Toyota: [Falling] Quality is Job One

[Thai]

You need to look on ES350 forums...the tranny issue will be a sludge problem soon enough...or how about Tacoma's rear end grenading...Highlander/RX330 tranny short lifespan....

All of these issues are dimissed by Toyota or given a half-ass fix.

This is not to say that Toyota is worst than other manufacturers. They are better than some, but they are not perfect nor do they listen to owners all that much. They do listen to $$$$...like they fix the GX's clunk but not 4runner's...they ain't no angels...no better than other manufacturers.

 

[dwm2112]

How do you explain the millions of engines identical to yours that have no sludge problems? Everyone is always innocent.....

How do you explain millions of other people running around who are not as blindly faithful and trusting to Toyota as you are? Toyota has real issues just as other manufacturers do and they are as a percentage of product produced increasing year over year. Sales are increasing but defects are increasing faster. I have been driving Toyota's for 26 years now and I can say that based upon my personal experience today's products are not as solid as they have been in the past. Most of this in my mind is engineering not being what it once was.

 

[Northof49]

How do you explain millions of other people running around who are not as blindly faithful and trusting to Toyota as you are? Toyota has real issues just as other manufacturers do and they are as a percentage of product produced increasing year over year. Sales are increasing but defects are increasing faster. I have been driving Toyota's for 26 years now and I can say that based upon my personal experience today's products are not as solid as they have been in the past. Most of this in my mind is engineering not being what it once was.

Did you actually read my posts, of just the lines it took to say I have blind faith? If dismissing a (questionable) 1% failure rate, in which the owner and 3rd party products (oil) can have have a large impact is having blind faith, I guess I'm guilty. I've said 3 times now that Toyota has problems as well, and have offered as many widespread Toyota problems as anyone else. You want me to talk about Toyota problems and I can make a list, some you've probably never heard of, and plenty of major issues with older models.

 

[dwm2112]

Did you actually read my posts, of just the lines it took to say I have blind faith? If dismissing a (questionable) 1% failure rate, in which the owner and 3rd party products (oil) can have have a large impact is having blind faith, I guess I'm guilty. I've said 3 times now that Toyota has problems as well, and have offered as many widespread Toyota problems as anyone else. You want me to talk about Toyota problems and I can make a list, some you've probably never heard of, and plenty of major issues with older models.

Yes, I read your posts and you appear to be a wonderful defender of the faith! Great slight of hand and very dismissive of Toyota issues while flagrantly stating other manufacturers have problems.... Did I miss something?

 

[Northof49]

Yes, I read your posts and you appear to be a wonderful defender of the faith! Great slight of hand and very dismissive of Toyota issues while flagrantly stating other manufacturers have problems.... Did I miss something?

I came to Toyota's defense against an article and other posters who I thought were exagerating issues one way. Naturally, my response was weighted to the other to illustrate my points. As stated earlier, I simply feel Toyota/Lexus makes as good a vehicle as anyone....nothing more, nothing less, and that sure as hell doesn't insinuate said products are perfect. If it's mechanical and built/designed by humans....it ain't perfect.

I tried to demostrate that they seem to catch a little extra flack in the media for otherwise mundane issues, some may disagree, but that's the point of a discussion board. Remember a round of Car and Driver 4x4 comparison tests that had the board up in arms a year or 2 ago because it wasn't in our (4R owners) favour....same deal.

You would seem to quite enjoy Toyotas as well with 26 years of ownership. I certainly don't have that kind of dedication

 

[Falls]

I personally don't think Toyota is falling. They are in the spot light because of their success and every single issue will be pointed out , especially since it is a foreign car company.

My domestic truck have all been pretty good , no major issues , but have had a lot of recalls over the years.

As with anything mechanical there will be problems , as with any engineering there will be problems. It does not matter who makes it . It is what it is . My family is all pro GM , even after problem after problem. They are ok with it so thats all that matters.

I so far have had good luck with my Toyota ( knock wood ) I have a nice mid-size SUV thats rugged and tough and actually built like a truck and I'm happy with that. If I had a tranny go out on my Toyota I would be bummed , but would not condemn the whole product line or not buy another one.

Sometimes people read to deep into all this stuff. Bottom line for ME PERSONALLY , if it gives me good service , has good value , dealership treats me well , I'm happy .

 

[Koz]

It is human nature to attack the leader. Despite all the issues that have come up, Toyota has become the #1 manufacture in the WORLD, they are still the most reliable brand on the market and they have highest profit margin of any other manufacture. The internal concerns were generated because their annual growth has SLOWED because they just laid out over a BILLION dollars for the new plant in Texas. Anyone who thinks Toyota is on a DEATHWATCH is fooling themselves and sadly mistaken.

