Trailer Towing

[Nunyabiz]

I have looked at a few threads and see everything from "Oh yeah can tow 5000# uphill in a hurricane" to "I wouldn't want to drag tin cans during a wedding" and everything in between.

So not exactly sure what to think.

The trailer we are planning to get is one made in California at Pacific Coachworks.
Econ E16RB which fully loaded with all options and gear should be about 4000# at most and about a 370# hitch weight. That all should be max weight fully loaded for weeks of camping.

ECON Travel Trailer - Pacific Coachworks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwEutrSoMD8

This is really one of the best travel trailers I have found for the price, around $13,500 brand new with ALL options.
Only thing I do not like about it is it is single axle.

Would really like to find a USED Camplite if I could steal one for under $15,000, much lighter hitch weight about 250# or less and a few 100#s lighter overall but new they are around $25,000.

I have the heavier OME springs in the rear and decent shocks, have the Tundra brake upgrade and external trans cooler.
Thing is my wife and I are both retired and once we sell our house we plan on doing A LOT of camping, probably several months a year so this isn't going to be a once or twice a year few hundred miles a year type thing.
Should be probably towing it 3000+ miles a year.

What we get has to tow pretty darn good and not feel like I am hooking up to a house and dragging it down the road.

I used to tow my old 18' Boston Whaler with twin Yamaha's loaded to the hilt, I would have 600+# of fuel on board and each outboard weighed about 370# trailer was about 1200# with all gear etc it had to be pushing 5000#, nice twin axle trailer and I towed that for THOUSANDS of miles with an old Ford Bronco II that was only about 115hp and I even sand launched in the waves down in Mexico with it, no problems at all.

So I HAVE to believe my 4runner with 180+ HP and more torque should be able to tow a 4000# trailer decently.
My Boston Whaler had a good amount of windage also, had a Ttop with outriggers and full canvass.

So has anyone towed a trailer/camper of 4000# or so long distances with their 4Runner?

 

[ARC]

I could not imagine towing that often with a T4R sure you can do it, but I don't have the patience. I got rid of my 2011 Tacoma because I tow a trailer maybe 500-700 miles a year and couldn't stand it. And that was with a 4.0 and 6spd. To each there own, but I sounds to me like you need a truck.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I'd be pretty cautious about trying to tow more than the vehicles weight which about 3900 lbs.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Will you utilize a brake controller?

That said, a couple of times a year I would say fine, and you probably still would be anyway, but the 3rd gen isn't set up for that much continual towing IMHO. I have towed a 22ft boat through a couple of states before, close to 700 miles, but the Tundra now is earmarked to handle such.

My uncle's best friend and wife are certified bird watchers and have their travel trailer hooked up to a GMC Yukon. Before that they had a Jeep Cherokee Sport which would just tow fine, until it got very windy. Then things could get hairy as he told me once. Maybe try and find a 4th gen with a V8 and low miles.

 

[jgue467]

Its gonna embarrass you on mountain passes and hills.

If you really want to tow get something that has Twice the capacity as you're heaviest expected weight. The mistake most folks make is getting the tow vehicle first then the towed item, should be the other way around. Despite my opinions, lots of Luck! :banana:

 

[Supermoney]

Maybe with a supercharger some meth and a tranny cooler.

 

[Nunyabiz]

So it sounds like an old 1985 Ford Brono II with 75 less HP, shorter wheelbase, lighter weight, less torque was superior at towing.

I would much rather have a Dodge Turbo Diesel with a 20,000+lb towing capacity for sure, but even beaten to pure hell would cost WAY more than we have to spend.

When I replaced my old Jeep with the 4Runner for obvious reasons we had no designs on towing a trailer of any kind, we were still tent camping but setting up a tent and just plain sleeping in a tent has taken all the fun out of camping anymore as both of us are old fogeys now.
I want to be able to just pull up at a site and roll out the red carpet complete with my Keurig coffee maker. In a nice trailer even if it rains or super windy you're fine.

We may just have to go with a slightly smaller trailer I guess.

I assume the 4Runner can haul a 2500# trailer?
Or is this thing just utterly worthless and cant tow its own shadow?

 

[jgue467]

Not not utterly worthless -didn't mean to bust all your bubble just lend some reality to it, but I do think Toyo over rated the capacity. I think if you stick to 3K lbs and under it can do it- slowly. I mean it will do whatever weight you want, I've used mine to move a 8K trailer on my deer lease but I do it in low.

It will move whatever, just like the tundra towing the shuttle but at what cost and wear? Just make sure all fluids are fresh, all. You've got good brakes, better than mine for sure.

