Trailer Towing

[paddlenbike]

The Aerolite 174e also has a decent sized dry bath.

The interiors feel a lot nicer than a lot of the trailers that have that old-school 1980s oak interior.

But they are a little heavier at 3200 pounds dry.

 

[T4R2014]

Americans like excess and believe you shouldn't pull anything with less than a diesel truck. Try going to Europe or the rest of the world and you'll see little 1.6L cars pulling "caravans" (small trailers) everywhere, and on grades at least as steep as ours.]

This. Go to Europe and you see their ~100HP diesel FWD vans towing large caravans and Mercedes Benz station wagons towing horse trailers. It's all in the minset. A 3rd Gen 4Runner would be a towing beast over in Europe. I'm not saying that it is an F250 Powerstroke, but I have to laugh when I see posts of guys saying that they are not capable of handling 2500 lb's.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Yep the Aerolite looks really cool, although I am not too thrilled about the tent part BUT if I could find one that was perfect in everyway and have ONE Queen size tent bump out it would not be a deal breaker I don't think.

I like the Camplite better though, totally made of aluminum and has a Queen bed with no tent, is about 500#'s lighter, 400% more cargo capacity and twin axles.
I am not sure if the Pacific Coachworks has an aluminum frame, my guess is that it does not, I am thinking just the "upper" framework of the trailer is aluminum, but I really do not know. I think if they were 100% aluminum everything that they would state so very clearly just like Camplite does. It is a good selling point.

My perfect trailer that I am looking for will be under 3500# fully loaded. (Assuming my 4Runner can tow 3500# easily)
Aerodynamic.
One preferably walk around Queen size bed.
A Dry bath.
Twin axle
The usual accoutrements of decent stove/oven absolute minimum of 3cu/ft fridge, prefer 5-6cu/ft, largest awning possible, one piece of free kitchen counter space large enough to put a coffee maker and a standard size cutting board.
Hot water heater with inside instant start, none of this going outside with a match BS.

I am sure there has to be that perfect trailer somewhere.

 

[ARC]

This. Go to Europe and you see their ~100HP diesel FWD vans towing large caravans and Mercedes Benz station wagons towing horse trailers. It's all in the minset. A 3rd Gen 4Runner would be a towing beast over in Europe. I'm not saying that it is an F250 Powerstroke, but I have to laugh when I see posts of guys saying that they are not capable of handling 2500 lb's.

Handling and doing so comfortably are two different things. It sounds like the OP is committed to doing a lot of towing in the T4R which I believe can be done safely. Personally I would lose my mind. But that is why I have Tundra for truck stuff, a Corolla for car stuff and a 4runner for SUV stuff. Kinda like how you can almost anything with a crescent wrench but a socket set and combination wrench set get the job done better. In other words to me it's about having the right tool for the job.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I have 193k on the 4Runner without a ext tranny cooler and my tranny pump is starting to make noise. Highly recommend a tranny cooler min. and a gauge if you can.
BTW the factory mirrors leave a lot to be desired for towing trailers, I need wider mirrors desperately, but I'm used to pulling trailers with a 99 F350 CCLB 7.3L.

I would like to get a trans gauge.

Been thinking about getting a backup camera for rear view.

 

[paddlenbike]

My perfect trailer that I am looking for will be under 3500# fully loaded. (Assuming my 4Runner can tow 3500# easily)
Aerodynamic.
One preferably walk around Queen size bed.
A Dry bath.
Twin axle
The usual accoutrements of decent stove/oven absolute minimum of 3cu/ft fridge, prefer 5-6cu/ft, largest awning possible, one piece of free kitchen counter space large enough to put a coffee maker and a standard size cutting board.
Hot water heater with inside instant start, none of this going outside with a match BS.

I am sure there has to be that perfect trailer somewhere.

Your list looks very similar to mine. The tent pop-out adds a ton of space inside the trailer, plus it makes it feel open and airy. Now that I think about it, it's very similar to the pop-outs, only it's not on the side of the trailer.

