TonyB66's Ownership -> Build Thread (2000 Limited)

[BrianSD_42]

Can't wait to see those King's mounted. Please post your thread measurements with the 650 coils.

Oh, I just realized that I have space for just one more image in the albums here.

I use IMGUR and there are no limits that I've seen so far for free posting. I think IMGUR is the best because despite being basic it is has full HD photos allowed for free with no bandwidth limits and no charge. Also IMGUR is the official image hosting for free for the website Reddit. Reddit I'm sure I don't have to tell you is a pretty big deal and isn't going anywhere. It is the #18 most visited site on the WWW --> IMGUR isn't going anywhere and it will remain free for a long long time to come.

 

[TonyB66]

No big updates. A couple weeks back I finally did the DRL deactivate “mod” and I adjusted all three TB cables. Nice additions that took a total of about 30 minutes...

Having just made reservations for our annual Tahoe trip, I next want to tackle, finally, the LBJs (43340-39465 and 43330-39585). I will also purchase the inner and outer tie rod ends, and do those also. I already have poly bushings for the front sway bar, steering rack and front lower control arms. Anything else I should consider or do while performing these tasks? I’ll be making my shopping list over the next couple of days, so I welcome the feedback...

While taking-off the running boards was long overdue, and I’m glad I did that a few months back, our two little ones, mostly the youngest, have a hard time getting in and to a lesser degree out of the 4Runner. I’ll need to have sliders on the ready when I finally install the Kings and whatever I decide upon for the rear…

Took the 4Runner to a college football game this past weekend, and it served us well tailgating. Not exactly how I planned to use it, but I’ll certainly consider doing so again.

 

[TonyB66]

Got a box from Camelback today...

- LBJs with new bolts
- Inner and outer tie rods, with boots

The plan, slated for next weekend, is to install those along with some front bushings too.

- Steering rack (ES)
- LCA (Whiteline)
- Front sway bar (ES)

The King front coil-overs and SPC adjustable UCAs will be some other time, likely after I have bumpers. The springs are 650s, and I've been told would ride like crap without addtional weight. RCI skids should help, and I hope to install those in the next few weeks, after the above is replaced/installed...

Finally installed a dash cam a couple days ago. It's the aftermarket mirror type that mounts to the factory rear view mirror. It's apparently very nice, and sought after in Taiwan, where these are quite popular. We shall see. I routed the cable under the headliner and down the passenger side A-pillar, then behind the glove box. Feels good to finally having one of these installed. I'll get a photo later...

While installing this item I realized that my rear view mirror is lose. It has a wobble that is apparently fairly common, and a pretty easy fix. It seems that most simply pry open these two split sleeves a little, then re-assemble. I decided to cut two short bolt segments, the right diameter, to slide into these sleeves. I'm thinking or hoping that should help prevent it from compressing too much again over time. This photo shows one of the cut bolts inserted in a sleeve, and the other one not...

We'll see how well it holds-up over time...

 

[TonyB66]

Rear spring input sought...

Noting for the record that I ordered King rear shocks, the adjustable ones. They should be here in about a month. As some might know, extended travel, at least on the rears, simply entails the removal of an internal spacer, allowing for an extra 0.25" of travel. Not all that much, unless one needs it of course...

So, I'm now trying to educate myself on the ideal springs for my application. I'll be upping the front mildly, from 1.5 to 2 inches. I'd like to mirror that in the rear, maybe 2.5" max. So what weight do I plan to add? Well, I don't think a lot, most of the time...

My aftermarket rack is aluminum (Rocky Mountain Antero Extension) and only added 15 pounds. I'll be going with a Savage rear bumper, which is I believe the lightest option for us, and apparently is the same weight of my OEM one with tow set-up. The spare should be lighter too as the wheel will be the 16x8" Konig Countersteer Type X at 18.5 pounds. I am fairly certain that I'll install an auxiliary fuel tank in the factory spare location though. Two growing girls in the back seat and maybe 100 to 150 pounds of gear... I still need to install full skids, but that not exactly rear weight. Think that would get 861s down to 2-2.5"? King didn't recommend anything over 2.5". I'll also be towing a small utility / camping trailer at some point. While I continue to read the many spring threads here, I welcome any input...

