To all with frame rot and rust through

[Nelsonmd]

In my search I didn't eliminate just the "rust belt" but most of the mid-west too. Seemed like places that had heavy duty winter snow would equal undercarriages with lots of rust. Colorado for whatever reason was an exception.

Colorado uses Mag Chloride. My guess why is that it is less destructive to the environment, and less damaging to water sources. You have to remember, a huge number of people live in watersheds originating in CO. New England can dump whatever crap they want to into the rivers (and they do), because they run right into the ocean. CO not so much.

Also, CO doesn't get nearly as much rain to wash this stuff away, so the effect on the environment is probably alot more there than in heavy rain areas like NE.

 

[Kung]

If it really has never been in the rust belt, then I bet there is something you are missing contributing to rust, because for sure the predominant experience is that even places that use salt substitutes like MagCl (CO) don't have rust problems. You've got something else going on...

OR you live somewhere where they scrape the roads, and then let mother nature take care of the rest..... :biggrin2:

Bluntly put, the whole "it's 12 years old" argument gets nowhere with me. I've owned about 4 vehicles older than the 4Runner, with ALL of them having had a much harder life than the 4Runner has had. All of them were bought and spent most of their life in the 'rust belt.' *NONE* of them had anywhere NEAR the amount of rust that the 4Runner has - IF they had any. Two of them did not.

NOW....am I going to run off to NHTSA? No. LOL Is it a 'fear' for me? Obviously not, if I just BOUGHT the vehicle. Can I do things about it? Of COURSE I can, and I am.

But is it mere 'crying' if someone thinks this is a problem? Not necessarily. My 4Runner is my very first Toyota (and NOT my last, I can assure of you of that); I've owned 9 vehicles in the last 15 years. (Long story.) All of them were domestic, with NONE of them having anywhere NEAR the amount of rust my 4Runner has - and 3 of them had a MUCH harder life than this 4Runner has had, or will have.

In short, do I think this warrants a mass recall? Naah. But would it be nice if Toyota would help out a BIT more than just shrug? Sure. Maybe do a bit of research, put out a TSB on specifically HOW to treat it/coat it, something like that.

 

[T4Rscott]

To say that I am crying over this is inflammatory.

All I meant is that Toyota needs to be aware that their older 4 runners are rotting out. Whether or not it is an issue of maintenance, frames should not get these foot long or longer holes in the frame, period! Especially in such a short amount of time.

I do know that Japanese steel has always been inferior to domestic steel. Does this contribute to the problem? Who knows? What I do know is that I have a hole in my frame that needs repair. And now I have to keep wondering when the next hole will show up. And the next....... sure doesn't help at resale time either.

Anyway, I will get this fixed and I will be using Fluid Film to coat the frame. For myself, I am finished with this topic.

Scott

 

[sabre65]

Just another reason I moved south......

 

[maxspeed96ct]

I just painted my frame with por 15 a few weeks ago, but while I was under there I saw some spots that realy made my think "holly sh!t"

I know guys talk about maintenance and blah blah , but I couldnt afford a 4runner when the were brand new . And I purcahse my vehilce used with some frame rust...


I think its B.S. the toyota frames rust so easly, I know other vehicles as old as 96-02 have body rot , But none have frame rot as bad as toyotas.



O.P. please keep us updated on any recall info, Id love to upgrade to a 05+ tacoma... :girl:

 

[theizzardking]

you know op, pictures would possibly lend some weight to your creditability here.

lots of other makes and models of vehicale of similar years have rust issues in that area, i mean its not a known issue to everyone including 15 year olds for nothing... that was one of the first few things i learned when shopping for cars avoid the ne and check for rust on the under carrige...