How about looking for a trailer that is more streamlined and not over 3500? That's what i would do. Here's one that weighs 2710 (19ft): Micro Lite Travel Trailer by Forest River

Perhaps a trailer dealer will let you experiment with a loaner so you can see for youself? We all wish you luck and are on your side, as we'd like to do the same thing, retire and travel (I'd like to avoid property taxes in the process too!). I'm a year away from it, so I'm thinking along the same lines. :banana:

 

[Limbwalker]

If it were me, Id buy an older pickup. Like a mid 90s 3/4 ton chevy or something. Itll have far more power, and be FAR more stable with a load behind it.
Ive towed 3-4000#s up the mtn passes around here a couple of times. It was 'ok', but I have a supercharger and I STILL wouldnt want to do it a lot... its going to be hard on it, for sure!
If you get into a cross-wind on the interstate in heavy traffic in that thing, you'll probably never drive it again.
Ive towed equipment trailers all over the country with anywhere from 5k-20k loads behind, and there is not replacement for a heavy/stable vehicle with a long wheelbase and good power. I chose an F350 crew-cab dually with a 9'flatbed and suped up diesel... This is over-kill for that little trailer, and I would STILL chose it over you T4R anyday ... Its the difference between a mellow safe ride and white-knuckle driving where you get where youre going completely stressed out and pissed off.
Good luck to you though! sincerely

 

[Supermoney]

You can buy a 12v late 90s Dodge Ram 2500 for $4-5k and tow the whole world with no worries. Yes it will be rusty and dented up, but hey if you want to tow safely I'd do it that way.

 

[Limbwalker]

Also, single axle trailers are way more squirrelly than dual.
Maybe a used truck and slightly used, but nice trailer for the same money?
Just my $.02

 

[Nunyabiz]

How about looking for a trailer that is more streamlined and not over 3500? That's what i would do. Here's one that weighs 2710 (19ft): Micro Lite Travel Trailer by Forest River

Perhaps a trailer dealer will let you experiment with a loaner so you can see for youself? :banana:

ECON Travel Trailer - Pacific Coachworks

Camplite 14DB Automotive Travel Trailer Overview | Livin' Lite RV

Both the trailers I am looking at and listed above are actually lighter than that overall with a lighter hitch weight. The Camplite is only 2500# UVW with options and hitch weight only 225#. By the time you load it up with water and gear that is at least 1000# minimum it would be 3500#+
The Camplite also has nice trailer brakes on both axles which I think are mandatory.
In order to get a fully loaded weight under 3000# you're talking about a popup tent trailer which I want no part of or what I would prefer is a T@B Teardrop, the teardrop was my first choice as it is 2900# fully loaded absolute max weight with only a 180# hitch weight, also it is very aerodynamic so windage would be as if its almost not even there. You can literally pick it up and roll it by hand, in fact it has handles in the back so you can do just that.
BUT sadly I am thinking it would be just too small to be comfortable.

http://tab-rv.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Tab-Catalog-Small.pdf

Photos - T@B Camper Trailers

and yes I am hoping we can find a dealer somewhere that will let me hook it up and drive about 20 miles or so with it. Maybe we can rent one for a weekend and go to a nice campground I know about in the Smokies, its called "Mile High Campground" its on Cherokee land and as the name implies is right at a mile high so would give me a great idea of just how well this 4Runner can tow, in fact I think I am going to start setting that up soon, thanks for the idea!

Although no way in hell we can afford a NEW Camplite though, but I have seen a couple that I could probably get for $16,000 or so I am guessing, from private parties, dealers would still want an arm and a leg.
Maybe we can find a T@B teardrop to rent and test it out to see how it would work comfort wise for 2 old fogeys and a Chihuahua, they are really well made.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Also, single axle trailers are way more squirrelly than dual.
Maybe a used truck and slightly used, but nice trailer for the same money?
Just my $.02

Totally agree on the dual axle, unless it is a tiny little teardrop trailer.

 

[paddlenbike]

A Ram 3500 with a Cummins can weigh anywhere between 6,000 and 7,500 pounds, and yet they are rated to tow up to 30,000 pounds. So if they are rated to tow almost 5X their curb weight, then I don't know how towing a 4,000 pound trailer with a 4,000 pound 4Runner is considered "unsafe." Americans like excess and believe you shouldn't pull anything with less than a diesel truck. Try going to Europe or the rest of the world and you'll see little 1.6L cars pulling "caravans" (small trailers) everywhere, and on grades at least as steep as ours.

My point: You'll be perfectly fine. With an automatic you may be a little slower on the hills, but nothing like your Bronco II was. The transmission cooler is a must and with an automatic transmission, I think the Tundra brakes are a really good idea. Not necessary on a manual though.

This week we did a roadtrip from California, across Hwy 50 through Nevada, Arizona, Utah and New Mexico, and saw (and photographed) several vehicles pulling the 3500-pound R-Pod trailer that we are interested in. Among those vehicles were a Pathfinder, a Mitsubishi Outlander, a Subaru Outback and a Subaru Forester. None of them were upside down in a ditch, overheating, or doing 25mph up passes. We did see at least two dozen newer diesel trucks broken down on the side of the road though.

Here's my advice. Rent a trailer of similar weight and take it over some passes and make sure you're happy with it. If all else fails, U-haul's 5x9 trailer with ramp weighs 2400 pounds and you can rent it for $29 per day. I rent these at least once every couple of months and will give you some idea how your truck handles the weight.

