Towing experiences with your 5th Generation

[shinscreen]

Hey shinscreen:

I did the air bag install myself - Took about an hour or so, but I've got air tools and it made it a heck of a lot quicker to drop the rear axle enough to get the coil springs out and put the bags in them.

I'm still on the hunt for ideal mirror extensions - so far I've tried three and they've all been worthless. I'm hopeful that this recent pair of CIPA 11980 Universal Bar mirrors is a better experience.

I do not actually know my true hitch weight yet fully loaded. I have a feeling I'm teetering right on the max of 500lbs with two full 20lb propane tanks, battery, power tongue jack and all the gear in the front storage of the camper. I need to make it down to the CAT scale on a quiet day and put the trailer on to see.

When I picked up the 212 I did not have the air bags installed, just the Weight Distribution Hitch and it did fine without, though the rear end was a little low and close to the bump stops. I don't know how necessary the bags are, and I don't usually air them up to the max of 35 psi - usually between 10 and 15 psi.

Thanks for the helpful info KyleB4279!

I ended up going with the Air Bags only (Firestone Coil-Rite Air Helper Springs) after a test drive with the camper.

I did invest in a tongue scale (etrailer Tongue Weight Scale e99044). It was really interesting. After I picked up the camper from an Outdoorsy host, I took it home and weighed the tongue. It was right at 500lbs. I packed our gear on or behind the axle and brought the tongue down to about 420 lbs. I estimate that I added about 300 or 400 lbs. to the dry camper weight of 3700 lbs. The 4runner pulled it really well with a canoe on top and 3 kids and a dog in back. I did not notice any sway on the way there with no winds and very little sway on the way back in 15-20 mph winds. I would say that I stayed between 55 and 60 the whole way and took my time. The RedArc trailer brake controller was fantastic and I was able to quickly dial in the trailer brakes to where I wanted them. I kept it in S4 the whole way. Really pleased with the 4Runner towing performance.

Also, I found a B&W hitch that I really like. It fits up snug and does not stick out a mile. I think I love this Tow & Stow Hitch! : 4Runner

 

[KyleB4279]

Thanks for the helpful info KyleB4279!

I ended up going with the Air Bags only (Firestone Coil-Rite Air Helper Springs) after a test drive with the camper.

I did invest in a tongue scale (etrailer Tongue Weight Scale e99044). It was really interesting. After I picked up the camper from an Outdoorsy host, I took it home and weighed the tongue. It was right at 500lbs. I packed our gear on or behind the axle and brought the tongue down to about 420 lbs. I estimate that I added about 300 or 400 lbs. to the dry camper weight of 3700 lbs. The 4runner pulled it really well with a canoe on top and 3 kids and a dog in back. I did not notice any sway on the way there with no winds and very little sway on the way back in 15-20 mph winds. I would say that I stayed between 55 and 60 the whole way and took my time. The RedArc trailer brake controller was fantastic and I was able to quickly dial in the trailer brakes to where I wanted them. I kept it in S4 the whole way. Really pleased with the 4Runner towing performance.

Also, I found a B&W hitch that I really like. It fits up snug and does not stick out a mile. I think I love this Tow & Stow Hitch! : 4Runner

Glad to see you got it worked out! Moving gear around inside the camper really helps a lot too. We keep all of our light stuff (chairs, umbrella, etc) in the front storage of the trailer and the heavy stuff (full coolers etc) goes inside in the middle to keep weight off the front. A scale is definitely going to be my next purchase and I'm looking at the same one that you got.

 

[jimmied]

SO I am considering a new trailer for camping...Both around 19'. I prefer one camper but it is only single axle, coming in about 3200 dry. The other is a double axle but comes in closer to 3700. I know the double carries the load better, is a safer, etc. But how does play out in the real world comparing weight but also being helped with the extra axle?

 

[KyleB4279]

SO I am considering a new trailer for camping...Both around 19'. I prefer one camper but it is only single axle, coming in about 3200 dry. The other is a double axle but comes in closer to 3700. I know the double carries the load better, is a safer, etc. But how does play out in the real world comparing weight but also being helped with the extra axle?

Jimmied,

I went from a single axle jayco to a double axle. I much prefer the double axle. It's more stable, and there's an extra axle for braking effort.

Also - some camper manufacturers only use a 3500lb axle on single axle trailers. My 17 foot Jayco had a 3500lb single axle but they rated the camper for 3950GVWR - which doesn't make sense. I could tell the axle springs were under a lot of stress too even when it was fully unloaded since they were already more than halfway compressed to the frame. My new 21 foot has dual 3500lb axles and is rated at 5500lbs GVWR so there's a lot more wiggle room for the axle load as well.

