Warped Rotors on 2006 T4R

[HBhawk]

Anyone out there have problems with warping rotors on 4th gen 4runners under normal driving conditions?

I have a 2006 Toyota 4runner Limited V8 4X4 and I had my front brake pads replaced at the dealer at about 18,000 miles (I think that the rotors were turned as part of the job). By comparison, on an identical 2004 4runner that was totaled, I got 30,000 out of my first set of front brake pads under the same driving conditions.

Shortly after the brake job at 18,000 miles, my 4runner developed a shake under braking at highway speeds and a pulsing braking at slow speeds under light to medium braking (meaning the brake calipers applying varying pressure to the rotors as the rotors turn).

This condition got worse and finally when I went in for my 30,000 major service, I complained to the tech and he said they would look into it (he also suggested the rotors were probably warped as a result of my driving style - of which he knew nothing about - I suggested that my brakes were fine until the dealer replaced my pads). During this service, the dealer replaced my front pads and turned my rotors (and said that they would only do this one time under warranty), and initially, this solved the problem.

Probably less than a thousand miles later, the condition returned, so at 35,000 miles, I visited my dealership and once again, and they turned the rotors (again under warranty, but this time they did not replace the pads). After picking the car up, I immediately realized that the turning did nothing to eliminate the problem, so I called the service manager. Again, the service manager blamed me, but he said that they would replace my pads and rotors under warranty and after that, they would not address any brake system concerns of mine under warranty.

Do I likely have a bad set of rotors, or could the problem be something else? I have my tires rotated and balanced on a regular basis, so I have eliminated that as a possibility. Could the issue be related to the calipers being misaligned?

I am curious to hear all of your thoughts.

Hawk

 

[rook]

I have 50k on my rotors and original pads. I have about half of those miles on larger tires, which causes the brakes to work harder. The brakes are as smooth as the day I bought the truck.

It seems the problem began with the pad change. If rotors are not turned properly it can cause more warping.

I'd also be curious to see if your calipers are starting to seize. This could be a cause of excessive heat and warping. There have been reports of earlier 4th gens having this problem. I'm sure another member can contribute more on the specifics of the possible caliper problems.

 

[greasefingers]

When I had that problem, I decided to replace the rotors and brake pads. But as I started to compress the brake pistons back to accommodate the new pad thickness; I could see that one of the 4 pistons was stuck. So yes, you could have a frozen caliper (meaning a stuck piston), which will cause one of the brake pads to wear in a wedge shape and vibrate the rotor.

I had to replace the caliper.

 

[techjockey]

Same problem

I have a 2006 Limited. They resurfaced the brakes at 23K & new pads and the problem is back at 53K. They want to charge this time and say the pads have 7mm plus on the front. I think the problem is with the rotors, but I am not sure.

They say it is because they are overheating, but we have had other 4runners run 80K on just one set of pads.

I think there is something wrong with the rotors or calipers or something else in the brake.

Anyone else?

Ideas?

 

[HBhawk]

A quick update:

The "gracious" service manager agreed to replace my pads and rotors, but he suggested that it would be the last time that my 4runner would qualify for brake related warranty repair - interesting how a dealership has the authority to rewrite a warranty contract that is between me (the buyer) and Toyota (the manufacturer/seller). Again, my driving habits were blamed for the problem and on the invoice, he had the nerve to write "Last Warranty Brake Repairs on this Car/Based on History of Customer" - he was even kind enough to highlight that statement in yellow, just in case I missed it. Was it really necessary to make that point when I had only 300 or so miles left on the warranty anyway? What a complete jerk, and a jerk whose initial brake service on my 4runner caused the problem in the first place.

Oh yeah, what dealership was this? Elmore Toyota of Huntington Beach, CA - I plan to never return to this dealership for future service or purchases. The nice thing about being a consumer is that we usually have several options.

Hawk

 

[SportRunner]

A quick update:

The "gracious" service manager agreed to replace my pads and rotors, but he suggested that it would be the last time that my 4runner would qualify for brake related warranty repair - interesting how a dealership has the authority to rewrite a warranty contract that is between me (the buyer) and Toyota (the manufacturer/seller). Again, my driving habits were blamed for the problem and on the invoice, he had the nerve to write "Last Warranty Brake Repairs on this Car/Based on History of Customer" - he was even kind enough to highlight that statement in yellow, just in case I missed it. Was it really necessary to make that point when I had only 300 or so miles left on the warranty anyway? What a complete jerk, and a jerk whose initial brake service on my 4runner caused the problem in the first place.

Oh yeah, what dealership was this? Elmore Toyota of Huntington Beach, CA - I plan to never return to this dealership for future service or purchases. The nice thing about being a consumer is that we usually have several options.

