Tire companies

[Sputnik]

Have you guys noticed tires companies like town fair tire often won't rotate your tire, or plug a hole in the tire for you because of not enough tread on the tire?
I understand it's for yours and their safety, they are taking pre cautions, but it's getting ridiculous.


This is the second time for me this year...


I had a nail in my brand new Toyo Open country tires, and the first place I went to said they won't do it because it was too close to the side and might blow out.
It was no where near the side, it was about at the 3/4 mark...

Had to blow off some steam.

 

[thebwlife]

Take it to a mom and pop shop.

 

[Sungod]

It has gotten ridiculous. Obviously they sell more tires by saying they can't fix it. They hide behind the "legal reason" which is nonsense. Mom and pop shops are the best option. I had an issue with BJs that they said that they couldn't fix it because it was in the sidewall. They pointed to a hole in the outside tread block. I said "that is not the sidewall, that is the tread". They pulled out some book that they use as their justification. I went to a local tire dealer and paid $20 and had it fixed.

 

[1engineer]

If I owned a tire shop I would not plug a tire unless it was comfortably in the tread either. Too many consumers are sue-happy and this is a lawsuit waiting to happen. If I want a tire plugged and can't get someone to plug it then I buy a kit and do it myself. It has been awhile though. I don't blame the shops, I blame the real source which is us.
It's always easier to blame someone else, in this case the tire shop, than it is to accept the fact that we are the cause.

 

[Canazes9]

Fix it yourself. I know the plug kits aren't supposed to be as good as the tire shop fixes, but after 30+ years I still can't tell the difference. Theoretically a plugged tire has more chance of having a belt separate/break, but I've only had 1 do that from dozen's of plugs over the years.

David

 

[lilreds21]

I know where I live if you plug a tire or even "touch" a tire that it's deemed unsafe you then become liable... this is why there are safety margins... always always buy the certificates then they don't "get you" for a new tire.

 

[Canazes9]

I know where I live if you plug a tire or even "touch" a tire that it's deemed unsafe you then become liable... this is why there are safety margins... always always buy the certificates then they don't "get you" for a new tire.

How exactly do you "become liable"? Have a link?

What certificate? Are you referring to road hazard?

David

 

[NoDak]

i thought tire shops dont use plugs any more. the one i goto takes the tire off the rim and glues a square patch on the inside, remounts it.

they do this to make more money per repair for the same amount of materials.

 

[nevada]

i thought tire shops dont use plugs any more. the one i goto takes the tire off the rim and glues a square patch on the inside, remounts it.

they do this to make more money per repair for the same amount of materials.

they wont, not for a standard repair/tire.

road going tires should be repaired correctly, from the inside.

a plug really should only be used to GET you to a tire shop for a correct repair.

when I was busting tires, I repaired quite a few there were on the edge of the tread. the only real concern is that the patch works loose, and it leaks again. a failed patch doesn't mean the tire is going to explode.

as far as I can remember, in the almost 4 years I did it, we never had any come back.

there is a liability there for sure, but its not nearly as bad as some think. as has been suggested go to a smaller shop, they will do more for you, and treat you better.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

My son got a nail in relatively new BFG mud terrain right at the edge of the tread. I told him it would be fine to plug it and should not be a problem. About a month latter the tire blew kind of violently. It had two 6 inch slits in the side wall, one being where the nail was. Luckily he was just driving around town when it happened.

 

[eddiebx]

It has gotten ridiculous. Obviously they sell more tires by saying they can't fix it. They hide behind the "legal reason" which is nonsense. Mom and pop shops are the best option. I had an issue with BJs that they said that they couldn't fix it because it was in the sidewall. They pointed to a hole in the outside tread block. I said "that is not the sidewall, that is the tread". They pulled out some book that they use as their justification. I went to a local tire dealer and paid $20 and had it fixed.

I dunno if I would exactly call them be ridiculous for following recommendations from a higher order. You can argue what is a repairable tread block all you want; but just because it looks like a repairable tread, works like a repairable tread, does not mean it is a repairable tread (according to RMA), lol.

The Rubber Manufacturer's Association makes it pretty clear cut on what can or cannot be patched, and the outer tread blocks are not part of it, plain and simple. See below:

If you're curious, here's a link to how they recommend tires to be patched: http://www.rma.org/wp-content/uploads/prp_wallchart1111.pdf

If I understand correctly, these are the guys that pretty much develop the safety standards for all the tires on the road today here in the US, so it's kind of hard to argue with their guidelines from a legal standpoint.

I am pretty sure BJs is not in it just to make an extra buck by pushing a new tire; probably much more likely that BJs on a corporate level does not want to deal with the legal consequences (like most larger chain tire shops).

Kind of sucks that we live in the world where everyone sues at the drop of a hat, so if anything we have our peers to blame as well.

