Vague Maintenance Intervals

Whiplash Willy

New member
I have been reading through the "Warranty & Maintenance Guide", Owners Manual, and TIS FSM, and am unable to get a clear answer on the Maintenance Intervals of some items. The WMG is either vague and says "inspect and adjust all fluids", or will be somewhat specific about an item like "Check ATF" but doesn't give a replacement interval for certain items.

Does anyone know of a better Maintenance Interval document, or can tell me how often you should replace the following fluids/items?

1. ATF (I think I read somewhere that is is a lifetime fluid?)
2. Transfer Case/ Diffs
3. PS Fluid
4. Brake Fluid
5. Timing Chain & Components
6. Fuel Filter

On a side note, has anyone changed their spark plugs yet? It looks like it would be a PITA to get to the middle plugs.... It seems crazy the interval is 100k...
 
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I don't think they are trying to purposely be vague, I think that's just what they recommend for normal service duty. Did you try to read the severe service duty guideline? I recall that they specified change intervals for either the ATF or the transfer case and diffs in the severe duty guide (sorry, I forgot which), but did not specify any change interval for normal duty on the same exact fluids. Take a look if you have a chance, maybe that might help answer your questions...

As far as the spark plugs go, I would not hesitate one bit to leave them in there for the full 100k, it's amazing how well these new OEM iridium plugs wear!
 
I don't think they are trying to purposely be vague, I think that's just what they recommend for normal service duty. Did you try to read the severe service duty guideline? I recall that they specified change intervals for either the ATF or the transfer case and diffs in the severe duty guide (sorry, I forgot which), but did not specify any change interval for normal duty on the same exact fluids. Take a look if you have a chance, maybe that might help answer your questions...

As far as the spark plugs go, I would not hesitate one bit to leave them in there for the full 100k, it's amazing how well these new OEM iridium plugs wear!

Yea, I saw the intervals on the Severe Duty, I just wanted to know that the intervals were for Normal Duty.
 
So i guess I understand that they just say "inspect" an item at a certain mileage, for example Diff Fluid, and replace if necessary, but how do you know if you need to replace it?

in the FSM under Inspection, they basically just tell you to check the level, and add or drain fluid to get to that level. They don't however mention anything about checking for the quality or color of the fluid, so how are you really supposed to know when you need to change it.

For example Front and Rear Diff Fluid, they say to inspect every 15k miles, and replace every 15k miles under heavy use, like if you tow... but under normal conditions should you just be safe and replace it every 15k? That seems like a waste of it isn't necessary. Do you wait until it turns a bad color?

Also, they mention nothing about break fluid anywhere, so how are we supposed to know when to flush the brake fluid? Also, since the timing chain is not mentioned anywhere, do I assume it will last me 300k?

Also, they say ATF should be changed at 120k under heavy use...is that really true? Seems like a high interval to me, even under normal use. And at that point do you drain and fill or flush.

I just wish Toyota would be a little more clear on their maintenance. Its not like I can trust a dealer to tell me the proper maintenance intervals. heck, the last dealer website I saw has "Inspect the distributor cap" in their 30k service interval for a 2013 4runner.... 4runners haven't had those in a while....
 
I agree with you; used to old school days when there was general automotive "rules" for cars/trucks overall , ie. mileage/time interval to change fluids, oils, etc.
Hope that we will get input/guidance/advice from Toyota mechanics forum members and others like Harper7 and 1engineer!
 
Follow your conscience

Hi, the answer to your post is as vague as the "warranty" is lol.

A percentage will never do one single maintenance item and travel many miles worry free.

Another percentage will be meticulous and yet still have some kind of problem.

Others will depend on the dealership and eventually trade in. Why? Because they are having service work done on an older model that has lost some creature comfort and they simply can trade up, down or sideways.

Short answer is to do only what you can pay to do now with "no worries".
 
I have an old friend that is a toyota mechanic at a dealership, so I will get his input on these intervals and post it. It shouldn't be so hard to get basic maintenance info on your car! I also want to find out if they really use 2 different types of grease for the driveshaft like toyota recommends.

So I think I figured out why I didn't read anything about maintenance on a fuel filter....The 4th Gens have the fuel filter integrated into the fuel pump in the tank, and apparently you have to drop the tank to get to and replace the fuel filter. And I though the 22re's fuel filter was a PITA to replace! I am assuming the 5th gens are the same way. Of course toyota believes the fuel filter is a "Lifetime" part, which means 100k miles, but what about the people that drive them for longer, and what if you do get some gunk in your fuel and it clogs the filter....I guess we just have to only worry about it when it stops working..

I miss the specific maintenance intervals and details the Germans have on their cars!
 
So i guess I understand that they just say "inspect" an item at a certain mileage, for example Diff Fluid, and replace if necessary, but how do you know if you need to replace it?

in the FSM under Inspection, they basically just tell you to check the level, and add or drain fluid to get to that level. They don't however mention anything about checking for the quality or color of the fluid, so how are you really supposed to know when you need to change it.

For example Front and Rear Diff Fluid, they say to inspect every 15k miles, and replace every 15k miles under heavy use, like if you tow... but under normal conditions should you just be safe and replace it every 15k? That seems like a waste of it isn't necessary. Do you wait until it turns a bad color?

