

But the KDSS lean is a pretty easy one compared to the other curve balls these can throw at you. I would not be very concerned about it if you are the type willing to do your own wrenching. Just do it and resolve it... if it happens. Not that big of a deal. But you can understand why shops don't want to mess with it....

Exactly. People seem to think vehicles are some cookie cutter machines but don't realize that when you put 5,000 parts together to make an assembly you are bound to have variations.

 

[The Waco Kid]

Asking an accountant with a crescent wrench and four beers into a six pack on a Saturday afternoon in his driveway do this correctly is asking for disappointment.

That hit incredibly close to home.. haha :yield:


Doesn't make it any less true though! :tea:

 

[Brandonium]

I'd like to think that I could follow accurate instructions.. and I really don't drink if I know I need to be on my game so perhaps I would survive the ordeal.

That hit incredibly close to home.. haha :yield:


Doesn't make it any less true though! :tea:

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

FWIW My KDSS lean has reduced significantly over 65K miles. When new, the lean was pretty bad. Today she sits flat most of the time.

 

[The Waco Kid]

I'd like to think that I could follow accurate instructions.. and I really don't drink if I know I need to be on my game so perhaps I would survive the ordeal.

I was just being humorous. 1e was just using an example, while a bit exaggerated, there is significant truth to it. Someone who may have more guts than skill would likely find a way to mess it up.

It's funny because it's pretty much me he was describing, minus the beer. I drink but not while around machinery. Grew up with an electrician/woodworking hobbyist father...needless to say, I was educated on the hazards of mixing the two.

That said, I've been around machinery enough to be comfortable tackling something like this provided I had the tools and the right guide to follow/educate myself beforehand. Suspension work and small motors maintenance run through my blood thanks to years of being my own pit crew during my enduro/harescramble days.

 

[Mariner]

When you all are referencing "lift," where exactly are you placing that benchmark? I have a 2016 Trail with KDSS and I'm just hoping to throw in some Bilsteins, either 5100s around or 6112/5160s to get my trail leveled out a bit more than it is now. Should I assume the dealer will give me a hard time about that, even while using Toyota products?

 

[1engineer]

When you all are referencing "lift," where exactly are you placing that benchmark? I have a 2016 Trail with KDSS and I'm just hoping to throw in some Bilsteins, either 5100s around or 6112/5160s to get my trail leveled out a bit more than it is now. Should I assume the dealer will give me a hard time about that, even while using Toyota products?

No they won't but when you level you need to think what you haul around. Put a few adults in the back seat and you will now be nose high. Re aiming your headlights is needed too. I haul too much stuff all the time to do that.

 

[Mariner]

No they won't but when you level you need to think what you haul around. Put a few adults in the back seat and you will now be nose high. Re aiming your headlights is needed too. I haul too much stuff all the time to do that.

Thank you for the insight. I would be okay with a small amount of rake I suppose, but I only haul around my dogs at the moment. But even then, with that little bit of rake still, it would help me in future circumstances. I'll definitely adjust my headlights if needed, as I hate blinding people on the road.