Trying to sort out wheel offset versus wheel spacer blocks

[phattyduck]

I carved off the lower end of the plastic well liner (and removed my little running board delete fender surround caps too), a distinct edge seam was now visible, I Dremeled that back too, and the tire still catches as it swings past in a full turn.

Now try under suspension compression/articulation... You have 34's on there with spacers - I'd expect possibly more than a hammer will be necessary up front. an alignment will get you fully clearanced to metric 32's, and you are 2" (1" radius) above that.

-Charlie

 

[96RedRunner]

After [MENTION=139000]phattyduck[/MENTION] mentioned 34" tires I took a better look at what size you went.
Yes your past the truss head screws, and past the hammer as Charlie said. Put away for winter
I'd be saving for aftermarket adjustable upper control arms.

 

[Mendoncyclesmith]

Noted, appreciate the input. Come Spring, I'll screw around with it.

Adjustable UCA's?

I really don't understand how this stuff works. :shrug:

The spacers have the tires fully clear of the UCA'a currently, is there some sort of articulation that would commonly push the top end of the tire, close to the UCA? I was under the impression they were fairly rigidly in place, in that plane of motion.

What movements does an adjustable version create for you? Fore and aft? tilting tire top in and out? That seems bad and tire eating so I doubt it. Any recommended brands? I'll do some reading, might make sense with the adjuster cam replacement which includes my LCA bushings that are crapped out.

Turning, sure, I get that.

Vertically, my brain says I have enough space with the lift already in place.

The only rubbing I've experience thus far is where the Truss screws were suggested. With them, and the cosmetic cap removed, it's just that thin sheet metal section. I didn't mess with it or look that closely, but I need a tiny bit (less than 1/4") to be good for my very mild, typical use use.

That said, I found a 4x4 park about an hour from me (stoked), I may have to pay a visit next year just to find some stuff to make it move enough to really suss out my clearancing.

Pity they don't have a non FB website, but what can ya do?

FlexRock 4x4 | Attica NY

 

[Mendoncyclesmith]

Starting to understand a little.

Just like everything else, huge price swings.

In no particular order:

You are being redirected...

I like the price and made in PA on these:

JBA STD High Caster Upper A-arms for Toyota Tacoma 1995-2004 with 4WD 4Runner 1996-2002 with 4WD

More money for an "extreme" product name??

Toyota 4Runner 1996-2002 UPPER CONTROL ARMS - 3RD GEN 4RUNNER | TOTAL CHAOS FABRICATION

Okay, so found a thread from here where everyone says the SPC's are the shiznit.

Are the JBA's just a waste of money? Or since I'm not overlanding for 150 miles in the Rockies every other week (read, ever), will they be a good fit and not kill me?

BIG question since I'm clueless.

With where I am at. Knowing I'm doing adjuster cams, new LCA bushings, recently did axles on both sides since both boots on each had torn (and were original), if I add in these bad boys to the job in the Spring, what else is on the shopping list so I don't end up breaking X because I did Y, and didn't add in parts AB and C in the process because I'm an idiot?:doh:

140K on her, she drives great as is.

 

[Mendoncyclesmith]

Bit more reading, thinking the JBA's are the way to go.

Just spoke with them on the phone and straight up asked, politely. Why are you guys so much cheaper, AND made in the USA?

His answer made sense, and there's enough reviews, I'm comfortable.

Found a few references on these boards but honestly not much in the Gen 3 board.

So I am curious if I'm missing anything, as the threads on gen 4 and 5's all seem quite positive, with many saying the SPA's just cost more out of greed, since no one with a pulse would think coming out of China would be MORE expensive, and still being done.

Lastly, any thoughts on peripheral replacement items, in the same vein as, "if you're doing your timing belt. you're an idiot to not do water pump and pulleys at the same time, since it's the same job all over to replace them so it's cheaper to do it all at the same time."

 

[phattyduck]

Bit more reading, thinking the JBA's are the way to go.

People like the adjustability of the SPCs - but I DON'T like the proprietary ball joint...

For the JBA's (and any of the standard uniball style) arms, you have an off-the-shelf option if the ball joint takes a s**t. JBAs - GM 3/4 ton ball joints (they won't have the same articulation, but they will get you home), others, standard uni-balls.

-Charlie

 

[Mendoncyclesmith]

People like the adjustability of the SPCs - but I DON'T like the proprietary ball joint...