I experimented with LED headlight bulbs that were on special and found that they weren't sufficiently compelling to keep, so I'll return them and go back with the 20 buck halogens. Since I had the rubber boots out, I cleaned them up and noted that they were in very good condition. Wanting to keep them that way, I then massaged-in some 100% silicone grease and let them sit for a while. I wiped them down before installing. Here's what they looked like all greased-up...

I'll be doing the same rubber treatment on portions of the Camelback goodies in the earlier photos, which will be installed next Saturday...

 

[Unner]

If you're trying to keep the weight down and keep the lift to 2.5" or less I don't think you'll like the 861s. I've got more weight than you, and I'm at about 3" in the back still with 861s.

 

[TonyB66]

If you're trying to keep the weight down and keep the lift to 2.5" or less I don't think you'll like the 861s. I've got more weight than you, and I'm at about 3" in the back still with 861s.

Thanks for chiming-in Unner. I'm thinking the same. The aux tank, at 18 gallons, should add about 150 pounds too.

I tend to agree that the 861 will raise the rear beyond 2.5". Need to find something that will do so a little bit less. Reading-up on SuperFlex now as that might be a viable candidate...

 

[Unner]

Thanks for chiming-in Unner. I'm thinking the same. The aux tank, at 18 gallons, should add about 150 pounds too.

I tend to agree that the 861 will raise the rear beyond 2.5". Need to find something that will do so a little bit less. Reading-up on SuperFlex now as that might be a viable candidate...

I forgot you mentioned adding a gas tank. That might bring you down enough to put you in the range you want. Gas is heavy, but it's a variable weight depending on how much gas you have of course.

 

[TonyB66]

I forgot you mentioned adding a gas tank. That might bring you down enough to put you in the range you want. Gas is heavy, but it's a variable weight depending on how much gas you have of course.

About 6 lbs a gallon. 18 gallon tank, so full, a little over 100 pounds, not including the tank and hardware. That's why i figured about 150 lbs max, and near the end of the 4Runner too... 100-150 lbs of gear, two girls in the back seat, some tongue weight, eventually.

King recommended not going over 2.5" in the rear. But, you have Kings in the back, and you are over that, with no issues... I'm tired of reading spring threads dating back almost a decade, lol.

The reality is that I don't have the aux tank yet, and I won't begin outfitting my trailer until next year. While the 861s might be too much spring for my ultimate end-point, it is clearly too much in the interim. Heck even the SuperFlex might have me riding higher than desired, but that seems like a safer bet for me. About the only complaint I heard was from one poster claiming that they can clang a bit on the trail...

 

[TonyB66]

So, I lied. I read through more spring threads, several more. It was time-consuming, but I did find a nugget that I wish to keep for future reference, and share with others, so I provide it here:

Cruiser Outfitters

Given that I plan to lift the front 1.5 - 2" max, and want about 2 - 2.5" in the rear, I'm going with 891s (OME/ARB 2891). They apparently make for 3" of lift, but with settling and some weight, they should have my 4Runner in the desired sweet spot.

If I find over time these are sagging too much, just not up to the task, I'll then consider 861s. After much thought, I really don't think those will be needed as the more substantial weight will be in/on my trailer. So, just moderate tongue weight, plus around 200 lbs in the rear of the 4Runner. The confidence level is pretty high that the 891s will fit my application very well...

They should be arriving tomorrow, and for $165 delivered. Thanks for the input received, including over PM.

 

[Snowden]

Given that I plan to lift the front 1.5 - 2" max, and want about 2 - 2.5" in the rear, I'm going with 891s (OME/ARB 2891). They apparently make for 3" of lift, but with settling and some weight, they should have my 4Runner in the desired sweet spot.

Hi Tony. For those desired results I think you will be happy with the 891's and here's why. I originally had 890's in my 4Runner because I was very worried about having too stiff of a ride quality with 891's (I shouldn't have been). That was before I built my RB shelf mod, added the rear bumper and tire carrier, and a bit of trail gear constantly kept in the rig. Once all that was done the 890's just gave up and I had back the notorious sag. I swapped in 891's and was extremely happy for a couple of months. But then the 891's started sagging, albeit every so slightly. The ride quality is just fine.

I believe with the weight you are talking about these will give you the desired result you are looking for at 2-2.5" over time. I am also making an assumption that you will realize the weight adds up quicker than you think and the estimated couple of hundred pounds you are talking about will actually end up being more. FWIW IMHO YMMV.