With that said, if you do plan to patch a hole that far out in to the shoulder I highly recommend one of these mushroom style plugs:

Patches at the shoulder go through a lot of more flexing and stress I think, and you really need all the surface area you can get when sticking it on. I've had pretty good luck with these type of plugs with holes right at the edge of the shoulder.

Not stating that this is right or wrong, just stating that it works for me, but your mileage may vary :cheers:

 

[eddiebx]

My son got a nail in relatively new BFG mud terrain right at the edge of the tread. I told him it would be fine to plug it and should not be a problem. About a month latter the tire blew kind of violently. It had two 6 inch slits in the side wall, one being where the nail was. Luckily he was just driving around town when it happened.

Out of curiosity, did your son drive on the tire while it was flat for a little while, or was it plugged before going flat? Driving on a flat for any amount of time can cause damage internally on the tires, so it's really best to pull the tire off the rim and give it a good inspection before putting it back into service.

The biggest issue with just plugging from the outside is you don't get to inspect the inside to see how it looks and decide if it's safe to repair or not...

 

[Maz]

How exactly do you "become liable"? Have a link?

What certificate? Are you referring to road hazard?

David

David I think you're confusing the word "liable" with actually liability. That is some attorney claiming you're liable and dragging you into court to defend yourself.

As a business owner I can tell you from experience (VERY COSTLY experience) that whether or not you are actually liable, the expense of defending yourself will make any question about liability a no brainer. You just pass on the business. Otherwise a $30. tire repair fee, may become a $30,000. attorney bill.

That's especially true of big tire chains who are considered in the "deep pockets" category. Some attorneys with less than honorable intent sue just to see if the corporate attorney will suggest giving them a settlement to go away.

It entirely possible sputnik had a legitimately repairable tire, and they were more interested in selling a new tire. However it's a disservice to the tire business for us not to recognize the minor income from repairs is fraught with the potential for getting sued. Who can blame them for having what we consumer think are "silly" rules.

 

[Bimmer-Bob]

I dunno if I would exactly call them be ridiculous for following recommendations from a higher order. You can argue what is a repairable tread block all you want; but just because it looks like a repairable tread, works like a repairable tread, does not mean it is a repairable tread (according to RMA), lol.

The Rubber Manufacturer's Association makes it pretty clear cut on what can or cannot be patched, and the outer tread blocks are not part of it, plain and simple. See below:

If you're curious, here's a link to how they recommend tires to be patched: http://www.rma.org/wp-content/uploads/prp_wallchart1111.pdf

If I understand correctly, these are the guys that pretty much develop the safety standards for all the tires on the road today here in the US, so it's kind of hard to argue with their guidelines from a legal standpoint.

I am pretty sure BJs is not in it just to make an extra buck by pushing a new tire; probably much more likely that BJs on a corporate level does not want to deal with the legal consequences (like most larger chain tire shops).

Kind of sucks that we live in the world where everyone sues at the drop of a hat, so if anything we have our peers to blame as well.

With that said, if you do plan to patch a hole that far out in to the shoulder I highly recommend one of these mushroom style plugs:

Patches at the shoulder go through a lot of more flexing and stress I think, and you really need all the surface area you can get when sticking it on. I've had pretty good luck with these type of plugs with holes right at the edge of the shoulder.

Not stating that this is right or wrong, just stating that it works for me, but your mileage may vary :cheers:

A thoughtful, well-reasoned post, supported by data! Refreshing.

 

[Canazes9]

David I think you're confusing the word "liable" with actually liability. That is some attorney claiming you're liable and dragging you into court to defend yourself.

As a business owner I can tell you from experience (VERY COSTLY experience) that whether or not you are actually liable, the expense of defending yourself will make any question about liability a no brainer. You just pass on the business. Otherwise a $30. tire repair fee, may become a $30,000. attorney bill.

That's especially true of big tire chains who are considered in the "deep pockets" category. Some attorneys with less than honorable intent sue just to see if the corporate attorney will suggest giving them a settlement to go away.

It entirely possible sputnik had a legitimately repairable tire, and they were more interested in selling a new tire. However it's a disservice to the tire business for us not to recognize the minor income from repairs is fraught with the potential for getting sued. Who can blame them for having what we consumer think are "silly" rules.

I think you're confusing what somebody else wrote with what I did.

I never suggested the tire company was "silly" or that they were just trying to sell him a tire.

Let's look at what I wrote:

Fix it yourself. I know the plug kits aren't supposed to be as good as the tire shop fixes, but after 30+ years I still can't tell the difference. Theoretically a plugged tire has more chance of having a belt separate/break, but I've only had 1 do that from dozen's of plugs over the years.

David

Immediately after my post [MENTION=87500]lilreds21[/MENTION] posted this:

I know where I live if you plug a tire or even "touch" a tire that it's deemed unsafe you then become liable... this is why there are safety margins... always always buy the certificates then they don't "get you" for a new tire.