Also, they mention nothing about break fluid anywhere, so how are we supposed to know when to flush the brake fluid? Also, since the timing chain is not mentioned anywhere, do I assume it will last me 300k?

Also, they say ATF should be changed at 120k under heavy use...is that really true? Seems like a high interval to me, even under normal use. And at that point do you drain and fill or flush.

I just wish Toyota would be a little more clear on their maintenance. Its not like I can trust a dealer to tell me the proper maintenance intervals. heck, the last dealer website I saw has "Inspect the distributor cap" in their 30k service interval for a 2013 4runner.... 4runners haven't had those in a while....

Maintenance intervals are only for people who care or are concerned about the performance longevity of their vehicle. That excludes about 90% of the population that assumes, and rightly so, that modern vehicles will go a long time without anything being done other than oil changes every now and then. The truth is modern vehicles WILL go a long time with no real maintenance. The engineers have solved a lot of problems that plagued vehicles up into the 1990's. Wear items like distributor caps (gone), carburetors (gone), spark plugs (new materials science lets them last 100K or more), transmissions (many are sealed now with 100K between service intervals) and many other items that plagued vehicles in the past are simply not an issue today. The addition of special additive packages to create synthetic oil and lubricants mean the change intervals have gone way up too.

If you drive in severe conditions like miles of dusty roads daily or pull a large trailer frequently, then of course you will need to service wear items sooner. How soon? That's the big question.
[MENTION=8206]harper7[/MENTION] changes his oil typically every 5K miles and I change mine every 10K. He lives in a hotter part of the country than I do and goes off road more often in dusty environments. I drive more miles than he does but most of those are road miles. So you see we have different applications of the same vehicle which warrant different basic service intervals.

As far as brake and power steering fluid? As long as the system has not been compromised by such action like a line being torn loose or a hose blown, you should be able to go for years and years with the original fluid. Remember that fluid does not circulate. It just changes pressure. For example in your brake circuit all the lines are filled and at a static pressure. When you hit the brakes the pressure goes up, actuates the pistons, clamps the pad against the rotor and then releases when you take your foot off the brake. No real brake fluid flow, just a change in pressure. As long as Toyota did a good job of keeping the lines clean during initial build there will be no debris or anything in the fluid to cause reason to change.

All grease points need to be greased every oil change whether it's 5K or 10K. If you determine your oil needs changed at 5K then you should grease it then too.

Transmission is sealed. No dipstick anymore. Again, if you drive normal and don't tow a lot of heavy trailers that should easily last 100K before the fluid needs changed.

Spark plugs and timing chain are another 100K change item too. Technology is wonderful with the plugs now.

This leaves differential fluid. If you go through deep water you should change it. Water is the worst contaminant you can introduce into the differentials because they are not sealed as they require a breather as do most gearboxes.Transmissions and differentials are two different animals so don't get them confused. Many on here have relocated their differential vent to a higher location so they can go through deep water and mud with no worries. Many on here change the diff fluid early at 15K. I check mine then, also at 30 and 45K and changed it at 60K on my SR5.

I probably left something out but hopefully you see there is not a "one size fits all" maintenance schedule for a vehicle such as the 4Runner because it can and will be used in a wide variety of applications. Now,, something like a Corolla or maybe even a RAV4 will almost always be used the same way by 99.9% of the drivers. 4Runners? Not so much. Here is a wonderful post by [MENTION=49863]WhiskeyCop[/MENTION] that will help http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/110839-5th-gen-maintenance-documentation-reference.html and is comprehensive. There's lots of other things that need to be checked at 5K or 10K intervals (hoses, fittings, bolt torque) that I'm sure you have already read about. Hope this helps.
 
Yea, I saw the intervals on the Severe Duty, I just wanted to know that the intervals were for Normal Duty.

Sorry, what I meant to say is perhaps you could follow the severe duty schedule if you wanted to be more meticulous. I don't think we would really know when we need to change each fluid without some kind of used oil analysis?

Some things to keep in mind are that fluid technology has evolved quite a bit since our days of 3k mile oil changes. Quite frankly, I personally have no clue how much they have changed, but following the manufacturer's suggestions will not likely lead to catastrophic failure (hopefully!). I know there will be conspiracy theorists out there that say manufacturers want you to break your vehicle faster so you can upgrade, but I think they probably much rather brag about their brands longevity :)
 
As far as brake and power steering fluid? As long as the system has not been compromised by such action like a line being torn loose or a hose blown, you should be able to go for years and years with the original fluid. Remember that fluid does not circulate. It just changes pressure. For example in your brake circuit all the lines are filled and at a static pressure. When you hit the brakes the pressure goes up, actuates the pistons, clamps the pad against the rotor and then releases when you take your foot off the brake. No real brake fluid flow, just a change in pressure. As long as Toyota did a good job of keeping the lines clean during initial build there will be no debris or anything in the fluid to cause reason to change.

Transmission is sealed. No dipstick anymore. Again, if you drive normal and don't tow a lot of heavy trailers that should easily last 100K before the fluid needs changed.

