Thai
Elite Member
Koz said:
Northof49 said:
Real stats here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29201
Tundra related....HOLY HELL
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Real stats here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29201
Koz
New member
Thai,
What you're missing is; this problem with the rears is typical of any new vehicle. You can find problems like this and worse with EVERY vehicle made. The difference is that Toyota has learned from prior problems how to deal with these problems and its customers. I know that it is important for you to show "Doom and Gloom" but you would be more successful if you directed it towards the manufactures that are in real trouble (the domestics). I don't understand why you feel the need to try and will Toyota into a POS and failure. I find it funny how you can read an article from some rag mag (they are all rag mags) and pick out somebody's personal opinion (some negative comment) about a Toyota product and start waving the red flag of "Doom and Gloom.
I know this very hard for you to except but Toyota makes the best vehicles in the world!
Koz
What you're missing is; this problem with the rears is typical of any new vehicle. You can find problems like this and worse with EVERY vehicle made. The difference is that Toyota has learned from prior problems how to deal with these problems and its customers. I know that it is important for you to show "Doom and Gloom" but you would be more successful if you directed it towards the manufactures that are in real trouble (the domestics). I don't understand why you feel the need to try and will Toyota into a POS and failure. I find it funny how you can read an article from some rag mag (they are all rag mags) and pick out somebody's personal opinion (some negative comment) about a Toyota product and start waving the red flag of "Doom and Gloom.
I know this very hard for you to except but Toyota makes the best vehicles in the world!
Koz
Thai
Elite Member
Koz said:
What makes you think that i feel differently?? 66% (since you like statistics so much) of my cars are Toyotas.
Like i said before, i respect most of Toyota's offerings, but they do have their own issues (big or small). This is a TOYOTA FORUM...thus, we discuss Toyota's good and bad. If you notice, then you will see that i respond "negatively" mostly to YOUR "see no evil, hear no evil" posts. And as you notice, i also criticize other brands too, including my own Mercedes G500. I have posted plenty about other manufacturer's issues, including Mercedes, Hummers, Jeeps, Fords, etc..Unlike you, i do see pitfalls of Toyota's rapid growth. If everyone jumps on the bandwagon (like you), then Toyota is not held accountable for it's mistakes.
I always present data fairly and unbias. Show me where my opinion have been inconsistent or without basis.
Koz
New member
Thai said:
Even with all the improved design introduced in the new Tundra you threw it under the bus because you feel the frame was not designed the way it should be. You threw the Tacoma under the bus because it had some problems with a small percentage of the new redesign. You threw the Camry under the bus because of some (again) problems with a new trans.
You know what, you are RIGHT, you have been very consistent with throwing Toyota under the bus.
Does listing the total sales of vehicles show an accurate picture of what is happening in the market. Or does the percentage of sales compared to previous sales show exactly what is happening. Which is a more accurate view of the real world? If you were interested in investing in the auto industry, which would be more important? If all I gave you was total sales and you invested in Ford wouldn't you be VERY pissed off, I would!
Koz
Thai
Elite Member
When did i say that the Camry was bad?? I just pointed out that, like the Lexus ES350, the V6 model may have a transmission problem. Am i wrong?? Otherwise, i love the new Camry. In fact, when my Corolla gets old, i will replace it with a Camry. If the tranny issue is still there, then i will get the 4-cyl one with the 5-speed auto. So, i am not allow to criticize ONE aspect of the Camry without being called out on it????
As for the Tacoma, i rate it as second because of it's frame and rear diff issue. Going by your logic, then shouldn't i rate the Chevy Colorado higher?? No, i see plenty of good stuff with the Tacoma, but it does have two potential MAJOR issue with it. FACTS Koz. What do you want me to say?? You asked for proof, i gave it.
I rate the Frontier first because it can do what Tacoma does off-road and on-road while having a fully-boxed frame and disc brakes all around. Anyone with a lick of off-roading experience will tell you that disc brakes are important in off-roading. Tacoma looks better for sure, but i want a working truck. As for the boxed frame, i am BIG fan of it because it just makes a lot of sense. What more do i have to say??
Like said many times already, what is the most important part of a truck or SUV??? It's backbone...aka frame. Thus, this is my BIG criticism of the Tundra...and with every passing day, there is more data to support my initial criticism. What is not clear about what i wrote??
When did i ever throw the 4runner under the bus?? When did i throw Land Cruiser under the bus?? Tell me.
When did i criticize Mercedes?? Plenty. When did i criticize Hummer?? Well, you all know how i feel about the pre-Alpha H3's and H2s! Jeep Grand Cherokee?? POS.
Anymore you want to talk about??
As for the Tacoma, i rate it as second because of it's frame and rear diff issue. Going by your logic, then shouldn't i rate the Chevy Colorado higher?? No, i see plenty of good stuff with the Tacoma, but it does have two potential MAJOR issue with it. FACTS Koz. What do you want me to say?? You asked for proof, i gave it.
I rate the Frontier first because it can do what Tacoma does off-road and on-road while having a fully-boxed frame and disc brakes all around. Anyone with a lick of off-roading experience will tell you that disc brakes are important in off-roading. Tacoma looks better for sure, but i want a working truck. As for the boxed frame, i am BIG fan of it because it just makes a lot of sense. What more do i have to say??
Like said many times already, what is the most important part of a truck or SUV??? It's backbone...aka frame. Thus, this is my BIG criticism of the Tundra...and with every passing day, there is more data to support my initial criticism. What is not clear about what i wrote??
When did i ever throw the 4runner under the bus?? When did i throw Land Cruiser under the bus?? Tell me.
When did i criticize Mercedes?? Plenty. When did i criticize Hummer?? Well, you all know how i feel about the pre-Alpha H3's and H2s!
Jeep Grand Cherokee?? POS. Anymore you want to talk about??
Thai
Elite Member
Koz said:
Basic statistics: for example with fake numbers to illustrate my point
Toyota Tundra sales
June 2006 = 1
June 2007 = 2
% change is = +100%
Chevy Silverado sales
June 2006 = 200
June 2007 = 100
% change is = -50%
So, if you just list the %, then it's clear who the winner is, right?? But, has Tundra outsold the Chevy?? NO. Market always favor the "new-kid-on-the-block". However, if you compare the ACTUAL SALES of the SAME month between the vehicle, then you can actually see where they are at. In fact, a BETTER way is to look at how sales have been doing in the past few months. And with this too, the Chevy (in thread linked above) is growing too.
So, to be totally honest, Koz, YOUR dishonest way of present data is FAR from being "accurate".
Thai
Elite Member
Koz said:
I thought that you wanted me to get a job with Nissan?? BMW?? Ford?? You can't make up your mind, can you?!!
OR is it that you're so blind to your own propaganda?!When was this about Toyota being #1???
What logic are you talking about?? Let's stick to TRUCKS since this thread is about the Tundra.Koz, stop with your bias shit...let's stick to FACTS.
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