I agree that 3200# is starting to get a little heavier than what I'd like; I also want around 3500# loaded, just to make driving that much easier.

I will be curious to know what you find. I suspect the tandem axle will be one of the harder things to find in the size/weight class you are looking at. The Fun Finder X is the only small trailer I have seen with the double axles.

The Lance 1575 is really nice and only weighs 2,480 pounds, but the price is through the roof.

Please post trailers you find in this thread; would love to see what is out there.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I will be curious to know what you find. I suspect the tandem axle will be one of the harder things to find in the size/weight class you are looking at. The Fun Finder X is the only small trailer I have seen with the double axles.

The Lance 1575 is really nice and only weighs 2,480 pounds, but the price is through the roof.

Please post trailers you find in this thread; would love to see what is out there.

Well so far the closest thing I have seen is the Camplite 14DB, or really ANY of the Camplite's. The 16TBS actually looks really nice for my wife and I even though a few hundred pounds more weight.
Has Twin Dexter Torflex axles with brakes.
100% aluminum everything top to bottom absolutely nothing to rot.
Dry Bath and outside shower both.
Unloaded dry weight is only 2425# should be able to easily stay under 3500# fully loaded. in fact as long as grey/black water is empty could even stay around 3100# loaded pretty decently. The 16TBS could stay under 3700# probably.

Camplite Ultra Lightweight All Aluminum Travel Trailer Floorplans | Livin' Lite RV

Only glitch is like the Lance its just completely out of our price range and trying to find a used one of our exact model we would like would be almost like winning the lottery.
We were willing to go up to $13,500 with all options on the Pacific Coachworks 16RB which would cost us probably $1500 for a road trip to go get it in California. So really at least $15,000.
If we could find a used Camplite for under $16,000 and close by that would be awesome.

There is a 13' Camplite in Colorado for $16,000 with a bump out bed that you like, you might be interested in. Only has a single axle though. BUT fully loaded it would be UNDER 3000#

2012 Livin' Lite Camplite, LOUISVILLE CO - 112345011 - RVTrader.com

 

[paddlenbike]

I looked at the CampLites last year. Aren't the 14DB's something like $22,000?

I had never heard of Pacific Coachworks until you mentioned it the other day. I just found out my friend bought a 18' model from them last month. Funny coincidence. I will look into them some more.

I'm short on time now but will check out your links tomorrow.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I looked at the CampLites last year. Aren't the 14DB's something like $22,000?

I had never heard of Pacific Coachworks until you mentioned it the other day. I just found out my friend bought a 18' model from them last month. Funny coincidence. I will look into them some more.

I'm short on time now but will check out your links tomorrow.

Yes, new they are at least $22,000 if not more, but used from a private party I am pretty sure you can find them down to around $16,000.

Would love to know what your friend thinks of his Pacific Coachworks.

I am going to look at a couple of Camplites today at a dealer just to actually see one in person.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Welp checked out the Camplite's and the T@B today.
The T@B would be a big fat Noooooo for us, just way too small.
If you were a nice little old jewish couple where neither of you were taller than 5'7" and you needing something for occasional camping here and there and were pulling it with your 1969 Nash Rambler then the T@B is perfect.

The Camplite was Swheeeht.
Especially the 16TBS which is two long twin beds side by side with a 12" or so space in between of which you can fill with two boards and a pad and have a full size King bed.
Was nice all the way around, plenty of outlets at least 8 inside and two outside.
I could easily literally live in the Camplite for months without a problem.
Only minor drawback was no place to "hang" clothes, plenty of storage as long as you fold everything up.
The bathroom/shower looked totally doable.
The floor looks like wood but it is actually a tough rubber.
It was 3100# dry weight, can haul over 1900# cargo, should probably be able to keep it under 3800# total most of the time I think. I can't really imagine needing much more than 700-800# of crap
Hitch weight was only 230#
It is probably the absolute max comfortable weight to tow with a 4runner, it does have very nice trailer brakes and decently aerodynamic.

I think it was like $27,000 though.