 

[TonyB66]

Hi Tony. For those desired results I think you will be happy with the 891's and here's why. I originally had 890's in my 4Runner because I was very worried about having too stiff of a ride quality with 891's (I shouldn't have been). That was before I built my RB shelf mod, added the rear bumper and tire carrier, and a bit of trail gear constantly kept in the rig. Once all that was done the 890's just gave up and I had back the notorious sag. I swapped in 891's and was extremely happy for a couple of months. But then the 891's started sagging, albeit every so slightly. The ride quality is just fine.

I believe with the weight you are talking about these will give you the desired result you are looking for at 2-2.5" over time. I am also making an assumption that you will realize the weight adds up quicker than you think and the estimated couple of hundred pounds you are talking about will actually end up being more. FWIW IMHO YMMV.

Ash, I really appreciate you taking the time to share as you did. Confirmation is certainly a good feeling...

I saw a photo of your shelf mod a few days back and it looks great! How much weight, about, does it add, along with your roll hoop and equipment you have back there?

As you know, I have a trailer and I plan to outfit that for storage and camping ventures, along with a rack for both THD runs (plywood, drywall, etc) and a RTT. The trailer is 4'x6' and will carry of all our camping gear. It will be packed and always ready to go...

As for added weight in the rear of the 4Runner, here's what I see ultimately for non-camping treks, not including little ones in the back seat as that is not exactly the rear...

- Savage rear bumper with carrier (spare and jack)

This aftermkt rear bumper itself will add zero weight compared to what I have now (factory bumper with tow hitch). I will get the carrier though, and that is 45 lbs. The spare will actually be a little lighter given the wheels of choice, so no addtional weight there. About 30 lbs for a hi lift jack? If so, that's 75 lbs addtional weight.

- 18 gallon Ford aux tank

At 6 lbs per gallon of fuel, plus the tank and necessary hardware, figure on the max weight (when full), at 150 lbs.

- Cargo area gear

When not taking the trailer, maybe a 100 pounds in the back, like for our Tahoe trips. Of some note, I ditched (sold) the cargo privacy screen, and that thing weighs 8 pounds.

- Roof rack

The aluminum Rocky Mountain Antero Extension "half rack" added just 15 pounds, not all of that in the rear...

++++++

Once I have the aftermkt bumper with carrier, the aux tank in the factory spare location and full of gas, family gear in the cargo area, I'm looking at a 325 pounds. Given the dynamic weight of the fuel, 325 looks to be the max.

 

[BrianSD_42]

On a side note, I have always thought that a primary reason to go with Toyota LC springs is the lack of sag (excluding added weight). My LC coils are now approaching 10 years and a full 100K miles use and my rear has sagged ~ 0.5" at most.

It is probably a good idea to forgo the cost of rear Kings for now.

 

[TonyB66]

On a side note, I have always thought that a primary reason to go with Toyota LC springs is the lack of sag (excluding added weight). My LC coils are now approaching 10 years and a full 100K miles use and my rear has sagged ~ 0.5" at most.

It is probably a good idea to forgo the cost of rear Kings for now.

Pretty hard to not consider LC spring Brian. Wanting a relatively short lift in the rear compared to many here, only the 7 wraps made my short list. It was mighty hard to pass on the 861s and their rave reviews. Again, just too much lift, I feel. As Ash said, with more than expected weight possibly to come, who knows, 861 might happen someday. I've used old springs before as wind chimes!

I got rear Kings ordered, and for what I believe to be a really good price too ($849 delivered). Oops, I decided to add the adjustability option, so 200 more. Should be here in about 2-3 more weeks...

 

[Snowden]

Ash, I really appreciate you taking the time to share as you did. Confirmation is certainly a good feeling...

I saw a photo of your shelf mod a few days back and it looks great! How much weight, about, does it add, along with your roll hoop and equipment you have back there?

++++++

Once I have the aftermkt bumper with carrier, the aux tank in the factory spare location and full of gas, family gear in the cargo area, I'm looking at a 325 pounds. Given the dynamic weight of the fuel, 325 looks to be the max.

