Trail Edition Questions and Need Help

[Dino9803]

Hi Guys. I’m a complete newbie to the forum and this is my first post. I’ve done some browsing around on the site and the web but I haven’t been able to find the information that I’m looking for. And I’m sorry in advance that this post is a little lengthy!

I’m in the market for a new Trail Edition and I’ve taken a couple of test drives of one at a nearby dealership. I love the truck and I’m drawn to it over the Limited and SR5 because I really like the looks of the black plastic fender flairs and the trim on the bumpers. But on the other hand, I’m a little concerned on the overall quality of the pieces. It seems that the material is made up of the same kind of plastic that they make mud flaps out of. It’s been my experience that this kind of plastic scratches really easily and fades too.

I’m going to be having this truck for a very long time and I’m worried that the plastic is not going to stand up well. I guess I’m asking the guys with the TE models if they’ve had good luck with this or is it a maintenance nightmare.

The other question revolves around the rear axle. The TE axle has an open differential with the locking feature. I had a Tacoma Off Road edition with this same axle and I wasn’t very happy with the way the truck handled on snow covered roadways. Keep in mind that the locking dif only engages in 4 wheel low.

Every other truck I’ve owned had a limited slip difs and a number of time I never had to switch into 4WD to get the truck to handle through the snow. More times than not, I was engaging my Taco’s 4WD just to keep the truck from getting all squirrely. Is this about the same story with the TE or does the A-Trac and stability control help that dramatically? I don’t know if the ABS engaging on the wheel that’s slipping can really take the place of a true limit slip differential.

Again, I’m sorry for how wordy this post is but I don’t want to make a $36,000 mistake! I appreciate any input you guys might have! Great forum and thanks in advance!

 

[Jeremy556]

Plastic: scratches about as easily as paint, obviously can’t be buffed out. Mine are all scratched up, but I don’t care, my doors and other panels are just as scratched from branches.

Axle: Locker is manually engaged, and you wouldn’t use it on snow covered road unless you were stuck, and immediately turn it off. Open differential will be the best handling setup in slippery conditions on road. The T4R will do better on slick roads because it has much more weight over the rear axle.

LSD: T4R has auto-LSD, basically just uses the brakes to slow a spinning wheel, and you are correct, it is not as good as mechanical LSD. TRAC is regular traction control that will use the brakes and re**** power to keep slipping under control. A-TRAC only works in 4LO, is much more aggressive with brake application, and does not re**** throttle.

If you are driving in the snow, use 4WD. It will provide better traction and engine braking, and there is no reason not to use it.

 

[westwind77]

LSD: T4R has auto-LSD, basically just uses the brakes to slow a spinning wheel, and you are correct, it is not as good as mechanical LSD.

Only the 2WD of the 4R's has an LSD, N/A in the 4WD models, they assume 4WD, TRAC, and A-TRAC will be enough (and the locking diff in the TE).

 

[nw_4Runner]

Every other truck I’ve owned had a limited slip difs and a number of time I never had to switch into 4WD to get the truck to handle through the snow. More times than not, I was engaging my Taco’s 4WD just to keep the truck from getting all squirrely.

I'll be flamed for this, but the squirrely-ness you're talking about it common to part time 4WD systems; you're compensating for the spin after-the-fact, because it's hard to predict and anticipate when your driving on a road where conditions are constantly changing (from snow, to ice, to dry roads). I know a lot of guys here will tell me to man-up, and they have more control, and are better at determining when to put into 4WD. However, after 17 years in Alaska and a number in Washington/Oregon (driving to weekend ski resorts), and many other passes in Idaho and Montana... fact is, you typically don't want to constantly be in 4WD (or changing into/out of it) at highway speeds (of 50+MPH) when the conditions are changing from dry, to wet, to ice, to snow. And this is why Subarus rule for the average sportsman in these states.

So for me, it really depends on where you live - if you're in a place where snow is either there or not, then get a part time 4WD system. If you're driving through constantly changing conditions, consider the full-time 4WD system in the Limited.

All that said, would like to hear some real-world feedback from guys who have a Trail (esp. those living in places where weather can dole out 5 different conditions on the same road over a 5 mile stretch) and how the traction is before an obvious tug on the part time 4WD will help. That is, how is (electronic/mechanical) traction in 2WD before you feel 4WD is needed, as the OP asked?

PS - where is the damn hide behind the couch guy when you need it?

 

[Dino9803]

Thanks for the reply guys! The information is very much appreciated.

My old Tacoma left kind of a bad taste in my mouth on how poor it handled on the snow covered roads compared to the other trucks I owned. I'm guessing/hoping that I won't run into the same issue with the TE with all the electronic gizmos it has.

 

[Wepps]

For what it's worth. I owned a 2003 Tacoma and a 2005 Tacoma. I've driven both in snowy conditions and felt alright in them. Mind you I grew up in southern AZ and never had to drive on those conditions.