I've noticed a difference in driving around with the double vs single axle that it takes bumps in the road a lot better too. If I hit a rough patch in the single axle it would pull around a bit and the trailer would shake a lot side to side, not so much with the doubles.

 

[jimmied]

Jimmied,

I went from a single axle jayco to a double axle. I much prefer the double axle. It's more stable, and there's an extra axle for braking effort.

Also - some camper manufacturers only use a 3500lb axle on single axle trailers. My 17 foot Jayco had a 3500lb single axle but they rated the camper for 3950GVWR - which doesn't make sense. I could tell the axle springs were under a lot of stress too even when it was fully unloaded since they were already more than halfway compressed to the frame. My new 21 foot has dual 3500lb axles and is rated at 5500lbs GVWR so there's a lot more wiggle room for the axle load as well.

I've noticed a difference in driving around with the double vs single axle that it takes bumps in the road a lot better too. If I hit a rough patch in the single axle it would pull around a bit and the trailer would shake a lot side to side, not so much with the doubles.

SO you would say the extra weight is negated a bit in terms of towing because of the extra support from the additional axle? I love the GeoPro camper but they are only single axle, no leaf springs. The NoBo has an option for the double axle but not all the features I would want "stock"

BTW, I am currently towing an "upgraded" pop that we love but its time to move on. It's a great pop up but we are ready for a small hard sided camper. Keeping it small enough to sleep and have showers/bathroom if needed and be large enough for the kids to get too comfortable. LOL

 

[KyleB4279]

SO you would say the extra weight is negated a bit in terms of towing because of the extra support from the additional axle? I love the GeoPro camper but they are only single axle, no leaf springs. The NoBo has an option for the double axle but not all the features I would want "stock"

BTW, I am currently towing an "upgraded" pop that we love but its time to move on. It's a great pop up but we are ready for a small hard sided camper. Keeping it small enough to sleep and have showers/bathroom if needed and be large enough for the kids to get too comfortable. LOL

Yes, the extra weight is more balanced by the support of second axle - for my experience. I should have added as well, that I went to a different weight distribution hitch when I got my larger Jayco as well. That may also have helped with my stability as well.

Honestly, if the GeoPro has everything you want and need - go for it. One thing I would advise you to look, and has been mentioned before in this thread is the tongue weight. As soon as you get a full propane tank and fill up the front storage in the camper that will start to add up. Get a good weight distribution hitch. I recommend the Fastway E2 6000lb trunnion. It has built in sway control (which is very important with any trailer over 2500lbs), you can reverse without having to disconnect it, and properly set up it makes towing a much more pleasant experience - single or dual axle trailer.

 

[Dzldust]

Just found this today,
LOAD-LEVELING SYSTEM (Rear) (For +400lbs of Added Weight)
may give it a try,I’m currently stock height with my 2021 4runner but wanted to level it out and have a set of Bilstein 5100’s that I have yet to install ,I was initially going to add a rear 1” spacer and airbags .I’m pulling a 3100lb Micro Minnie camper

 

[Dzldust]

Well scratch the adjustable coil setup, after researching it you can’t just crank it up or down ,too much pressure from the coils ,looks like it’s back the original plan of 2” front coils and 1” coils out back with airbags when I tow

 

[SRF-R-E]

How much does size matter?

Hello! First post here, but not new to Toyota 4wd's. I've had an '83, '86 Turbo SR5, '92, '95, '69 FJ40, '85 FJ60, and my new 2022 4R SR5P.

I've been reading EVERYTHING about towing a travel trailer with a 4Runner. I've learned that just because you can tow 5k, doesn't mean you should. 3500 seems to be the breaking point from casual driving to no fun at all.

I've had Class C and A rv's, so we're downsizing quite a bit. I want a comfortable drive. I'm used to the high revving Ford V10's, and the T4R is similar. I don't want to be stressed out. We will cross the country, but not through the Rockies.


I've narrowed down to these 2 trailers and wonder if I'd really feel the difference in 500 lbs or the extra 2-1/2' of length. The Murphy bed in the larger one is really appealing, while all other features are identical.

Sun Lite 16bh:
16-1/2' long
7'-6" wide
about 100" to the roof, not AC, w/out lift
2500 dry
3500 max

Sun Lite 18rd:
19' long
7'-6" wide
about 100" to the roof, not AC, w/out lift
3000 dry
4000 max


Stock suspension, with 265/75-17 BFG KO2's Load C getting mounted on FJ steelies. I'll get SumoSprings or airbags for the rear. Sumos were awesome on my last Class A RV, much better than the airbags that kept blowing a line at 50 psi.
It doesn't sound like I'll need a WD hitch for the smaller size - nor does it seem to be recommended for the factory hitch. The jury must be still out on fitting a 4th Gen hitch WITH spare tire, because none of the threads I found say yes.


