Transmission Cooler

[homeyclaus]

I had a local transmission shop install my cooler a couple weeks ago ... [snip!]

Mistake #1.

They did an absolutely horrible job. Mounted it crooked with support in only 3 places and in a place that would interfere with the winch. Left all kinds of parts floating around in the engine bay, initially had the soft hoses rubbing on metal brackets, and did not install it correctly. I had to take it back to get the most of the issues fixed. They still mounted it crooked, for I have no freaking idea, but it is in there and solid.

Understatement of the year. I threw up a little in my mouth when I saw that.

Actually, now I am scared to even let my Toyota dealer install that (warranty and all)...

 

[richierich]

does anyone have a trans temp gauge hooked up now WITHOUT a aux cooler?
what are trans temps running without the aux cooler for comparison sake?
is there an optimal operating temp range for an auto trans? or just cooler is better?

in running lines...did you go from trans to radiator to aux cooler then back to trans?

thanks,
rich

 

[Mike G.]

My only reason for adding the cooler is due to pulling my camper(2600lbs) and most of the time that is in the mountains of W. Md.
If I was not towing, I would not have added the cooler, it`s just good cheap insurance on keeping the trans. temps. in line when towing.
It would be nice to see were the temps are without it, the aux. coolers are proven to lower the temps., so that was enough reason to spend the $70.00.

It would be nice if Toyota would add a trans. temp. gauge from the factory.

 

[brockeverly]

I installed my trans cooler in the same position as Mike G. Only difference between his and mine is that the barbs are facing down on mine where his are facing up. Install took around 3hrs for me, but most of this time was working out all the different options on what method to take and triple checking which hoses went where.

I ended up using the "zip ties" that were provided with the kit. I ran them through both the AC condenser as well as the radiator (which I assume was also done by Mike G). I did make a mistake and forgot to put the foam pads between the trans cooler and AC condenser, but I do not believe it will cause any problems (please feel free to correct me if I am wrong). I am 99% sure all the lines are ran correctly as I took a three mile drive and never made it over 140 degrees, and dropped temp quickly down to around 105 when in motion. I am not sure on the cooler itself as it was not labeled for in and out, nor was it listed in the instructions. I would guess that everything is right, but I am not sure what would happen if it wasn't (just a guess, the tranny temps would go sky high and burn the trans up). I have been watching my trans temps the past couple of days so when I make my rounds tomorrow I will have an idea of how much the temp dropped and will update you guys.

I am off to try to go to bed, Las Vegas messed up my sleep schedule!

 

[azn-sensation]

^Your correct in that there is not particular in/out on this B&M cooler. Those numbers look good. I purposely held off on installing mine cause I wanted a comparison temp since I had towed my trailer. My temps got up to 165-175 on hill climbs with outside temp in the 80's. Now that I know what the read out is I hope after the install I see a drop in these temps.

 

[Mike G.]

I installed my trans cooler in the same position as Mike G. Only difference between his and mine is that the barbs are facing down on mine where his are facing up. QUOTE]

You say you mounted the barbs facing down, you may want to reposition the cooler to avoid air bubbles and the by-pass feature from not working properly.

Here's a link to B&M info.

http://bmracing.com/wp-bnmcont/uploads/bm_cooler_techdoc.pdf

 

[brockeverly]

I installed my trans cooler in the same position as Mike G. Only difference between his and mine is that the barbs are facing down on mine where his are facing up. QUOTE]

You say you mounted the barbs facing down, you may want to reposition the cooler to avoid air bubbles and the by-pass feature from not working properly.

Here's a link to B&M info.

http://bmracing.com/wp-bnmcont/uploads/bm_cooler_techdoc.pdf

How would I go about getting those zip ties out? They were monsters.

 

[Mike G.]

I am not sure what would be the best method, I will have to take a look at mine, theres not much room to work in there.

 

[brockeverly]

I am not sure what would be the best method, I will have to take a look at mine, theres not much room to work in there.

I wish that B&M would have included this info with the weak install instructions they sent. I am not sure that I can get these out without messing up the radiator or condenser.

 

[Mick1]

You also want the lower to opening to be the inlet and the upper the return.

I was thinking of repositioning mine to fix the job the idiots did. I think the best way to cut those big zips would be with a sharp long carpet razor cutter.

 

[brockeverly]

I drilled out the center of the mounts and ran them back out by the fan. It is all back together and running. I just flipped it so the barbs are now up, not sideways.

 

[brockeverly]

Trans temps are down approximately 40 degrees throughout. I would see spikes up to around 185-190 prior to the cooler. I have not seen above 145 today, and averaging around 120-125. Who knows what kind of temps I was hitting with my trailer back there, but I am sure it wasn't pretty.