I have a 2010 Trail that I've lifted, added an ARB and a winch and I do take off highway. Honestly, my plastic looks a lot better then the pin striping I've accrued.

The new 4Runner's, Trail included have VSC and even in the snow without anything turned on it's difficult to get the rig squirrelly. The VSC senses something is amiss and compensates so you don't slip or spin out.

 

[20034RunnerV84x2]

Every other truck I’ve owned had a limited slip difs and a number of time I never had to switch into 4WD to get the truck to handle through the snow. More times than not, I was engaging my Taco’s 4WD just to keep the truck from getting all squirrely.

I'll be flamed for this, but the squirrely-ness you're talking about it common to part time 4WD systems; you're compensating for the spin after-the-fact, because it's hard to predict and anticipate when your driving on a road where conditions are constantly changing (from snow, to ice, to dry roads). I know a lot of guys here will tell me to man-up, and they have more control, and are better at determining when to put into 4WD. However, after 17 years in Alaska and a number in Washington/Oregon (driving to weekend ski resorts), and many other passes in Idaho and Montana... fact is, you typically don't want to constantly be in 4WD (or changing into/out of it) at highway speeds (of 50+MPH) when the conditions are changing from dry, to wet, to ice, to snow. And this is why Subarus rule for the average sportsman in these states.

So for me, it really depends on where you live - if you're in a place where snow is either there or not, then get a part time 4WD system. If you're driving through constantly changing conditions, consider the full-time 4WD system in the Limited.

All that said, would like to hear some real-world feedback from guys who have a Trail (esp. those living in places where weather can dole out 5 different conditions on the same road over a 5 mile stretch) and how the traction is before an obvious tug on the part time 4WD will help. That is, how is (electronic/mechanical) traction in 2WD before you feel 4WD is needed, as the OP asked?

PS - where is the damn hide behind the couch guy when you need it?

:hiding: < hes right there!! ! :Biggrin2:

 

[Curt Sauve]

Thanks for the reply guys! The information is very much appreciated.

My old Tacoma left kind of a bad taste in my mouth on how poor it handled on the snow covered roads compared to the other trucks I owned. I'm guessing/hoping that I won't run into the same issue with the TE with all the electronic gizmos it has.

I also live in the upper midwest and drive on alot of glazed hardpack. I would not own a T4R if the Torsen center diff wasn't an option. Been there, done that.

 

[Dino9803]

I think NW summed it up well with another point I was thinking of. There are a lot of times where keeping a truck in four wheel high is unwanted or even dangerous on the road. When there are spotty patches between clean pavement and shallow, drifting snow I always perferred to keep it out of 4WD and rely on a LSD and decent tires to get me through.

I think a Limited might be the way to go with a more "intelligent" full time 4WD system and the LSD.

 

[tjnaples]

Thank you for "browsing" and not "lurking."

 

[Dino9803]

I've never been a stalker TJ and I don't own a long trench coat either.

 

[453030]

All that said, would like to hear some real-world feedback from guys who have a Trail (esp. those living in places where weather can dole out 5 different conditions on the same road over a 5 mile stretch) and how the traction is before an obvious tug on the part time 4WD will help. That is, how is (electronic/mechanical) traction in 2WD before you feel 4WD is needed, as the OP asked?

When I first test drove a Trail in 2010, the salesperson let me take it out alone. It was snowing but had been warm. The side roads were getting covered with a wet snow. I tried several times to shake the back end loose on a corner and could not do it. I was accelerating faster than I typically would. The traction control is very responsive and kept the truck from ever wanting to go sideways.

Icey roads can be much more demanding. Still, in 2WD, I have never once been going along and all of a sudden had a surprise loss of traction. Never once felt like the truck was about to get out of control. I can recall a single instance on the highway when the road was extremely icey and I had to stop going up a hill for an accident. When I started forward again my Duratracs were slipping and I used 4WD for that stretch. Other than that, I have rarely used it on snow, and never in rain, so I say the 2WD traction is just fine.

 

[Dino9803]

Big thanks 453030! I've gotten a couple of PM's from guys who also own Trail Editions who've said that their trucks handle well in a variety of road conditions. In all honesty, I was a little gun shy about the Trail after owning a Tacoma Off Road but I have no fears now.

 

[453030]

Big thanks 453030! I've gotten a couple of PM's from guys who also own Trail Editions who've said that their trucks handle well in a variety of road conditions. In all honesty, I was a little gun shy about the Trail after owning a Tacoma Off Road but I have no fears now.

My pleasure. My Dad has a 2006 Tacoma on BFG all terrains and in 2WD it is nothing like my Trail in 2WD. Obviously the extra weight of the 4Runner makes a big difference. I think it comes down to knowing you are in 2WD when driving on slick roads, and if it gets uncomfortable or you are slipping more than you like you just pull that old school lever and you're set.