I don't know if that post was even partially directed at me but the phrase if you plug a tire or even "touch" a tire that it's deemed unsafe you then become liable caught my eye. I have plugged a bunch of tires in my day for my own personal use (AKA Fix it yourself...) - I've never heard that doing so just made me liable. Maybe she was just referring to tire shops not individual use - I don't know. I don't know what [MENTION=87500]lilreds21[/MENTION] qualifications are - Is she an attorney? Work for the Tire Industry? Own a tire shop? Has experienced or had someone close in her life that has experienced said liability? I don't know.

So I asked for clarification. Note - I did not dispute her claim, I merely asked for clarification and if she has it, a source where I may read some on the subject for myself:

How exactly do you "become liable"? Have a link?

What certificate? Are you referring to road hazard?

David

Regards,

David

 

[lilreds21]

Plug patches are the recommended method of patching tires that need repair and within the margins of safe repair. I've worked in the tire industry for several years. If a individual person patches a tire on their own and the worst should happen then thats on them... if a shop fixes it then they are the ones liable if anything horrid or catastrophic should happen. There are rules, laws and regulations for a reason.
I'm far from being a lawyer...
And yes by certificates I mean road hazard warranty.

I'm educated in this but no expert. I just know from what I've seen I would never consider patching a tire unless it is within the deemed safe margins.

 

[Sputnik]

My nail was within the puncture repair area.. Lol

I dunno if I would exactly call them be ridiculous for following recommendations from a higher order. You can argue what is a repairable tread block all you want; but just because it looks like a repairable tread, works like a repairable tread, does not mean it is a repairable tread (according to RMA), lol.

The Rubber Manufacturer's Association makes it pretty clear cut on what can or cannot be patched, and the outer tread blocks are not part of it, plain and simple. See below:

If you're curious, here's a link to how they recommend tires to be patched: http://www.rma.org/wp-content/uploads/prp_wallchart1111.pdf

If I understand correctly, these are the guys that pretty much develop the safety standards for all the tires on the road today here in the US, so it's kind of hard to argue with their guidelines from a legal standpoint.

I am pretty sure BJs is not in it just to make an extra buck by pushing a new tire; probably much more likely that BJs on a corporate level does not want to deal with the legal consequences (like most larger chain tire shops).

Kind of sucks that we live in the world where everyone sues at the drop of a hat, so if anything we have our peers to blame as well.

With that said, if you do plan to patch a hole that far out in to the shoulder I highly recommend one of these mushroom style plugs:

Patches at the shoulder go through a lot of more flexing and stress I think, and you really need all the surface area you can get when sticking it on. I've had pretty good luck with these type of plugs with holes right at the edge of the shoulder.

Not stating that this is right or wrong, just stating that it works for me, but your mileage may vary :cheers:

 

[Canazes9]

Plug patches are the recommended method of patching tires that need repair and within the margins of safe repair. I've worked in the tire industry for several years. If a individual person patches a tire on their own and the worst should happen then thats on them... if a shop fixes it then they are the ones liable if anything horrid or catastrophic should happen. There are rules, laws and regulations for a reason.
I'm far from being a lawyer...
And yes by certificates I mean road hazard warranty.

I'm educated in this but no expert. I just know from what I've seen I would never consider patching a tire unless it is within the deemed safe margins.

Thanks for the follow up.

Rules, laws and regulations?

I know the tire industry has their recommended practices and that the shops adhere to this (or should). I know if there is an industry "best practice" and you fail to adhere to it you can get hammered from a liability stand point.

Are there regulations / laws prohibiting plugging tires? Do those laws apply to individuals or just shops?

Thanks,

David

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

This is why I get the replacement certs from Discount Tire. If they cant repair it, you get a new tire. Like 1E said earlier, this is our society's fault. If the tire shop repaired a tire that was not 100% within safety margins, they could be held responsible in the event of a catastrophic failure. It sucks, but this is how it works. That said, if they will not rotate your tires because the tred is to low, take it somewhere else or have a good look at what your driving on. Honestly if your trying to pull an extra 5k out of a set of tires, then you are saving a very small amount of money on the most safety critical part of your vehicle. Not worth it IMHO.

 

[CrazyNorwegian]

I've seen a lot of problems with those DIY repairs. Those plugs tend to dry up and shrink, and eventually start slowly leaking. Also, they act as a wick, and draw moisture directly into the steel cords of the tire causing them to rust, and eventually fail. As far as repairing at the edge of the tire....if I remember correctly I believe walmart got sued a little over 10 years for a tire failure due to a repair on the shoulder of the tire. After that no reputable tire shop will repair a tire if the puncture is less then 1/2 an inch from the shoulder of the tire. Personally if I had any doubt of the safety of my vehicle, I wouldn't let myself or my family drive it, or be able to live with hurting or killing someone else's family.