Ford are the kings of over promise, under deliver. The Ecoboost promising 20mpg, only returns 20mpg on the EPA test, regular drivers are seeing no difference in fuel economy than the 5.0 with both being in the 18 range on the highway per fuelly (Consumer Reports confirms this... same accel, same mpg). Mustang was supposed to lose 400lbs and get smaller. Everything I've read points to the car being being physically larger and weighing the same. Not even getting into the hybrid mpg debacle where their 47/47/47 rated hybrids struggle to get out of the 30s. I'll believe it when I see it.
Trying to further understand why we STILL have no diesel options?
- Thread starter MeBe4running
- Start date
Ford are the kings of over promise, under deliver. The Ecoboost promising 20mpg, only returns 20mpg on the EPA test, regular drivers are seeing no difference in fuel economy than the 5.0 with both being in the 18 range on the highway per fuelly (Consumer Reports confirms this... same accel, same mpg). Mustang was supposed to lose 400lbs and get smaller. Everything I've read points to the car being being physically larger and weighing the same. Not even getting into the hybrid mpg debacle where their 47/47/47 rated hybrids struggle to get out of the 30s. I'll believe it when I see it.
FrontRange4Runner
New member
ummmm 500HP or 500 torques? A normal 5.0 diesel producing 500 hp would be making like 1k lb-ft and would be innnnnsane. It would also not be getting fuel economy. I would still like to drive it though. My guess would be more like 285 hp and 500 lb-ft.
Jeff614
New member
Agreed, gotta be 500TQ instead of HP. The standard HP numbers in the big 3 heavy duty trucks are closer to 400.
Still, 250-300HP and around 500TQ is nothing to scoff at!! Nissan won't be able to keep them on the lot.
I've gotta agree with WhiplashWilly though, diesels are great, but their heyday of advantages are in the past, as far as reliability and cost of ownership is concerned.
I love my 6.7 powerstroke but since I no longer need it's capability, I just can't justify the cost of ownership.
To each his own though!
Jeff
1engineer
Moderator
Usually when I have scotch I remember numbers too - like 18 or 25.
maine runner
New member
I own a 2010 Jetta TDI and a 1999 4Runner and would love a diesel option.
A few pages back a member posted costs using the average of 20 mpg. I think that is too low.
In mixed driving 70 % city/30% highway, I average 35 mpg. With a 6 speed I often use the low end torque range for seat-in-the-pants sprints.
Low noise, mostly quiet idle and very reliable with 56K.
Given the longevity of a diesel engine and the 4Runner, it would be a great combination.
One problem is adding 2-3K for a diesel and it is outside the sweet spot. A LTD would be MSRP of 46K.
Another issue is the low sales volume of the 4Runner does not make the development costs worth it unless it is included in the Tacoma.
Toyota is a conservative company and is slow to adopt significant changes in its lineup. :cry2:
A few pages back a member posted costs using the average of 20 mpg. I think that is too low.
In mixed driving 70 % city/30% highway, I average 35 mpg. With a 6 speed I often use the low end torque range for seat-in-the-pants sprints.
Low noise, mostly quiet idle and very reliable with 56K.
Given the longevity of a diesel engine and the 4Runner, it would be a great combination.
One problem is adding 2-3K for a diesel and it is outside the sweet spot. A LTD would be MSRP of 46K.
Another issue is the low sales volume of the 4Runner does not make the development costs worth it unless it is included in the Tacoma.
Toyota is a conservative company and is slow to adopt significant changes in its lineup. :cry2:
NoDak
Senior Member
i imagine a higher price point, probably closer to 49-50k MSRP, which for the average person gets into a whole new bracket of choices, which will hurt the sales of the 4runner.
having a limited going out the door in the low 40's will keep the 4runner sales decent which i dont see happening with a diesel option.
and comparing a car to a big suv mpg is not reality. getting 25 or 28 mpg on a diesel 4runner is probably reality, not 30+.
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nabcracker
New member
D4d!