and as to why your 1995 ford doesn't have the same issues, that's like wondering why your wife got the flu and you didn't this year, just chance and luck to a certain extent, the tacoma issue was with the frame rotting from the inside out where owners couldn't do preventive maintenance, here whats happened is you got a rock chip or managed to scratch the frame some how expose the bare metal and over time just got eaten away, so who's to say your ford hasn't gotten luck, do a search for the for ranger rust issues of the same year (the f-150 is a boxed frame as opposed to a lighter truck's c-frame design like our toyota's compare apples to apples at least)


best thing you can do to keep you trck from rusting out is to wash it regularly and visually inspect it every few months, i usually check it out when i'm doing an oil change, i mean your there already right....i have no problem going through a car wash when it's grey and snowing out just for the mere fact to wash all of that packed up crap off the underneath...in my mind it's better to wash it off and let it repack up every few days then let it sit all winter, i park outside so sometimes that asty snow/grit/salt combo can stay under the truck for a few weaks just working its magic...

again it's like anything it will last as long as to how good you take care of it, meaning even the cheapest pile of crap can last 50 years if it's well taken car of and the most nicest well built item can be destroyed in a matter of minutes if not taken care of properly, and personally i admit i only take care of about 65-75% of the stuff i should do at any given time, it's alot of work man, seriously pull out the manual and tell me the last time you did half the stuff they tell you to do right there in the book, i know i don't...so should i get mad at toyota for not doing everything i should? that's like getting mad at the dentist for getting a cavity, nobody brushes and flosses after every meal like they should, at least i don't lol, twice is good enough, lol, i hope your starting to see my point...

and letting toyota know about it in the way you are could
cost them money just by having to respond regardless of right and wrong, and the parts are expensive enough as it is.

bottom line your aware of the issue now, fix it ,keep an eye on it and maintain it ....

 

[cfranck1]

Just thought I'd put my pictures up.
I bought my Runner almost 2 years ago from original owner from Westchester County NY. Body is mint and frame didn't look bad.

When I did all the maintenance I was doing to it, I put it on the lift here at work and scraped and wire wheeled the frame, and finally painted with first a rust treatment, then top coated that with some chassis frame paint from "Eastwood".
Drove thru winter cleaning it any chance I could. (once a week or more) Payed close attention to the holes in the frame to spray water in them to clean the inside out the most. I had a Taco buyback so I was aware to clean the hell out of this one.

Cleaned the hell out of it in the spring before I put it away for the summer.

Took it out this fall and put it back on the lift at work to check things out before winter and it looked like i never even touched it last year.

Plus I found these nice presents (pictures).
Looks like the frame is rusting just like my Taco did, from the inside!!
Am I pissed off at Toyota, no. I will be buying another Toyota someday. I'm just a little saddened at the whole situation. In the coming weeks I will be welding a nice plate on my frame so it's good for as long as I own the Runner

I work at a Ford dealership here in CT. I'm glad I don't own one either. Talk about rust on a 9-13 year old Toyota, we have 2009 and even 2010 F Series rusting exhaust manifolds right off the truck. You might have heard in the news, gas tank straps rusting off F150's, trucks come in here with the tank rubbing the ground..

 

[kayak99]

I think the 4 Runner defenders here are amazing! If you have had no rust, great, lucky you but don't trash others who expected Toyota quality to continue. I have had a few 4 Runners, never rust. I have had an '03 4 Runner since new and it's a rust bucket. Not only the frame but tail gate rust through. The vehicle is washed often. I am actually looking for one of those magnetic "Toyota Rust" signs I can use along side of the rust through. And, by the way this rust has been there for several years.

 

[zgensler31]

Noticed a couple people asking g how other vehicles the same age were withstanding the rust. My dad owned both a Ford e-350 work van and checy sikverado 1500. Both 01s. Both spent their entire life in NW pa. Sallllltttty roads. They rusted like heck. Van had door panels rusting through, holes in the frame and broken suspension parts throughout their lives. Why? Not because for and chevy make crap frames. Because he doesn't ever wash them in the winter, didn't once think to pay any attention to preventing the rust.

My 96 4runner has spent its entire life in the same conditions. Except the fact that for approximately 8 years it was garage kept. And it was also clearly undercoated at least every couple years.

Sure mine isn't spotless. A few little spots on the body. And some surface rust on the frame that I took care of this summer. Buts its solid.