For the JBA's (and any of the standard uniball style) arms, you have an off-the-shelf option if the ball joint takes a s**t. JBAs - GM 3/4 ton ball joints (they won't have the same articulation, but they will get you home), others, standard uni-balls.

-Charlie

Thanks.

So, boiling it down, functionally, other than a slight increase in camber angle range (or whatever you'd call it) that I did read about, both are solid, safe, functional parts.

Since I've never blown out a ball joint on any vehicle since maybe that '78 Chevy van in high school, I'm unlikely to appreciate the difference between the two.

I did read about the serviceable, but open rather than sealed design, versus sealed and commercially simple to find/replace, and it's merits are definitely not valuable in my situation considering the cost difference.

Cool, JBA's it is. Those folks were awesome too, incredibly helpful and friendly. Highly recommended.

Oh, and, no obvious other points to hit, since "I'm going in there"?

Thanks again.

 

[phattyduck]

Oh, and, no obvious other points to hit, since "I'm going in there"?

Thanks again.

New OEM lower ball joints. OEM only. Can't stress that enough... They aren't 100% related, but if you are messing around up front and the lower ball joints are more than 100k miles ok, replace them.

They are operated in tension (opposite the normal/correct way) and fail catastrophically when they do, taking out many other parts.

-Charlie

 

[Mendoncyclesmith]

New OEM lower ball joints.

Cool, thanks Charlie, that was one of my first projects this past Spring, so that box is checked already.

I've seen a few various threads mention LCA's and torsion bars. I'm guessing from your answer, if they're working, in my case, leave them be?

Appreciate the help!

 

[phattyduck]

Cool, thanks Charlie, that was one of my first projects this past Spring, so that box is checked already.

I've seen a few various threads mention LCA's and torsion bars. I'm guessing from your answer, if they're working, in my case, leave them be?

Appreciate the help!

Assuming you meant swaybars there - torsion bars were last on the 2nd gen 4Runners...

Well, there is a decent chance the lower control arm bushings are worn out, similarly with the swaybar bushings and end links - but those don't cause catastrophic failures. Just check while you are in there...

-Charlie

 

[96RedRunner]

LCA Bushings I'd be thinking on them, what the history.
Original, It time to plan the job. Good time for Rack bushings, Rag joint since rack gets disconnected for LCA bushings.

 

[Mendoncyclesmith]

Got it, thanks again.

Also, yeah, sway bars, that's it!

The LCA bushings are getting done as part of the adjuster cam replacement, so cool there too.

I'll be sure to ask them to look/wiggle, inspect while they're in there.

With how crappy our winters have gotten locally? As a winter lover, Spring can't get here soon enough....

 

[phattyduck]

With how crappy our winters have gotten locally? As a winter lover, Spring can't get here soon enough....

Ha! It finally has started raining here in Southern California. Nearly freezing here in the mid 40's overnight! :behindsofa:

-Charlie

 

[96RedRunner]

Have you decided what brand LCA bushing and Cam adjuster your using?
I've learned the hard way if you want 100k+ mi use OE for both.

Third coast winter setting in crocs n socks time.

 

[Mendoncyclesmith]

RedRunner, hadn't decided, didn't think about it if I'm being honest.

Noted, I will make sure it's OEM, same as my replaced LBJ's are.

"Crocs 'n socks", lol, you don't have a pair of the winterized Crocs yet? :becky:

Glad you So Cal folks are getting rain, you need it. My sisters in San Jose, man, what a glorious part of the country you guys live in...

 

[Endlessblockades]

Ha! It finally has started raining here in Southern California. Nearly freezing here in the mid 40's overnight! :behindsofa:

-Charlie

Yes. It's getting down to a bone-chilling 52 at night up here in the bay area. It's tropical moisture so it's not that unpleasant. 2 days ago I taped the seams on my sunroof. Just in time. Every year I say I am getting a roll of magnetic vinyl and cutting a piece for this purpose and every year I forget.......

 

[Mendoncyclesmith]

Okay, question time.

Had a customer stop in, she owns Aussie Lockers. Did a bit of reading, sounds like a cool, moderately chap and easy upgrade.

Any thoughts on them, or auto rear lockers in general? The reading I've done says that they are slightly tougher on tires than a true selectable, on/off type (like what the Premium T4R packages come with). With only a few thousand miles a year, mostly road, am I trashing these new tires in short order, for little gain?

Lastly, would these be more beneficial overall than doing locking hubs up front?

Plainly I've been watching too much Matts Offroad recovery... :becky:

Also! Just got these bad boys in, they look great!