Koz

 

[peter78]

It is human nature to attack the leader.
Koz

I agree. In the April issue of Consumer Reports they had a graph on how cars hold up over the years and Toyota was by far the best company. To prove the point they had a picture of a 6 or 8 year old Lexus and they said the older Lexus is more reliable than a brand new Mercedes.

I am actually looking for a new car this year to replace my 92 Honda. I have pretty much narrowed it down to 2 brand new Toyota's or possibly a used 3rd generation 4Runner.

 

[Falls]

It is human nature to attack the leader. Despite all the issues that have come up, Toyota has become the #1 manufacture in the WORLD, they are still the most reliable brand on the market and they have highest profit margin of any other manufacture. The internal concerns were generated because their annual growth has SLOWED because they just laid out over a BILLION dollars for the new plant in Texas. Anyone who thinks Toyota is on a DEATHWATCH is fooling themselves and sadly mistaken.

Koz

Agreed !! Good points.

 

[mkaresh]

As I argue in this blog entry, I don't think recalls will hurt Toyota's rep.

FWIW, "campaign" is the same thing, it's the official term for recall used by all manufacturers to avoid the negative connotations of "recall."

Instead, their rep would take a serious hit if people have major problems, like the sludge, and Toyota failed to step up. To their credit, they realized this, and eventually did step up.

As someone else notes, the next biggee will be the new six-speed automatic used in the ES and Camry. I conduct reliability research, and at least two of my panel members have had transmissions replaced already, with under 10,000 miles. (The Lexus of one had other issues as well, and was bought back.)

It's sounding a lot like Honda's 1999-2003 transmission problems. As with Honda, I suspect that a free 100,000-mile (or more) extended transmission warranty will be the eventual response.

 

[Koz]

The fact is Toyota tried to divert the sludge bullet, but a lawsuit from a Lexus owner proved he followed the maint schedule and still had the problem. Toyota then stepped up but still was handed a class action suit for all the affect vehicles, which hurt. This type of scenario is common in this business. It probably was still cheaper to settle the suits then to admit the failure and fix all the effected vehicles. What Toyota found out is they should have stepped up right away.

Toyota has addressed several other major problems since the sludge problem and as of recent is actually doing much better. At no time was Toyota experiencing more problems/failures then any other manufactures. What made it big news was, this was unusual for Toyota and everyone seemed to love throwing shit on them (hoping some will stick). Again, some people think that by throwing shit on the leader, it will divert attention away from their problems.

The biggest difference between the Domestics and Toyota is, Toyota learns from their mistakes and makes changes.

Koz

 

[Thai]

Anyone who thinks Toyota is on a DEATHWATCH is fooling themselves and sadly mistaken.
Koz

So is blind enthusiasm....:

 

[Koz]

There is a reason why Toyota has CRUSHED all the domestic manufactures and it was not blind enthusiasm!

Koz

 

[dwm2112]

There is a reason why Toyota has CRUSHED all the domestic manufactures and it was not blind enthusiasm!

Koz

The reason they grew and advanced was because they had better engineering & manufacturing and were producing the right products at the right time. The challenging part of growing fast is keeping all of the virtues that popelled you in place and they like virtually any company going through that type of growth are struggling to do so. The saving grace for Toyota is they have a long way to fall before they reach the rest of the crowd and thus have ample time to get their internal virtues back in line.

 

[Koz]

Growing fast? Toyota Motor Co., Ltd. was established in 1937.

Their first car.

Koz

 

[Koz]

Deathwatch :infidel:

Tokyo

 

[dwm2112]

But when did their massive growth occur?

Based upon their most recent annual report they are increasing production at a rate of 500K additional per year and were expected to finish off the current physical year at 8.45 million units. Contrast that to 5.2M only 5 years earlier and that is a 62.5% growth rate in 5 years. I would bet they don't have another 5 year period in their history with that growth rate as a percentage and am positive they have never increased their production by 3.25M units in a 5 year period.

 

[Koz]

Their growth rate has slowed at approx 11% per year because they are, as you can see, building for the future.

Koz

 

[dwm2112]

Some news for you. Anything growing at over 10% per year is screaiming and 99+ percent of the business out there would kill to have it. I work for a company that has average over 10% growth for the past 8 years and one of the largest challenges is keeping the core values intact while growing the business at that rate.

 

[Koz]

What a thing to have to worry about!

Koz