So only way we are getting one of those is wait until we get our house sold and get $16,000 in $100 bills cash and wave it in front of someone that needs to sell one.
Took a few pictures.

 

[A.Wilson013]

I am not a towing expert, so I won't say much.

My towing experience is with a Fleetwood Evolution 1 and a VERY fully loaded box 5' x 8' box trailer.

Had the power to pull/stop it safely and easily, but it didn't feel very stable once I got into the ruts on the freeway caused by the large semis. The trailer would want to hop out of the ruts, making it feel like I was constantly fighting it to stay in my lane. I imagine with a better hitch setup this could have meen mitigated.

Do I think you'd be fine towing it? Yes.

Would I want to do it for years? No.

Would I delay the purchase of the trailer because of this? No.

Would I be looking to buy a better tow vehicle while I was towing with the 4Runner? Yes.

 

[paddlenbike]

Do I think you'd be fine towing it? Yes.

Would I want to do it for years? No.

Would I be looking to buy a better tow vehicle while I was towing with the 4Runner? Yes.

I used to tow a 3700 pound boat with my 22R-E 4-cylinder pickup. It sort-of did the job within my city, but was unacceptable otherwise. My 3VZ-E V6 pickup did the in-town stuff just great, but worked a little hard hauling it over mountains. My stock V6 4Runner is the first vehicle I have owned that will haul that weight with a pretty good level of comfort. Now with 90 hp and 80 ft lbs more via the supercharger, I can haul that weight anywhere pretty comfortably. Having the right tongue weight and weight distribution is really important, and I would likely invest in sway control as the taller trailer will be more apt to sway compared to the boat when passing/being passed by semi trucks.

That said, I am really interested in a lightweight trailer. One that I can haul from California out to New Mexico, Utah and Colorado, setup home base, then use the unencumbered 4Runner for trail-runs, and be able to return back to my cushy little camp. Even if it means downgrading from a hard-sided trailer to a tent trailer, the 4Runner WILL be my tow rig. An F350 or a Kenworth truck will tow a bigger trailer, but then it won't take me where I want to go once I get there. If I had $200,000-$300,000 more to spend, I could buy a 40' diesel pusher and bring my 4Runner too. Nothing else will work for me.

Nunyabiz--thanks for sharing the Camplite photos. When I first looked at them they were really sparse inside. The newer ones look a lot nicer inside. But $27k, ouch.

I hope my buddy doesn't mind me stealing his photos of his bookface page; here is his Pacific Coachworks setup:

 

[Nunyabiz]

I used to tow a 3700 pound boat with my 22R-E 4-cylinder pickup. It sort-of did the job within my city, but was unacceptable otherwise. My 3VZ-E V6 pickup did the in-town stuff just great, but worked a little hard hauling it over mountains. My stock V6 4Runner is the first vehicle I have owned that will haul that weight with a pretty good level of comfort. Now with 90 hp and 80 ft lbs more via the supercharger, I can haul that weight anywhere pretty comfortably. Having the right tongue weight and weight distribution is really important, and I would likely invest in sway control as the taller trailer will be more apt to sway compared to the boat when passing/being passed by semi trucks.

That said, I am really interested in a lightweight trailer. One that I can haul from California out to New Mexico, Utah and Colorado, setup home base, then use the unencumbered 4Runner for trail-runs, and be able to return back to my cushy little camp. Even if it means downgrading from a hard-sided trailer to a tent trailer, the 4Runner WILL be my tow rig. An F350 or a Kenworth truck will tow a bigger trailer, but then it won't take me where I want to go once I get there. If I had $200,000-$300,000 more to spend, I could buy a 40' diesel pusher and bring my 4Runner too. Nothing else will work for me.

Nunyabiz--thanks for sharing the Camplite photos. When I first looked at them they were really sparse inside. The newer ones look a lot nicer inside. But $27k, ouch.

I hope my buddy doesn't mind me stealing his photos of his bookface page; here is his Pacific Coachworks setup:

No problem, yeah 27K is out of the question but travel trailers are notorious for losing a crap load of depreciation the second you drive it off the lot.
Most of the ones I have seen used (Camplite's) are going for 13K to 18K.
and since they are so well made with very little to get messed up and rot etc as far as the frame and such goes then buying a used one should be fine.