Pics for visual reference, unfortunately I can't find any with a T4R. Some models are available with flipped axle and more clearance.


Get the shorter one, or go for the bigger one and suck it up?

 

[Jetboy]

Hello! First post here, but not new to Toyota 4wd's. I've had an '83, '86 Turbo SR5, '92, '95, '69 FJ40, '85 FJ60, and my new 2022 4R SR5P.

I've been reading EVERYTHING about towing a travel trailer with a 4Runner. I've learned that just because you can tow 5k, doesn't mean you should. 3500 seems to be the breaking point from casual driving to no fun at all.

I've had Class C and A rv's, so we're downsizing quite a bit. I want a comfortable drive. I'm used to the high revving Ford V10's, and the T4R is similar. I don't want to be stressed out. We will cross the country, but not through the Rockies.

I've narrowed down to these 2 trailers and wonder if I'd really feel the difference in 500 lbs or the extra 2-1/2' of length. The Murphy bed in the larger one is really appealing, while all other features are identical.

Sun Lite 16bh:
16-1/2' long
7'-6" wide
about 100" to the roof, not AC, w/out lift
2500 dry
3500 max

Sun Lite 18rd:
19' long
7'-6" wide
about 100" to the roof, not AC, w/out lift
3000 dry
4000 max



I'll get SumoSprings or airbags for the rear, and it doesn't sound like I'll need a WD hitch for the size - nor does it seem to be recommended for the factory hitch. The jury seems to be out on fitting a 4th Gen hitch WITH spare tire.

Pics for visual reference, unfortunately I can't find any with a T4R. Some models are available with flipped axle and more clearance.


Get the shorter one, or go for the bigger one and suck it up?

I don't think you'll notice any difference. It's the wind drag you'll feel most. And the longer one will have slightly lower drag. It might actually pull easier at speed. I'd bet you'll get better mpg with the longer one.

 

[RockyMtnT4R]

I'll get SumoSprings or airbags for the rear. Sumos were awesome on my last Class A RV, much better than the airbags that kept blowing a line at 50 psi.

We pull a A-liner with an empty weight of 1,800 lbs. So a bit lighter than what you have in mind and with a considerably less wind resistance (pop-up). It's not all that bad even with the steep grades and elevation we have here. I can't imagine that a 500 lbs. difference is going to matter. In either case, just don't be in a hurry and enjoy the scenery, it's all just part of the experience.

We also considered Timbrens/SumoSprings, but in the end opted for airbags given the dual purpose of the T4R.

 

[Ascole]

Why don’t you hook them both up at the dealership and tow them around for 30 minutes. You’ll be able to compare weight differences and truck/trailer compatibility. Make sure you find steeper grades (5-7%), make some tighter turns, and figure out stopping distance.

I wouldn’t want to get into a trailer that I’m not 100% happy and comfortable hauling down the street let alone around the country.


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[SRF-R-E]

I'm going to try and get a test drive with the shorter one this Friday. They said they may be able to accommodate. We'll see.

I believe that the journey is often better than the destination, and I don't want a stressful journey to ruin my destination!

 

[10KftinColorado]

We pull a A-liner with an empty weight of 1,800 lbs. So a bit lighter than what you have in mind and with a considerably less wind resistance (pop-up). It's not all that bad even with the steep grades and elevation we have here. I can't imagine that a 500 lbs. difference is going to matter. In either case, just don't be in a hurry and enjoy the scenery, it's all just part of the experience.

We also considered Timbrens/SumoSprings, but in the end opted for airbags given the dual purpose of the T4R.

I just got a 2022 T4R Off Road and live at elevation (10,000 ft) in Colorado. I'm looking at an A-liner Ranger 12, same weight as yours, because I want to stay light with little wind resistance. The trailer dealer suggests that no modifications to the vehicle, weight distribution or sway should be needed. I plan to use it in the hot desert too. Do you find that you need any of these in the mountains, or a transmission cooler? You mention airbags. How does it handle on steep grades with constant curves like we have? What is your average mpg with the A-liner? Do you like it as a camper? I wonder if making modifications affects the new vehicle warranty.