Thanks 1engineer, that does clear some things up, although I have a few more questions for you.

If we do decide to "replace" the trans fluid at 100k, are you talking about a "drain and fill" or a complete flush?

Also for the brake fluid, even though it is sealed, can't moisture get separated from the fluid, or somehow get introduced into the system, requiring a brake fluid flush at some point. Honestly, I don't know much the brake fluid or system, I just always thought that was a regular maintenance item. So you are saying basically unless something goes wrong, you shouldn't have to ever replace it?

Also, the timing chain thing...there is nothing on the Warranty & Mait. Manual about it on any of the intervals up to 120k. I keep getting mixed info, some say it never needs to be replaced, and some say to replace it at ~100k

I am one of those 10% who want to keep my vehicle properly maintained, and in good condition, but I don't want to needlessly replace things, and waste time and money if it is not needed.
 
Posting while [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] is posting really makes one's own "intelligent" post look dumb, especially if he beats you to the submit button :doh:
 
Thanks 1engineer, that does clear some things up, although I have a few more questions for you.

If we do decide to "replace" the trans fluid at 100k, are you talking about a "drain and fill" or a complete flush?

Also for the brake fluid, even though it is sealed, can't moisture get separated from the fluid, or somehow get introduced into the system, requiring a brake fluid flush at some point. Honestly, I don't know much the brake fluid or system, I just always thought that was a regular maintenance item. So you are saying basically unless something goes wrong, you shouldn't have to ever replace it?

Also, the timing chain thing...there is nothing on the Warranty & Mait. Manual about it on any of the intervals up to 120k. I keep getting mixed info, some say it never needs to be replaced, and some say to replace it at ~100k

I am one of those 10% who want to keep my vehicle properly maintained, and in good condition, but I don't want to needlessly replace things, and waste time and money if it is not needed.

Your choice on transmission flush or just drain and refill. Educate yourself beforehand though as there are pros and cons to both. 100K or 120K is really not much of a difference. When I keep a vehicle long enough to get into those maintenance items I rarely get them done all at once. I get the timing chain done first between 90-110K miles, depending on severity of previous duty. Next 10K I will get the plugs changed and the Tcase and Diff fluids changed for the 2nd or 3rd time, again depending on how I have driven it up til that point. Transmission fluid change is due around then too. People have a great misconception on intervals. It does not have to be EXACTLY 5K or 10K. It could be 9K or 11K for instance. I have changed early before embarking on a 2K mile trip and changed late because I was not paying attention. Your fluid can't tell the difference of 500 miles lol. I have also changed at 5K because of pulling a lot of trailers and then gone back to 10K changes.

Now brake systems are almost mystical. Brake fluid is a special fluid that really, really likes water. So much so that it will pull the humidity out of the air lol. Ever wonder why they went to translucent brake reservoirs? So you could check the fluid level without opening the cap and exposing the system to atmosphere! If you take the cap off every now and then that's OK. If you do it weekly it will be a problem though. Even though water, like oil, is almost incompressible at normal vehicle system pressures, water has a lower boiling point. Also water will corrode your brake system from the inside out causing premature failure. There are only a few ways to get water into the brake system: Initially at first fill, opening the reservoir too often, during the replacement of brake lines and adding fluid and using brake fluid that has been opened too long. The reason they recommend you throw unused brake fluid away even though it's new in the can is once that can is open to atmosphere it will immediately start to collect water in the fluid. Brake fluid is a strange beast. If you keep your system closed it will not magically develop water in there. Just check it by looking through the reservoir.

Timing belts and chains, by design, will stretch over time. The reason there is a belt or chain in there at all instead of a preferable gear is so they can locate the camshaft and crankshaft further apart, or have multiple camshafts in some instances. A chain will stretch less than a belt but will still stretch eventually, hence the replacement recommendation.

Again, changing power steering fluid and brake fluid will eventually have to be done, simply because components will wear out or break over time. I wouldn't think about changing the fluid until you need to replace a hose or line though, which could be years under normal driving. Then again, you could run over a board that could kick up and tear a hose. Then you replace it. Hope this helps you to understand a little more.
 
1e, that makes total sense now. Will the Brake Fluid change color if moisture does get into the system? So as long as air isn't introduced into my brake system, the level is good, and the fluid still looks the same color as it does when new, I sholdn't have to worry about changing it?

I guess I have a while to worry about the 100k+ maintenance items.

I appreciate your input!
 
1e, that makes total sense now. Will the Brake Fluid change color if moisture does get into the system? So as long as air isn't introduced into my brake system, the level is good, and the fluid still looks the same color as it does when new, I sholdn't have to worry about changing it?

I guess I have a while to worry about the 100k+ maintenance items.

I appreciate your input!

I presented you with facts. European manufacturers using Dot4 fluid want to get it changed every few years. Domestic manufacturers have no recommendation. Volvo and VW differ on their thoughts. Everyone has an opinion on this just like engine oil. I trust the OEM engineers. Personally, just check it every so often. It's hard to tell by color whether brake fluid is contaminated with water though. Even your synthetic engine oil won't change color much between 0-10K miles. Times have changed.
 

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