Thanks for the pics of the Econ, that must be the Econ E18RBS as it has twin axles, that is about 3300# UVW and 395+# hitch weight and being towed by a 4Runner. If its a 6 cylinder I think it has the same towing cap as the 3rd gen, V8 has I think a 7000# towing cap though.

The camplite I am looking at has a 300# less UVW and hitch weight of only 230# with twin axles and good trailer brakes, but I think the Econ has a bit more room inside and larger bathroom at a MUCH lower cost but it is also 3000 miles away to get one.

My wife and I are seriously thinking about LIVING in one of these trailers for a spell while we buy land a build a house and save money at the same time.

Sort of planning to pull up to Bend area and there is a decent little RV park there that charges $300 a month which include full hookups and wifi plus has a laundry room and pool.
Start looking for land to buy and if we can find something near water and has RV hookups, surprisingly that is not as uncommon as you would think in Oregon, then buy the land and move the trailer to the land and spend the $300 plus all the money we would be saving Vs our mortgage here to pay for the land. Should be able to throw down like $2000 a month until paid for.
Then find a contractor for building a small log home.
All the while we would be living in this trailer which would be sorta tight but we hope doable.
When winter arrives in Oregon we can just hook up an snowbird it south to a nice spot somewhere on Southern Calif.
Then come back in Spring.
With a solar generator we can pretty much Boondock quite a bit and cost very little, then splurge and stay at a full resort on a lake or ocean with full amenities for a month.
Be like being on constant vacation and still be able to save money.

 

[paddlenbike]

If you're planning to live it in for a bit, then yes, you're probably going to want the biggest size with the lowest weight for the money. It looks like Pacific Coachworks will give you that. Even though the E18RBS weighs the same as the Aerolite I posted earlier, the Pacific Coachworks has a lot more windage, so it will be slightly more cumbersome to tow.

The 4Runner in the picture is a newer one that is only available with the 4.0 V6 and an automatic transmission. Numbers-wise, it makes less horsepower and torque than my 3rd gen, but those do have 600 pounds more curb weight than a 3rd gen.

 

[Nunyabiz]

If you're planning to live it in for a bit, then yes, you're probably going to want the biggest size with the lowest weight for the money. It looks like Pacific Coachworks will give you that. Even though the E18RBS weighs the same as the Aerolite I posted earlier, the Pacific Coachworks has a lot more windage, so it will be slightly more cumbersome to tow.

The 4Runner in the picture is a newer one that is only available with the 4.0 V6 and an automatic transmission. Numbers-wise, it makes less horsepower and torque than my 3rd gen, but those do have 600 pounds more curb weight than a 3rd gen.

Found another brand that looks quite nice and fairly low weight.

A Cobblestone i18 by Travel Lite
The UVWR is 2940#
Max weight loaded in 3500# so does NOT have a large cargo capacity, but overall looks pretty good. Only being able to carry 560# would probably be a sticking point with us though.
Hell just my BBQ and cast iron cookware weighs at least 140#
Price is basically $17,000 for 2014 model brand new, the 2013 still brand new I have seen down to $12,000.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu4doKYzbNY


Sadly I am seriously contemplating selling the 4Runner and buying a Turbo Diesel truck with 30,000lb towing capacity that way we can tow what the hell we damn well want and not spend a premium on a tiny trailer just because its "lite".

I have seen decked out 5th wheels that are used but in great condition that you could literally live in full time, complete with King Size bed, full large bathroom, a kitchen as big as the one I have now, full size fridge, tons of storage, washer and dryer, solar power, 60" TV, for like $50,000.

Only problem with that is apparently diesels are a bit of a problem now because of the new emission standards with the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) which is giving people fits, losing fuel mileage, costing $2000 a pop to replace and so on.
Old diesels just ran on for 2 Million miles without a glitch and got 20 miles to the gallon on an 8000# truck.