 

[RockyMtnT4R]

I just got a 2022 T4R Off Road and live at elevation (10,000 ft) in Colorado. I'm looking at an A-liner Ranger 12, same weight as yours, because I want to stay light with little wind resistance. The trailer dealer suggests that no modifications to the vehicle, weight distribution or sway should be needed. I plan to use it in the hot desert too. Do you find that you need any of these in the mountains, or a transmission cooler? You mention airbags. How does it handle on steep grades with constant curves like we have? What is your average mpg with the A-liner? Do you like it as a camper? I wonder if making modifications affects the new vehicle warranty.

The Ranger 12 is what we've got as well. We pulled it all over the state last year and even took a trip down to Big Bend (if you haven't been, I highly recommend it). We were completely stock all last summer and although your not the fastest rig up I-70, your not the slowest either. A big key for us was to plan ahead and get over before getting stuck behind the 18 wheeler, bus, or motorhome... Once you get stuck behind them doing 15 mph, getting out and back up to speed on a steep incline is painful! I just keep it in S4 and will drop it down to S3 or even S2 depending on our speed and the grade.

We've really enjoyed the trailer, big enough to give us something to get out of the weather when necessary, but easy to pull, park, etc. We haven't used a weight distribution hitch or sway, and as long as we load the trailer properly haven't had any issues. There was some squat, but not bad. We added the airbags as part of our lift a couple of weeks ago. We did however add the Redarc Pro Tow Elite brake controller which I would recommend. Most times we are in the 15-16 mpg but that can decrease considerably if I start to push it a bit.

 

[10KftinColorado]

The Ranger 12 is what we've got as well. We pulled it all over the state last year and even took a trip down to Big Bend (if you haven't been, I highly recommend it). We were completely stock all last summer and although your not the fastest rig up I-70, your not the slowest either. A big key for us was to plan ahead and get over before getting stuck behind the 18 wheeler, bus, or motorhome... Once you get stuck behind them doing 15 mph, getting out and back up to speed on a steep incline is painful! I just keep it in S4 and will drop it down to S3 or even S2 depending on our speed and the grade.

We've really enjoyed the trailer, big enough to give us something to get out of the weather when necessary, but easy to pull, park, etc. We haven't used a weight distribution hitch or sway, and as long as we load the trailer properly haven't had any issues. There was some squat, but not bad. We added the airbags as part of our lift a couple of weeks ago. We did however add the Redarc Pro Tow Elite brake controller which I would recommend. Most times we are in the 15-16 mpg but that can decrease considerably if I start to push it a bit.

Thanks for the feedback, appreciated! I do plan for the brake controller but it's good to hear you do fine otherwise. I'm still not sure whether a transmission cooler would be useful in summer but might ask Toyota about it. After many years with a VW camper I'm already very familiar with life in the slow lane.

 

[Titan_Bow]

I towed this around most of the summer and it was pretty painful going up I-70. Even the drive up 287 into the Snowies was a little frustrating. Just gotta take your time and be patient. One thing I noticed is that holy hell does it kill your gas mileage! My trailer is around 1300lbs empty and probably close to 2k full of all our gear.


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[Ascole]

My teardrop is 2k+ lbs and pulling grades over 4% for extended periods of time in warmer weather will heat my transmission up to 245 degrees and sometimes higher. I’ll be adding a transmission cooler before the summer months hit
A scan gauge or some other way of monitoring trans temp is very helpful when towing in the mountains.


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[10KftinColorado]

I talked with the Toyota service manager and he emphatically assured that the stock 4Runner is completely capable of towing 2500 pounds across the Mojave Desert in 110 degrees with no added transmission cooler, regardless of internal temperature. As for after-market additions and the warranty, it only affects the warranty if the component itself causes a specific problem. So, maybe a risk to add one? There's a reason the 4Runner has such a good reputation and it's not because transmissions fail. With 99,700 miles left on the warranty they gave me, I guess any problem will be on Toyota to take care of for a long time to come, but it doesn't sound like one should happen.

 

[RockyMtnT4R]

I talked with the Toyota service manager and he emphatically assured that the stock 4Runner is completely capable of towing 2500 pounds across the Mojave Desert in 110 degrees with no added transmission cooler, regardless of internal temperature. As for after-market additions and the warranty, it only affects the warranty if the component itself causes a specific problem. So, maybe a risk to add one? There's a reason the 4Runner has such a good reputation and it's not because transmissions fail. With 99,700 miles left on the warranty they gave me, I guess any problem will be on Toyota to take care of for a long time to come, but it doesn't sound like one should happen.

I was told basically the same thing. I figure I'll follow the Maintenance Schedule (Special Operating Conditions) as outlined by the manufacturer. But as the vehicle may spend a more-than-normal percentage of its time off road and/or pulling a trailer I may accelerate certain items (transmission fluid being one of them). In the end everyone needs to do what they are comfortable with.