Hopefully they perform even better....

One kinda discomforting thing though.

As a business owner myself, I'm cognizant of the myriad of lifestyles, religions, political stances, etc, out there in the world, and I am more than happy to respect that.

So I never, ever allow my life choices, to bleed into my professional life, stick to the task at hand, treat everyone with fairness and respect, pretty simple.

There's nothing on the JBA website indicating this, but man, the box was loaded up with far right Christian prosthelytizing propaganda, and that's really unfortunate, as he makes 4x4 parts, not bibles.

Pray to who whatever you want, but on Monday when you show up for work, remember, lot of you customers don't share your views and didn't ask about them either.

I don't buy from Amazon either, preferring to support small, independent businesses. This is along the same lines, just wish I'd known....

Also found a local 4x4 org that does dirt road rallies and such, since we have no legit off road options within a couple hours drive, this sounds like a good next option, and a chance to learn from others.

Spring can't come soon enough!

 

[phattyduck]

Okay, question time.

Had a customer stop in, she owns Aussie Lockers. Did a bit of reading, sounds like a cool, moderately chap and easy upgrade.

Any thoughts on them, or auto rear lockers in general? The reading I've done says that they are slightly tougher on tires than a true selectable, on/off type (like what the Premium T4R packages come with). With only a few thousand miles a year, mostly road, am I trashing these new tires in short order, for little gain?

Lastly, would these be more beneficial overall than doing locking hubs up front?

Plainly I've been watching too much Matts Offroad recovery... :becky:

There are a number of 'lunchbox' lockers that you can choose from. They all have the same ratcheting effect while 'slipping' so just be aware of that effect. Good for traction in some cases, but the full-lock effect in snow on the street can create some surprises. Basically, it always drives the slowest moving wheel out of the differential. Often, they are used in the front with something more 'street friendly' in the rear, since the rear is always in use and you can drive around in 2WD with no downsides to a ratcheting/lunchbox locker in the front. They will not wear your tires any more than an open diff unless you go around spinning your tires all the time.

Locking hubs just disconnects the wheel from the CV axles up front. They don't aid traction in any way. They are needed on 'old-school' axles to keep the front driveline from spinning and reduce wear when driving in 2WD. The ADD system already on your truck does some of that same function in a different way, so they don't get you much unless you want a way to stop the front CVs from spinning while you are in 2WD. Oh, and if you want to get out every time you want to use 4WD if the hubs are unlocked. (you can always go in/out of 4WD, but if you installed the locking hubs, you want to use them, right?)

-Charlie

 

[Mendoncyclesmith]

Thanks Charlie, bear with me as I process this... :laugh:

I heard back from an unexpected source, a customer of mine who's an offroad fabricator in CA.

He kinda talked me off the Aussie Lockers ledge, since it does impact daily driver duties notably via noise in turns and more tire rotations. He said if I really wanted the capability, get the selectable type. It helps to hear someone else say it other than inside my head.

I appreciate that, and since that's a lot of $ and I have other fish to fry, thinking I'll leave it be for now.

Now you're making me think the same about locking front hubs.

I've had a few older Yota's in my past with locker hubs, and while I never pushed them hard enough to appreciate their contributions, I did like the "shit's getting serious now" aspect of getting out and interacting with them. :happy:

I'm looking to increase the capabilities as much as I can, (for fun and wallet thinning mostly) without adding in stuff that makes the truck act weird when it's getting most of it's use.

I am looking for more off road stuff though. and my GF just said she's excited to come along, so we'll see where I end up by the end of this coming summer.

Again, appreciate the insightful responses!

 

[phattyduck]

Now you're making me think the same about locking front hubs.

I've had a few older Yota's in my past with locker hubs, and while I never pushed them hard enough to appreciate their contributions, I did like the "shit's getting serious now" aspect of getting out and interacting with them. :happy:

I'll be more clear on the locking hubs: Your current truck already has 'locked' hubs.

The only way for 4WD to work is if the hubs are locked. If they are unlocked, you are 2WD even if the shifter is in 4WD.

There are a few upsides to locking hubs:
- Less wear on front drive components in 2WD (the stock front end lasts hundreds of thousands of miles as is...)
- Ability to drive in 2WD with broken front CVs
- You can delete the ADD system to eliminate some electronics and a possible failure point (though the locking hubs can also fail...).

Downsides? More expensive, weaker CVs, fewer CV options, more manual operation to engage 4WD

-Charlie