Tony unfortunately I don't know all the exact weights but if I had to guess on the roll bar and shelf with Action Packers I'd say, as they sit and the Action Packer tubs full, probably < 100lbs. The RB is very light actually. The wood galley/sleeper kit I built came in at I'd say 60+lbs empty and then with about 20lbs of gear I regularly kept in it simply because I didn't need to empty it. Which is why I ultimately took the galley/sleeper kit out and eventually sold it to someone who didn't wheel their 4Runner and just wanted the storage compartments to support his dirt biking hobby. Weight wasn't going to be a factor for him whereas I just didn't want to haul the extra dead weight around while crawling off-road.

The Savage bumper does IMO gain you some extra weight and while I don't know the exact numbers, since I did take all the old stuff off and install the Savage, my personal opinion was that it was still slightly heavier and isn't a wash with the factory bumper and hitch. But not much more probably 15+lbs.

But here's actually where you have to consider weight plus mounting location, and I know you know this but just as a reminder since it isn't just a matter of weight, but also the location of the weight. The further back you start stacking that weight the more leverage it has on your suspension. And by the time you add for example, the Savage tire carrier and then a spare tire, the static weight of those items begins to multiply. As well as everything else you start loading in to the back of your rig the further back you go from the axis. As well as the tongue weight of your trailer.

Moment = Force x Distance or M = (F)(d)

Even with the 891's, just with the RB mod and the Savage w/tire carrier and spare tire, I lost 1/4" on the drivers side and 3/8" on the passenger side. That is before I put gear when I go on a trip. And when I swing the tire out to open the tailgate I lose another 1/8".

Hec I even just lost 3/16" of an inch to the front (600lb coils) when I installed all the Savage skid plates lol... I am thinking of upgrading the front coils to 650lbs because I don't have a winch on there yet and know that I'll most likely need the stiffer springs if I want to keep everything as it was with ride quality. I do prefer a stiffer ride quality personally.

Also keep in mind, as the springs age and get used, they compress on themselves.

You are welcome to stop by any time since we're neighbors and all, or meet over at Starbucks with our 4Runners and you can check it out.

 

[TonyB66]

Tony unfortunately I don't know all the exact weights but if I had to guess on the roll bar and shelf with Action Packers I'd say, as they sit and the Action Packer tubs full, probably < 100lbs. The RB is very light actually. The wood galley/sleeper kit I built came in at I'd say 60+lbs empty and then with about 20lbs of gear I regularly kept in it simply because I didn't need to empty it. Which is why I ultimately took the galley/sleeper kit out and eventually sold it to someone who didn't wheel their 4Runner and just wanted the storage compartments to support his dirt biking hobby. Weight wasn't going to be a factor for him whereas I just didn't want to haul the extra dead weight around while crawling off-road.

The Savage bumper does IMO gain you some extra weight and while I don't know the exact numbers, since I did take all the old stuff off and install the Savage, my personal opinion was that it was still slightly heavier and isn't a wash with the factory bumper and hitch. But not much more probably 15+lbs.

But here's actually where you have to consider weight plus mounting location, and I know you know this but just as a reminder since it isn't just a matter of weight, but also the location of the weight. The further back you start stacking that weight the more leverage it has on your suspension. And by the time you add for example, the Savage tire carrier and then a spare tire, the static weight of those items begins to multiply. As well as everything else you start loading in to the back of your rig the further back you go from the axis. As well as the tongue weight of your trailer.

Moment = Force x Distance or M = (F)(d)

Even with the 891's, just with the RB mod and the Savage w/tire carrier and spare tire, I lost 1/4" on the drivers side and 3/8" on the passenger side. That is before I put gear when I go on a trip. And when I swing the tire out to open the tailgate I lose another 1/8".

Hec I even just lost 3/16" of an inch to the front (600lb coils) when I installed all the Savage skid plates lol... I am thinking of upgrading the front coils to 650lbs because I don't have a winch on there yet and know that I'll most likely need the stiffer springs if I want to keep everything as it was with ride quality. I do prefer a stiffer ride quality personally.

Also keep in mind, as the springs age and get used, they compress on themselves.

You are welcome to stop by any time since we're neighbors and all, or meet over at Starbucks with our 4Runners and you can check it out.

Don’t you hate it when you have a browser crash or freeze and you lose what you composed?! I'll try to be more brief...

Thanks Ash. Those details are helpful in allowing me to better appreciate the impact of weight in relation to drop. Yup, I understand pretty well the significance of the sprung weight's location. That’s one reason I like the aux tank idea, further inward, and lower as compared to cans hanging higher off the back.