From this weekend:

 

[Nunyabiz]

A Ram 3500 with a Cummins can weigh anywhere between 6,000 and 7,500 pounds, and yet they are rated to tow up to 30,000 pounds. So if they are rated to tow almost 5X their curb weight, then I don't know how towing a 4,000 pound trailer with a 4,000 pound 4Runner is considered "unsafe." Americans like excess and believe you shouldn't pull anything with less than a diesel truck. Try going to Europe or the rest of the world and you'll see little 1.6L cars pulling "caravans" (small trailers) everywhere, and on grades at least as steep as ours.

My point: You'll be perfectly fine. With an automatic you may be a little slower on the hills, but nothing like your Bronco II was. The transmission cooler is a must and with an automatic transmission, I think the Tundra brakes are a really good idea. Not necessary on a manual though.

This week we did a roadtrip from California, across Hwy 50 through Nevada, Arizona, Utah and New Mexico, and saw (and photographed) several vehicles pulling the 3500-pound R-Pod trailer that we are interested in. Among those vehicles were a Pathfinder, a Mitsubishi Outlander, a Subaru Outback and a Subaru Forester. None of them were upside down in a ditch, overheating, or doing 25mph up passes. We did see at least two dozen newer diesel trucks broken down on the side of the road though.

Here's my advice. Rent a trailer of similar weight and take it over some passes and make sure you're happy with it. If all else fails, U-haul's 5x9 trailer with ramp weighs 2400 pounds and you can rent it for $29 per day. I rent these at least once every couple of months and will give you some idea how your truck handles the weight.

From this weekend:

LOL, yep that is pretty much my thinking on it so far.
I was just now looking at RV rentals in this area which is a little sparse apparently but I should be able to find a trailer of some sort in the 4000# range to give it a work out.
4000# is my absolute max weight I was ever even dreaming of anyway, so if I can rent something like that and haul it to the mountains to this particular campground that I like that will give me plenty of Highway mileage and up and down hills plus a pretty decent dirt road up to the campground.
That will give me a good idea of what I feel is my comfortable towing capacity is in the 4Runner.
Thanks

 

[98Roamer]

My 98 Limited with 32" Toyo AT, OME 906, 199mm brakes pulls our Coachmen Clipper ST1275 loaded, 2,500lb, just fine. It's not great but it's not bad. I don't worry about it back there and with electric brakes it stops great. I have the 4:30 gears so starting from a light is not an issue either. We've pulled it into Canada which is over 2,000 miles round trip. I keep it about 65-70 and still get 14mpg but Ohio and Mich are pretty flat, 55-60 is my sweet spot for sight seeing.
I have 193k on the 4Runner without a ext tranny cooler and my tranny pump is starting to make noise. Highly recommend a tranny cooler min. and a gauge if you can. The only other issue was my fault by improper loading a lot of my gear too far back causing the trailer to sway, fixed on the way home. I need to load more in the 4runner to help level the camper, right now it's a little nose high which doesn't help the sway, the OME 906 work great with our popup.

BTW the factory mirrors leave a lot to be desired for towing trailers, I need wider mirrors desperately, but I'm used to pulling trailers with a 99 F350 CCLB 7.3L.

 

[jgue467]

We did see at least two dozen newer diesel trucks broken down on the side of the road though.

Good perspective. Amazing (and probably amazingly expensive repairs) on the diesels though. I have no desire for one of those, I'd love a tundra with the 5.7 though (but don't want to afford it), woohoo! :usa2:

OP: Let us know what you find out!

 

[paddlenbike]

I may be biased, but this is a nice combination.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Yep the RPod was my first consideration after the T@B Teardrop.
The main problem that we couldn't get past was that none of the models have a "Dry Bath" the taking a shower sitting on the toilet thing is a no go with us.
That and the price was on average about $5000 more than the Pacific Coachworks which has a good size dry bath with a closet inside it.

The RP 179 was really good looking though, I liked the rear kitchen that was good size, but $5000 to much for a single axle and the wet bath took it off our list.

Since you are in California you should check out the Pacific Coachworks Econ E16RB, pretty much the same as the RPod but cheaper, made just as well if not better, basically the same weight.

 

[paddlenbike]

Looks like a nice floor plan, and the aluminum construction is key. Do you know if the actual framing of the trailer is also aluminum? Some manufacturers somehow get away with saying "aluminum construction" even when much of the framing is wood.

My biggest complaint with these small trailers is the lack of windows. Obviously when the trailer is small they need wall space for storage, but then you end up feeling like you're boxed up with no view. That's what I really like about tent trailers, is the open feeling like you're really camping. The R-pod with the rear tent, or almost any hybrid trailer, fixes that issue by offering hard sides but with the openness of a tent on either or both ends of the trailer. No one trailer has everything I want. A dry shower would be nice, aluminum construction, dual axles (like the Fun Finder X), at least one tent-end and lots of windows, haven't really seen it yet. I could very well end up with a tent trailer with an added external enclosed shower.