A kid I went to school with has a classic rust bucket t4r. I asked him about it and he didn't even know what undercoating was.....

Its not a if you got lucky good for you. If not oh well situation.

Its a, thses areas cause rust if you don't counteract and prevent it. So don't act like Toyota owes you something because you or who you bought it from didn't take care of it.

In my mind it would be like filing a complaint to Toyota because owners that failed to change their motor oil are suffering from early then should be, failing motors.

 

[woodro]

i just have a 99 4runner that i am now battling some rust , previous owner hid it with fresh undercoat . i just removed the rear diff and had it sand blasted and painted .

i also have a 90 toyota pick up that has no rust . i live in NY and know all about rust and have never had a vehicle have such a bad rust problem as this runner .

rear diffs that rust so bad they leak fluid is just horrible and frames that rot from the inside out ? i blame toyota totally ! poor material bad design .

i had a 77 chevy blazer that spent its hole life in the "rust belt" and had some rusty body parts but the frame was solid with no rust and in better shape than this runner .

i am not complaining and not looking for a recall , i am going to fix it and keep my eye on it .

but to hear people saying its a 12 year old truck and its normal to have rot holes in the frame just because they live in the rust belt is crazy !

 

[zgensler31]

yeah i would agree that its not normal to have that, or to be expected, but if you dont take care of it, why would you expect it to just be fine, after spending so much time in bad conditions...i guess i just dont get how people are always shocked that a frame and other things can rust when you leave them in a wet, salty, temperature changing climate...

 

[DRMILLAN]

Hello Cfranck1. Is the area you photographed the main area of concern? I just noticed that the passenger side ONLY, between the cat converter and rear axle, is rusting from the inside out on mine. Almost paper thin in spots, but in front of that and behind that area is sound as sound can be. The driver's side is solid as can be also. I do take care of this vehicle and under carriage wash it several times per year. The rest os the vehicle is rust free except for 2 small rock chips and the rust has not progressed in three years. I have 250K and it is an excellent condition vehicle. Most people can not believe it is 14 years old and 250K because it is so well maintained. From what I have been reading and from talking to other people, it seems that 98 & 99's frames rust mostly on the passenger side middle. I do believe that it is a quality control issue on these vehicles. Just like the high number of repeat left rear wheel seal and bearing issues. Must have been a welding jig error and the left tubes are slightly off kilt binding the bearing. Have read about many 98 & 99's with this issue also. I asked this because I noticed from your pics that the pattern and location is the same as mine and others I have seen. I love this truck so much, that if I can find.....hopefully, a from from Colorado or another no salt state that hasn't rusted, I will buy it, sand blast it, spray it with POR, and undercoat it and go through the inside with undercoating and go through the painstaking task of transfering my engine, tranny, front clip, suspension and tub onto the newer frame. It would be a shame to shit-can this truck, since it is still newer looking otherwise, and mechanically sound...with exception of a now rusting rear differential. This truck is worth the task. It is also a shame that these frames are welded, then heat treated, or a much easier task would be to weld in the passenger fram rail, but unfortunately the frame will only crack away at the weld seams because of the heat treating. I do find it odd that these trucks do not otherwise rust with exception of the rear diff, and the passenger side frame rail, inside edge, and inside out.

 

[Singtoe]

Ditto. I can't understand why they use salt here. And on top of that, why they use so stinking much salt. I have been driving along thinking I was driving on a snowy road only to realize that there was no snow, just a crapload of salt.

Is there a Kennedy that owns a salt company or something?

Look at all the destruction it does to the roads and the bridges.


But if it just saves one life, then it was all worth it. :brick:

 

[THatfield]

If you think Toyota's rust bad, the 98-04 Isuzu Rodeo/Honda Passport frame rot issue is pretty bad. Rear trackbar completely rots off the frame.


However, Isuzu did take responsibility and offered inspections and a possible buy back of the vehicle if it was bad enough.

A little preventative maintenance and pre-buy inspection goes a long way. Checking for rust before you buy and then Washing your truck bi-weekly or even weekly pays off in the long run.