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FrontRange4Runner
New member
My post on page 1 explains why there will be no diesel 4Runner in the (10 year) future. I love diesel, but would not buy one at this point. They are too over-regulated and overpriced to be reliable or viable in any way - in American markets. Modern diesels do NOT last as long as they did. The casting material of an engine block does not determine its overall life expectancy. The price of the failing parts around it do. I'm sorry, but todays gas engine tech is far more reliable than diesel. People say that the engine in the 4Runner is outdated, however this is completely untrue. The only thing it lacks is direct injection. The reason for that is simple: DI is still not reliable and the Land Cruiser (we are LC 150 platform) is sold all over the world - mostly in markets that will see 10x the abuse and 3x the life expectancy of any vehicle in the US. Yes its not as efficient and makes less power, but honestly you buy a 4Runner on one principal alone: reliability. If you are out in the middle of the woods with your family do you really want to be running tech that is not proven? NO, and Toyota knows that. This is the reason we have no diesel..or for that matter a DI V6. This vehicle (all LC 150's) is built around the premis: all people - everywhere will get where they need to be - regardless of conditions or prior abuses. Be happy that you have a vehicle that doesn't have the newest tech. Instead, we have tech that has been proven the world over...That is why I bought mine, and I hope it's why you bought yours.
Reliability is a great attribute of the 4R however I've never had any other vehicle with DI or diesel leave me stranded anywhere be it remote or at the grocery. I have zero worries about these techs and their reliability. If I were to drive my car the same way they 10x abusers do, then sure, but I don't. I'm more concerned with the amount of electronics in cars these days.
FrontRange4Runner
New member
Reliability is not an attribute of the 4Runner. It is THE attribute. Fact is that there are other vehicles that do everything better, but none have the factor of overall reliability added in. Many vehicles have new tech and function just fine, but the reality is that the more unproven tech that you add into the system, them more it fails. I have tested many DI engines with no problems and others fail without warning during normal conditions. If you disregard all HPFP failures, injector failures etc.. your left with carbon build-up problems. We all bought this vehicle with the assumption that it could go 200k or 300k without issues. I'm happy to sacrifice a small amount of HP and efficiency knowing that the older tech I have is proven.
My opinion should not matter to anyone. You should be driving what you like and nothing else. Personally, I like shit that works - over and over again -period. My GF would like a JGC much more, but my family has owned 5 Jeeps and I wont have her in something that I know fails on a consistent basis. Drive what ever you want and love it - But make sure you do it for the right reasons. My experiences are mine only and should be taken with an enormous grain of salt-as with everything on the net. I love diesel engines, but I will not be the first guy to buy in should they appear in the 4Runner.
It appears that Nissan is looking at possibly bringing Diesel into their next generation of the Frontier.
Nissan considering diesel, hybrid drivetrains for next Frontier | New and Used Car Reviews, Research & Automotive-Industry News & LeftLaneNews
Nissan considering diesel, hybrid drivetrains for next Frontier | New and Used Car Reviews, Research & Automotive-Industry News & LeftLaneNews
homeyclaus
New member
EURO5 emissions for diesels are more stringent than California's diesel emissions, and all the manufacturers sell compliant engines. Even with EURO4, there are engines with 200,000 miles on them, and few issues. Diesels are still a heck of a lot simpler, and certainly not more complicated, than gasoline engines aiming at the same emissions specifications.
The problem getting diesels to the US:
1. the cost of EPA and CARB certification. Since apparently the air is different here, they won't accept the test results from the euro-spec tests, and the return just isn't there for something that'll make up 5-10% of the sales volume.
2. Europe has gone sulphur-free in their auto diesel fuels, which makes the emissions targets much, much easier to meet. The "ultra-low suplhur highway fuel" sold here has more sulphur in it than car diesel in Europe probably ever did.
Maintenance:
Becoming a master mechanic in Germany requires almost as much education as a medical doctor, and is respected to nearly the same extent. Here all one hears the girls say is "if you were a good liar you'd be a laywer!" when you answer the question at a party of "so what do you do?" with "mechanic."
So like politicians, you either need to love it or be a crook to want to be a mechanic, or any type of tradesman for that matter, in north America.
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homeyclaus
New member
You forgot:
durability
serviceability
abusability
sellability
wheelability
parkability
The only 'ility' that's less than optimal in the 4Runner is drivability in its stock version. And affordability, especially used, based on the 'ilities' the 4Runner excels at.
Whiplash Willy
New member
If the 2.8L diesel in the Chevy Colorado does well, and Nissan puts the 2.8l Cummins I4 in their Frontier, and it does well, I think we may start seeing more reasonably sized diesels in things other then full sized trucks!
Diaz Says Nissan Titan Diesel 'Can't Come Soon Enough', Hints at Future Frontier
I hate to admit it, but a 4-door Frontier with a Smallish Cummins sounds pretty good!
Diaz Says Nissan Titan Diesel 'Can't Come Soon Enough', Hints at Future Frontier
I hate to admit it, but a 4-door Frontier with a Smallish Cummins sounds pretty good!
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