 

[Mike G.]

It`s good to see the temp. difference with the cooler, nice job doing the before and after results.:beer:

 

[Jtraskell]

Take a utility knife, heat the blade with a lighter. It will melt/cut through the Zip ties with little effort, even at the connection slot.

 

[Michigander]

First, we need to know where the temp sensor is located. There is a big difference in temps depending upon where the reading is taken, ie near torque converter or in sump. Transmission fluid temps need to be warm but not too warm. If transmission fluid temp is continually low, that is not a good thing either.

Tacomas come with a small trans cooler and engine oil cooler if you have the trailer tow package, you could compare surface area and purchase a similar cooler as the Tacoma.

Below is a generic chart and discussion on tranny temps.


TRANSMISSION – LIFE EXPECTANCY vs. TEMPERATURE
DEGREES F? // MILES
175 100,000
195 50,000
212 25,000
235 12,000
255 6,000
275 3,000
295 1,500
315 750
335 325
355 160
375 80
390 40
415 Less then 30 Min.

OIL TEMPERATURE MEASURE AT CONVERTER OUTLET TO COOLER
350 degrees F is the maximum temperature. This is the normal place to install a temperature
gauge or signal. The temperature in this location will vary significantly with each vehicle startup
or hill. If the temperature reaches 350 degrees F, reduce throttle. To lower the transmission
temperature with the transmission in NEUTRAL, run the engine at 1,200 RPM for 2-3 minutes
to cool the oil. DO NOT allow the converter outlet temperature to exceed 350 degrees F.

OIL TEMPERATURE MEASURED IN THE SUMP OR OIL PAN
150 degrees F – Minimum operating temperature for continuous operation.
180–200 degrees F – Proper oil level checking temperature
200 degrees F – Maximum oil level checking temperature.
285 degrees F – Maximum sump/oil pan temperature for short duration, such as a long hill climb.
300 degrees F – Metal parts inside transmission begin to warp and distort in varying degrees, seals melt rapidly and transmission fluid life is extremely short due to oxidation and distress.

 

[brockeverly]

Temps are being read through OBDII, not sure where the factory temp sensor is located.

 

[Michigander]

Temps are being read through OBDII, not sure where the factory temp sensor is located.

According to the shop manual, the temp sensors are in the trans fluid pan, so the numbers above are applicable.

The manual says normal temp is 158-176.

I recorded a temp of 220 going over a local mountain summit, only 3500 feet elevation on a 75 degree day without the cooler installed.

I just installed the cooler this past weekend, so I will report back about typical temps.

With my install, I removed the flexible hose between the hard lines at the top of the radiator and the bottom near the engine. I removed the blue paint marked hose, as the shop manual states that this is the return line. During install I did not lose any existing fluid at all, the flexible line was empty.

I filled the cooler itself with new ATF WS fluid, it took 250mL roughly for the B&M model 70255, which is the smaller unit.

Just a note, the way I routed the cooler line, the length of hose that came in the kit was too short to make 2 lines out of and I bought an extra 5 feet of trans cooler hose at the local NAPA.

I also installed the zipties through both the radiator and AC evap radiator. The zipties will take out some of the aluminum "fins" on the radiators. I spent an hour trying to get access to just the AC evap radiator and finally just went through both.

I also picked up a couple feet of this http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cable-sleeving/=i175zh model 2656K13 it is PEEK mesh sleeving, high temp stuff. I used this where I went through the radiator core support to protect against abrasion.

 

[1engineer]

According to the shop manual, the temp sensors are in the trans fluid pan, so the numbers above are applicable.

The manual says normal temp is 158-176.

I recorded a temp of 220 going over a local mountain summit, only 3500 feet elevation on a 75 degree day without the cooler installed.

I just installed the cooler this past weekend, so I will report back about typical temps.

With my install, I removed the flexible hose between the hard lines at the top of the radiator and the bottom near the engine. I removed the blue paint marked hose, as the shop manual states that this is the return line. During install I did not lose any existing fluid at all, the flexible line was empty.

I filled the cooler itself with new ATF WS fluid, it took 250mL roughly for the B&M model 70255, which is the smaller unit.

Just a note, the way I routed the cooler line, the length of hose that came in the kit was too short to make 2 lines out of and I bought an extra 5 feet of trans cooler hose at the local NAPA.

I also installed the zipties through both the radiator and AC evap radiator. The zipties will take out some of the aluminum "fins" on the radiators. I spent an hour trying to get access to just the AC evap radiator and finally just went through both.

I also picked up a couple feet of this McMaster-Carr model 2656K13 it is PEEK mesh sleeving, high temp stuff. I used this where I went through the radiator core support to protect against abrasion.

