Jetboy
New member
You should go to a Toyota factory. My brother worked for a consulting engineering firm that Toyota hired to speed up the stamping die change over between models. Toyota was doing it in IIRC around 8 minutes and wanted to get down to around 3 minutes. The next closest factory was a BMW factor that took something like 5 hours to do it. They asked why Toyota needed it and the answer was - we don't care what anyone else does, we think it can be faster, so we want it faster.
The point being that Toyota does not batch manufacture its vehicles and the factories are designed to switch not only between options, but between any vehicle that the factory runs in any order. If you go to the Houston plant you'll see a red tacoma 2dr 2wd in front of a white Tundra crewmax, in front of a cement 4x4 tacoma. Toyota likely has the best production facilities in the world at customizing vehicles on the assembly line. They only build to order and only build as spec'd so there is no inventory sitting at the factory like the big3. You'll never see a factory produce a 5,000 white tundras in a row - unless there's an order for 5,000 white tundras. That's pretty different from GM or Ford.
I've been to two of Toyota's factories in Japan as well. Same thing there.
Putting the 4.6l v8 in a 4Runner would be a non-issue. The 4Runner already has IIRC 5 different frames used depending on model. They are all pretty similar, but not the same. The GX has a different frame as well that's 1" shorter in the rear. But they all share 99% of the components. And Toyota initially did sell the 5th gen with two engine options. IIRC there's something like 7 different engines in the 150 platform now coming out of the same factory. In north america we only get 2 of them and only 1 is in the 4Runner. But they're surely modular units that could go in any configuration without too much effort.
The 5AT has 6th gear internally. The transmission has the same gear train and case as the 6AT. Internally except for one clutch bell mechanism the two are literally identical down to the part numbers for every gear, bearing, and clutch including the housing. One part of the 6th gear clutch is left out in the 5AT, because it can't shift into 6th gear, so why put it in. But it really is a 6AT, that only shifts into 5 gears. The lower end valve bodies are different. Changing to the 6AT would cost effectively nothing at all. And so this is kinda where the idea that universalizing parts saves money falls apart. Toyota could reduce the transmissions to a single one - the 6AT for all 150 platforms. But it still builds a 5 speed version of the same transmission by just not using 6th gear. Why? I have a hard time explaining this one. I can't think of any reason other than just pure laziness. That's what we put in and it's what we're going to keep using...
Toyota already makes OEM gears that would work. Toyota makes 4.56 gears for the rear end already. There's an OEM part number. Toyota does not currently cut 4.56 front gears, but again - that should be a non-issue. It cuts 3.73, 3.91, and 4.30 front diff gears. The 6AT and 4.30 or 4.56 diffs would be great - even with just the v6 and 6AT.
The 5th gen was really competitive when it came out. In 2010 it was on par with comparable models. It was a pretty big deal to be able to both run the rubicon stock-ish, and then go podium finish in the Baja 1000. It literally did better in the Baja 1000 than Ford has ever finished with a Raptor and also could hustle through the Rubicon. That's pretty damn impressive for something you can also comfortably jump in for a thousand mile road trip. The times I've been down to the Rubicon it's 700 miles each way. And the 4Runner can cruise comfortably for 1400 miles round trip, and still run the trail when you're there. It's a great vehicle.
What the frustration is for me is that once you start wanting to go a bit further than stock it gets really difficult and expensive. And the changes we'd like are not rocket science, or expensive, or difficult. And they're just not happening. Nothing is happening. Toyota is just sitting doing nothing. And not just the 4Runner. The Tacoma arguably got worse with the 3rd gen. The Tundra hasn't been updated in over a decade. I'm not really sure how the Sequoia still exists. The GX is probably right where it should be - except it gets terrible mpg. And the LC200 - it's great but 13mpg? I think there are kenworths that can approach that with an empty trailer. All of those models were top of class or near it when they were introduced.
The problem isn't so much the products at introduction, but the frequency of new products. And Toyota knows it. They've spoken publicly about the failure to update their products. Especially the Lexus lineup that's out of date almost entirely across the board. And then the update to the IS is new dash vent shapes? Really Toyota - that's the great new update? Round dash vents?
When you see 6 speeds in a Yaris (the cheapest car they sell), and they won't even allow us to use the 6th gear that's already in the transmission we have - it's frustrating.
And what's more frustrating is that toyota really does build a better transmission. And a better engine. And better axles. The Toyota axle design is objectively better than the Dana 44. The differential is more compact and stronger. The drop our 3rd is sooo much better than having to build a diff in the housing. It's not really close IMO. The Aisin transmissions are better than Ford or ZF transmissions. Toyota's engines are better than comparable Chrysler or Ford engines. Toyota uses higher quality and larger size bearings in almost every scenario compared to competitors. Toyota's cold forging processes are second to none. I just really want Toyota to give a damn about the 4Runner. I don't really want a bronco. I want a modern 4Runner or land cruiser.
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