 

[Nelsonmd]

But if it just saves one life, then it was all worth it. :brick:

You sir are a hero, for bravely thinking of the children at all costs. Here, take my property and freedom too, to help you in the fight to save lives!

 

[BlackCat914]

seems like we're beating a dead horse here, so I'll just say........I like turtles.

 

[Kung]

 

[Dana223]

frame rust is the SAMe as on Tacomas!

My 2001 Toyota Tacoma was recalled a few years back and Toyota replaced the rusted out frame for free. Now my 2000 4Runner has the same problem, and Toyota is ignoring it. I understand that both vehicles use the SAME frame! I had the 4Runner in for an oil change a few months ago, and Toyota dealer never mentioned this potentially life-threatening condition. It wasn't until I tried to sell it that the potential buyer pointed it out to me. What is Toyota waiting for--a fatality! I have complained to NHTSA. Has anyone pursued legal action, a class action suit?

 

[Riceye]

My 2001 Toyota Tacoma was recalled a few years back and Toyota replaced the rusted out frame for free. Now my 2000 4Runner has the same problem, and Toyota is ignoring it. I understand that both vehicles use the SAME frame!

While the 3rd gen 4Runners and the 1st gen Tacomas share a common basic platform, the frames and (more importantly) the manufacturing details differed greatly.

I've copy/pasted an excerpt from a post I wrote on this thread about frame rust.

Here's the poop on the Tacoma/4runner difference.

I also had a 98 Tacoma TRD that I purchased in Bozeman, MT in 2007. The frame was rust free. I live in SE WI where road salt is over-applied in an effort to compensate for poor drivers. After being involved in a rear-end/billiard ball/front-end collision on I-43 downtown Milwaukee last winter, I had my frame inspected prior to repair. The truck failed, and I also was compensated at 150% book value by Toyota.

Apparently, the final assembly for 1st generation Tacoma trucks was done in Fremont, CA. The frames were manufactured in Mexico by a subsidiary of the Dana Corp. There were steps skipped in the production that covered the corrosion protection of the metal. Toyota won a huge lawsuit with Dana a couple of years back relating to this quality error. As generous as Toyota appears with the buyback campaigns that followed, the money came out of Dana Corp's pocket (not that it shouldn't; They screwed up.).

The 3rd gen 4runners were assembled in Japan, and the necessary rustproofing was applied to the frames. Rust can still compromise the frames over time on our T4Rs, but it does not progress nearly so fast as the same vintage Tacoma trucks. My Tacoma went from clean to rusted through in four years!

I see that you are from somewhere in New York. As in Wisconsin, the use of road salt is a fact of life. Just as with any vehicle subjected to salt, the frame of your 14 year old vehicle has rusted through. If it had been a Tacoma, the frame would have rusted through many years ago.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you about this allegation.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

To say that I am crying over this is inflammatory.

All I meant is that Toyota needs to be aware that their older 4 runners are rotting out. Whether or not it is an issue of maintenance, frames should not get these foot long or longer holes in the frame, period! Especially in such a short amount of time.

I do know that Japanese steel has always been inferior to domestic steel. Does this contribute to the problem? Who knows? What I do know is that I have a hole in my frame that needs repair. And now I have to keep wondering when the next hole will show up. And the next....... sure doesn't help at resale time either.

Anyway, I will get this fixed and I will be using Fluid Film to coat the frame. For myself, I am finished with this topic.

Scott

I agree with the OP that it is a quality issue. If you go to a Toyota dealer, and look under a brand new 4runner, you will notice that EVERY frame weld is missing spots of coating and is already showing surface rust. I live in Oregon, where it never snows, and have owned my 2013 my 4runner for less then a year, and already have to go over every weld with rust bullet so things don't get worse, which shouldn't have to be done on a new vehicle...

Look at the rust on this 6 month old 4runner....

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/142147-rust-6-month-old-4runner.html

Maybe it is just me, but no frame should look like that after 6 months, even with no maintenance...