Hawk

Thanks for the input, my wife was going to get her brakes done there pretty soon, well not anymore.....

 

[NCSCOTT]

Typically the brake pads/linings are only covered for 1 year or 12,000 miles. They are considered a wear item. Brakes are not covered under the 36month/36,000 mile bumper to bumper or 60month/60,000 mile drivetrain.

Brakes are specificly listed as "WHAT IS NOT COVERED" in the Owners Warranty Information Guide with your owners manual. See Highlighted text in pic below.

I agree that your brake job done at 18k when they turned the rotors was the cause of your brake problem. So from that point it would have been 1 year or 12,000 miles.

IMHO you should never turn the rotors. If they are a problem just replace them. If they are still running true with no vibration just sand them to take any glazing off them and put them back on. When you turn them you remove a portion of the metal which reduces the rotors ability to dissipate heat, thus they will warp or warp faster the second time. You should never have a rotor turned more than once. That will just aggrevate the problem and more than likely take the rotor below the minimum thickness requirement that is stamped into the rotor.

Everytime I have ever turned rotors that were warped they just warped again even faster. I never turn a straight rotor anymore.

One of my biggest questions here is were your brakes really wornout at 18,000 miles???? I highly doubt it. It sounds like the stealership just pulled a fast one on you.

I got just over 70,000 miles on the original front brakes on my 04 before I changed the rotors and pads. I drive like I stole it, as long as the wife and kids are not in the car. I am very hard on vehicles. My original pads still had 15-20% of the pad left. I think I could have gone another 10-20,000 miles before they started to squeal. I had warped rotors, which I thought was the fronts which turned out to be the rear rotors. I have since warped the rear rotors 2 more times in just 24,000 miles. I have replaced them with new rotors each time, not OEM toyota rotors thou. I am going to get another set of OEM rotors since they lasted the longest with out warping.

I currently have 17,000 miles on my 08 and when I rotated the tires at the 15,000 mile oil change the front and rear pads looked like brand new. Tons of pad left.

If you have a caliper piston that is seized that will cause you to burn through pads. If you live in the rust belt that seems to be more of a problem.

If you have never done your own brake work find a friend that has and learn. It is not very difficult. You will save hundreds of dollars each time you do it yourself and get the satisfaction of knowing you did the job right. Even with OEM pads and rotors just for the front the parts might be $250-$300. If you had it done at the dealer you are looking at $500-$800. It is a huge ripoff.

 

[HBhawk]

NCSCOTT:

Great info in your post - Thank you very much.

Yes, I am 99% sure that Elmore Toyota was dishonest in saying that I needed new pads at 18,000, especially when you consider I did my first pads on my 2004 T4R at over 30,000 (and I never run pads down to the point where they grind the rotors).

I paid for the pad replacement at 18,000 miles because as you stated, warn brake linings are not a warranty item. My warped rotors were treated as a warranty item though.

My warranty is now expired and while the vibration seems to be gone for the moment, it still feels as if there is a pulsing when I slow the vehicle down with light to medium pedal effort - it is as if the caliper grabs the rotor with varying effort as the wheel makes 1 rotation - as I approach a light, with the same pedal effort, the braking force varies slightly, making my stops not as smooth as they could be.

Anyway, I am probably stuck with that condition and from now on, I do plan to do my own brake work (my Dad does all of his and he will teach me).

Hawk

 

[NCSCOTT]

Hawk

Good luck with all of it.

My 04 had/has the same feeling as you described, ie "the braking force varies slightly". It ended up being the rear rotors. It never really got any worse from about 20k miles to about 70k miles when I finally changed the rotors and pads. I went with the mid priced Advance Auto parts rotors and pads and they warped within a year. I got them warrantied at Advance for free and buffed out the pads with an orbital sander and put the third set of rotors on the rear (Oct08). They are warped again now, only slightly and it gets worse after a few stops in a row on a warm day.

After I replaced the rear rotors each time it goes away for a while, but just comes back. I may go with a drilled and/or slotted quality aftermarket rotor the next time I feel like slapping another set on the rears and I am also going to order the caliper rebuild kit and refresh both rear calipers. Hopefully it will take care of the problem for a while.

 

[jkemp101]

Thought I would post for other people having same problem. Have a 2006 with 50K. Bought it at 35K. Started to have bad pulsations when braking. Turns out both front calipers had 1 of 4 pistons seized. Must be some kind of manufacturing defect. It took two tries to get the right caliper because I have 17" wheels with calipers for a 16" wheel, must have been a dealer upgrade. Replaced both calipers with remans @110 each. Turned rotors. Funny that the parts store and the machine shop looked at me a little weird because I had to have rotors turned and replacement calipers for a 2006.