If the 891s do indeed make for 3” of lift as advertised, even with a full inch of compression, at 2” I’d be fine. Looking to up the front by 1.5 to 2”. As with everything, time will tell. I’m pretty darn convinced that at a minimum, the 891s will serve me well in the short-term though. And even if it does start to droop a bit more than preferred, I suppose I can consider wedging them up a little. Hopefully that won’t be needed. If so, then I’ll start preparing myself for 861s.

I appreciate your feedback on the Savage rear bumper. It apparently hits the scales at a scant 85 lbs. A couple on here have said that it’s about the same weight as the factory bumper and hitch that I’d be replacing. From what you said, it’s not quite a push, and might add up to 15 pounds. I’ll take your word on that one.

When I do use the trailer for camping, the added tongue weight should not be too much and would be offset by very little in the cargo area.

Brian here convinced me to be go with 650 lb springs in the front. After what you shared, sounds like I did well taking his advice.

Hey, before I forget, might you know of a good welder around these parts? I ordered Keith’s PCK last night.

We’ll certainly meet someday soon Ash. Worst case, on Nov 3rd at Tim’s place.

 

[TonyB66]

As stated earlier, I finally made the time to get some front end work done. And, I’m so glad that I decided to do so at Timmy The Toolman’s place! It was quite a bit of work and doing it alone would have been a bear. And it’s not unusual to encounter the unforeseen, and there was some of that here, but that’s what makes wrenching fun and so rewarding. Tim being super knowledgeable and a nice guy made this a no-brainer...

What was done:

- LBJ replacement (with 8 new bolts)
- Inner and outer tie rods, with boots
- LCA bushings (Whiteline)
- Steering rack bushings (ES)
- Front sway bar bushings (ES)

I shared photos before of the above bagged and boxed, so I won’t do so again. Here is what was discarded.

I will clean and keep the old boots as they are in pretty good shape.

One of the bushings had pretty much disintegrated. A couple more were in very poor condition. It drives and tracks much better, feels tighter (less slop) and is quitter, especially when going over bumps. Between making marks, taking measurements and counting threads, Tim took such detailed precautions to ensure that the alignment would be very near what it was beforehand. I realize of course that I should seek a professional alignment, and will at some point, likely after I install Kings, SPC UCAs along with new wheels and tires.

After the drive home I re-checked the torque on all fasteners, including the lug nuts. All good. And as seen earlier when I did some work in the rear, I broke-out the blue fingernail polish again. Something I started a few years back and it has become somewhat a habit. It only takes about 5-10 minutes.

I got these rear springs about a week ago.

The rear Kings should be here in about a week...

Tim and Sean should have the video out later, not of everything done as that would be duplicative for them, but the tie rods, namely the inners, but will likely show the outers as well. I look forward to seeing Tim again on Nov 3rd, and the chance to meet others here.

 

[TonyB66]

With that work done, next up was going to be the installation of underside armor. I had purchased RCI skids in a GB earlier in the year, but figured I'd wait until after the bushings, ball joints and tie rods were done...

But, I do have some rust I want to tackle first. By CA standards, a bit more than what I normally saw when shopping for a 3rd gen, but not all that much really.

For those who have not used Corrsoseal, it's pretty neat stuff...

 

[twowheel]

Dang! We use Corroseal on boats...I didn't even think about it for our T4Rs! Brilliant.

 

[Kmurt]

California?! Rust?! In the same sentence?! Nooooo!!! Lol

Would love to see your before and after rust treatment pics as well.

 

[TonyB66]

Corrroseal did wonders on frames before for me and others. Most recently I used it on a '63 Jeep Gladiator.

The stuff goes-on super easy. I'll use some cheap Harbor Freight paint brushes of various sizes. Need to first clean the surface of any debris and loose rust.

IMPORTANT: Add a topcoat, ie paint. I found quite a few who did not with the reasoning that they liked the color and texture of Corrseal. It needs a topcoat. Corroseal will tell you the same. I still have the email from them stating that if not painted, it will begin to flake-off after 5-6 months, then rust begins again.

Also, this stuff is not meant for exhaust pipes or places that get hot. I'll be hitting some spots on the frame, axle, LCAs...