 

[scanny]

All that said, would like to hear some real-world feedback from guys who have a Trail (esp. those living in places where weather can dole out 5 different conditions on the same road over a 5 mile stretch) and how the traction is before an obvious tug on the part time 4WD will help. That is, how is (electronic/mechanical) traction in 2WD before you feel 4WD is needed, as the OP asked?

Although I have SR5 but it's still the same part-time 4WD as in trail. Normally I turn on 4x4 when there's snow or slush or I feel that road might be slippery and turn it off when highway becomes dry. I do it mostly for additional stability and to make sure that transfer case is lubricated (you have t drive in 4hi at least 10 miles in a month). Highways normally don't have sharp turns so even when road is slightly wet 4HI is not going to kill transfer case. In city driving I rarely use 4x4 - only when it's snowing and road completely covered. But even in fresh show 2WD is enough unless you try to climb on a slippery hill or have 2 feet of fresh snow : ) When I start in 2WD on snow all electronics start beeping, clicking and flashing lights on dashborad but truck moves straight after some hesitaion. When you're in 4WD, it justs moves straight as there no show at all. So in my experience I switch to 4HI when I have a chance even if I don't really need it, but 2WD is quite adequate in winter in my opinion.

 

[Greg_Canada]

Best way not to get squirrely in snow is to get proper snow tires! Then you can drive around in 2wd no problem! (this goes for any car/truck). Driving in snow is 75% tires!

 

[FatDave]

Welcome to the forum! :hello:

All that said, would like to hear some real-world feedback from guys who have a Trail (esp. those living in places where weather can dole out 5 different conditions on the same road over a 5 mile stretch) and how the traction is before an obvious tug on the part time 4WD will help. That is, how is (electronic/mechanical) traction in 2WD before you feel 4WD is needed, as the OP asked?

As was pointed out, the right tires are key.

I live in the mountains outside Boulder, CO at 6,500'. I like to keep my TE in 2wd for light snow, but, the rear end likes to swing out, and hills can be a problem.

I don't have any problems using 4hi.

No offense to nw, but my preference is to avoid driving 50+ on hard packed or icy roads. It's not the goin' that's the problem, it's the stoppin'.

4lo uses different gearing and supports some of the 4WD extras, like rear locker, but it's more of a last resort. And you have to be stopped to engage it. In prolonged use on any surface, it will get squirrely in turns (because both wheels are trying to turn at the same rate).

The full time feature of the Limited may suit you well if you mostly drive on pavement.

eace:

 

[Dino9803]

Everything being said, I think Toyota missed the boat a little bit when they decided to go with an open differential with the locker on the TE. I know that the hard core off roads guys would probably give up their wife before enduring the sacrifice of not having a locking dif. But how many times does the average guy get into a situation where they're balls deep into mud or rock crawling in 4WD low with the locker engaged. I'm not ranking on the TE! As a matter of fact it's my favorite of the three models. I just think that the majority of owners would appreciate a LSD for better overall control on snowy roads and better traction in "normal" off roading. To me, a locker is a last resort once you're buried in the mud and need a final option before you get winched out or start hoofing it to the nearest town. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Curt Sauve]

Everything being said, I think Toyota missed the boat a little bit when they decided to go with an open differential with the locker on the TE. I know that the hard core off roads guys would probably give up their wife before enduring the sacrifice of not having a locking dif. But how many times does the average guy get into a situation where they're balls deep into mud or rock crawling in 4WD low with the locker engaged. I'm not ranking on the TE! As a matter of fact it's my favorite of the three models. I just think that the majority of owners would appreciate a LSD for better overall control on snowy roads and better traction in "normal" off roading. To me, a locker is a last resort once you're buried in the mud and need a final option before you get winched out or start hoofing it to the nearest town. Just my humble opinion.

When the 5th gens came out, I was hoping the TE would have the Torsen center diff/multi mode that my 4th gen had, but it was not to be. Before I would buy a TE, I would build a dedicated rock/trail buggy out of an older Tacoma or 3rd gen T4R, and trailer it to the trailhead with my LE.

 

[36bound]

The black plastic not only adds to the look of the TE (just an opinion, of course), but it's actually functional in that it's considerably less costly to pop off and pop on a new piece of black plastic trim than it is to repaint. Jeep Wranglers have been relying on this for years.

My wife had a silver '09 Rav4 and the numerous rock chips (and resultant "touch up" paint blotches) on the front bumper and facia made it look like hell. We have since sold that Rav4 and now drive our '12 silver TE down the same roads without concern for unsightly chips.

Side bar: There is an excellent product on the market called "Forever Black" that will restore black plastic trim to showroom new condition. In less than two hours I can apply the product to every piece of black trim on my '07 Wrangler (bumpers, running boards, mirrors, door handles, mud guards, etc) and the plastic looks at least as nice as NEW for a year or more. FWIW.