I think there are certain engines not quite as affected by DPF's and or ways to stop most of the problems.

I really hate to get rid of my 4Runner though, I love this truck.

Maybe she will pull 3500# without much problem, or maybe I can Super Charge it!

 

[paddlenbike]

I hear your frustration on the cost of the small trailers, but then again, do you really want to drive around a full sized truck?

 

[LittleCaesar]

I'd say to go ahead and try it. If you feel by the time you get to the West Coast you need more power and stability, at least you will be in a market where the 4runner would fetch good money for a down payment on something else.

Emissions standards are not friendly to diesels at the moment. Yet that does not seem to deter young morons from presently buying them and then jacking them up 10ft into the air.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I hear your frustration on the cost of the small trailers, but then again, do you really want to drive around a full sized truck?

Not particularly no, I really like the 3rd gen 4runner all around.
It basically drives/rides like a car but with offroad capabilities of a Jeep with the cargo area of a van. Its the "almost" perfect vehicle.
Now if it could just get 100+mpg and tow 30,000#

 

[vanion2]

My 2012 Rav4 V6 was fully capable of towing a 3000# pop up and it only has a 4000# towing rating with a WDH. I don't see any reason a 3rd gen 4R with a 5000# rating can't do the same.

No, you won't set any speed records but anyone who tows at speeds greater than 65 mph are being unsafe as trailer tires aren't rated above those speeds anyway. Ever notice how fast a majority of 18 wheelers drive at regardless of the speed limit? You guessed it. 65 mph. Yes, there are exceptions but they are either unloaded or guilty of going too fast and risking a blow out.

I would recommend a larger transmission oil cooler and a way to monitor the transmission oil temperatures though so you can know if you should pull over if you are going through any long mountain passes. That and do the Tundra brake upgrade as well. I would also recommend a WDH so you aren't loading down the back axle. Makes the whole ride more stable and safer. If your trailer sways while at cruising speed then you can always add an anti-sway bar kit and you should be good to go.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I'd say to go ahead and try it. If you feel by the time you get to the West Coast you need more power and stability, at least you will be in a market where the 4runner would fetch good money for a down payment on something else.

Emissions standards are not friendly to diesels at the moment. Yet that does not seem to deter young morons from presently buying them and then jacking them up 10ft into the air.

Yep, pretty sure I am. First I am going to try renting a small camper in the 3500# range with a single axle and go camping up at Mile High Campground off the Blue Ridge Parkway near Cherokee. IF it can tow that then at least it would give me an idea of its capabilities.
While its not West Coast grades and altitudes it would be a really good test for around here.

IF I can't even tow 3500# in the relatively tame by comparison Eastern Mountains then I would sadly have to think about selling.

Diesel wise I have been thinking of ways around this DPF manure, maybe there is a way. They are damned expensive.
I can't believe they haven't come up with something in 6-7 years.
Even as it is right now its not too bad IF you drive mostly long distance instead of short little trips.
They also have a DPF now that you can easily take off and clean once a year and put it right back on.

Also if once we get to the West Coast, we live in this little camper for as long as it takes to buy a nice place that is in our price range which naturally is considerably less than our taste demands. IF we can't find something then we may very well just buy a really nice 5th Wheel and a big diesel with a 30,000# towing capacity.
We could go at most $250,000 for a house and that would be harsh, we do not want to be House Hostages where the mortgage makes it so we can't take off when we want and camp or go on a cruise etc.
I am pretty sure we can find a 5th wheel and nice truck both used for about $75,000ish for the pair.
If set up properly we can manage our funds to suite our needs for that month.
We could Boondock for a month and pay zero to save money or in perfect weather in a perfect place somewhere we could spend $1600 a month to live in a plush resort complete with every amenity.
Some RV resorts are very nice, full golf course, pools, spas, hot tubs, WIFI, cable TV, well maintained pad to pull onto complete with a deck, patio furniture, outdoor kitchen, right on the ocean/lake/river.
In some cases you can also BUY a spot if you find that absolutely perfect RV resort that fits your every whim in a state with perfect weather, great fishing