I have a simple question: Why would you trust the shop manual when it comes to transmissions yet not trust the maintenance manual when it comes to oil change intervals as posted in an oil change thread? Do you know something or do you just like some numbers and not others?

 

[Michigander]

I have a simple question: Why would you trust the shop manual when it comes to transmissions yet not trust the maintenance manual when it comes to oil change intervals as posted in an oil change thread? Do you know something or do you just like some numbers and not others?

Off-topic, but here it goes:

The oil change interval was 5000 miles until Toyota started their "Toyota Care" program for free oil changes (it costs Toyota money every time someone gets an oil change under the Toyota Care program).

My Tacoma was a 5000 mile oil change interval with the same engine as the 4runnner, except the 4runner is squeaking out more horsepower.

I grew up in Detroit and had many family friends that were senior management engineers that worked for the car companies. Most of their job centered around them trying to determine the risk of making parts and vehicle systems less robust and less expensive. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it failed and the car companies had to issue recalls for failed parts or had to spend big money on warranty claims. Each part of the car was scrutinized, right down to the lift struts on rear tail gates. If they could take 5 cents out of the part, it would be big savings to the companies. Sometimes the lift strut would fail after 10-15,000 miles and the car company would have to replace for free after people banged their head on a half-open tail gate. Come to think of it, wasn't there a thread about peoples lift gate struts failing, hmmm. Sounds familiar to my experiences growing in the US car capital.

Automatic trans cooler is a perfect example of Toyota making a cost decision on the 4runner. The tacoma is 500 pounds lighter, has close to the same towing capacity (slightly higher if I remember right) and has a trans cooler and engine oil cooler that comes on the trucks that are supplied with trailer hitches. Toyota determined that the 4runner was mostly used by people that do not tow trailers or haul heavy items, so they figured the coolers and other items were not big selling points and most people would not exceed the threshold for needing the coolers for daily commuting and light-duty use of the SUV. They figured for the smaller demographic of people that tow trailers or haul loads, the various limits that they put in the owners manual would not be that big of a turn-off to perspective buyers (can't tow if it is warm weather, or to use the full rating of the vehicle you have to add a cooler, etc).

So I am a little skeptical on the 10,000 mile oil change interval and choose to change the oil more frequently on my own. It is easy to do, gives me an excuse to crawl under the truck and make sure things look OK, and lets me turn a wrench every once in a while, which I enjoy doing. I am also not driving the 4runner 30,000 miles a year either, so my oil changes are every 3-6 months max.

 

[1engineer]

Off-topic, but here it goes:

The oil change interval was 5000 miles until Toyota started their "Toyota Care" program for free oil changes (it costs Toyota money every time someone gets an oil change under the Toyota Care program).

My Tacoma was a 5000 mile oil change interval with the same engine as the 4runnner, except the 4runner is squeaking out more horsepower.

I grew up in Detroit and had many family friends that were senior management engineers that worked for the car companies. Most of their job centered around them trying to determine the risk of making parts and vehicle systems less robust and less expensive. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it failed and the car companies had to issue recalls for failed parts or had to spend big money on warranty claims. Each part of the car was scrutinized, right down to the lift struts on rear tail gates. If they could take 5 cents out of the part, it would be big savings to the companies. Sometimes the lift strut would fail after 10-15,000 miles and the car company would have to replace for free after people banged their head on a half-open tail gate. Come to think of it, wasn't there a thread about peoples lift gate struts failing, hmmm. Sounds familiar to my experiences growing in the US car capital.

Automatic trans cooler is a perfect example of Toyota making a cost decision on the 4runner. The tacoma is 500 pounds lighter, has close to the same towing capacity (slightly higher if I remember right) and has a trans cooler and engine oil cooler that comes on the trucks that are supplied with trailer hitches. Toyota determined that the 4runner was mostly used by people that do not tow trailers or haul heavy items, so they figured the coolers and other items were not big selling points and most people would not exceed the threshold for needing the coolers for daily commuting and light-duty use of the SUV. They figured for the smaller demographic of people that tow trailers or haul loads, the various limits that they put in the owners manual would not be that big of a turn-off to perspective buyers (can't tow if it is warm weather, or to use the full rating of the vehicle you have to add a cooler, etc).

So I am a little skeptical on the 10,000 mile oil change interval and choose to change the oil more frequently on my own. It is easy to do, gives me an excuse to crawl under the truck and make sure things look OK, and lets me turn a wrench every once in a while, which I enjoy doing. I am also not driving the 4runner 30,000 miles a year either, so my oil changes are every 3-6 months max.

I absolutely am not trying to start an argument. I was just curious.
My job is to design something that works. We have people who cut cost out of it later. Every company does it or they would not be in business very long. I just wanted to know why you like some numbers but not others.