 

[MikesToy]

That sucks. I have an '03 Limited with 89K+ miles and i replaced my rotors and brakes once. But everytime i take my rig to the dealership for maintenance, i always see the same service advisor. He always gives me the :bravo: because i slide a 6-pack of corona underneath his desk. So my 4Runner is done right all-the-time. :

 

[Iowa4Runner]

The only vehicles that seem to have capable brakes are performance motorcycles. Every 4-wheeled vehicle I've ever owned had anemic brakes that would overheat and warp if I didn't pamper them.

My 4Runner is the same story. 99% of the miles I put on the thing are flat, easy highway miles with no hard braking. Once or twice I did a hard stop from high speeds (80 mph or so) and I warped the rotors. That's what I call quality!

 

[midnight runner]

OEM brakes are made to do 3 things.
Be quiet
Be low dust
and try to last long.

That "warped" rotor feeling is usually a result of the wrong pad being used for a certain driving style. As pads heat up the material transfers over to the rotor. Kinda like chocolate that melts onto the rotor. Once that cools down, the material is solidified on there and can only be removed by turning the rotor, or replacing them.

The reason why I put "warped" in parenthesis is because it's not really the rotor, but it's pad deposition on the rotors.

Obviously changing driving styles isn't an option. Use some better suited pads than the OEM toyota pads. You'll get better performance with higher temperature ranges that won't leave you with that warped rotor feeling.

One of them is the StopTech pads that just came out.
http://www.stoptech.com/Products/high_performance_pads.shtml

I'm pretty sure there are fitments for the 4runner.

 

[d_cool]

I know this is old but my brakes lasted ~76K on my 03 sport before any issues. However, i did notice that the rotors had some groves in them...Took it to get it turn and was told they were warped. Took the calipers apart and noticed that the grease had dried out on the shaft. Cleaned , grease and replaced with...some $80.00 duralast rotors and I am at 125K now and have no issues.. Oh I also did a brake flush and added valvoline synthetic I think.

 

[Gofficer]

On my 03 4 runner the brakes started pulsing under heavy braking. The vehicle had about 99000 km on it. Original brake pads and rotors. Had the pads replaced and rotors turned. Within 10,000 km the brakes started pulsing again. The rotors were getting thin and started warping. Replaced both front rotors, no more problems with the brakes. The rear pads are still orginal to the vehicle. It now has 135,000 km. Still going strong.

 

[wolfgang]

I cringe everytime I hear a tire shop use the air rattle gun to mount/rotate tires. They have those things cranked up to 100+ ft/lb and go at each bolt one at a time. That will surely warp a rotor! Proper technique is to hand tighten each bolt in a cross pattern and then do final tightening with a torque wrench --- being careful to retighten them again a few thousand miles down the road. I found the original Dunlop tires to be a big source of vibration - went away when I installed Michelins. Another possible vibration source is the ABS - non-skid braking system.

 

[WNY 4Runner]

I agree with NCSCOTT ... I think turning rotors just makes them fail quicker. My '06 I bought 6 months ago - rotors were turned before I bought it. Well, I just replaced the pads and rotors on it because I was having the same pulsating / steering wheel shake I think you are talking about.

I put OEM rotors and pads on it ... smooth as can be. My bet is either you have a caliper with a siezed piston, or it is more likely because of the rotors being turned.

Just make sure you rule out a siezed caliper piston BEFORE you install new rotors & pads - otherwise you will destroy the new rotors very quickly. I made this mistake on my '97 4runner.

 

[mom]

problems with warping rotors

not turned properly it can cause more warping.

they just warped again even faster.

They are warped again now

anemic brakes that would overheat and warp

was told they were warped.

The rotors were getting thin and started warping.

The first step in solving a problem is understanding the cause of that problem.

The cause of brake pedal pulsations is (almost) never rotor warp, simply because (properly torqued) rotors rarely warp.

Don't believe me. Read the references quoted here.

100+ ft/lb and go at each bolt one at a time. That will surely warp a rotor!

I don't know enough about this to say that it will warp the rotor (I didn't research it), but, off the top of my head, uneven torque, might, I agree, affect lateral runout of the rotor. (You'd have to measure warp with the rotor off the car to be sure.)

The reason why I put "warped" in parenthesis is because it's not really the rotor, but it's pad deposition on the rotors.

Bingo!

I'd add one important keyword to your sentence - and that is UNEVEN pad deposition.

Pad deposition, in and of itself, is a actually a major requirement for braking friction ... more accurately, for the covalent-bond breaking forces (and yes - that's breaking of covalent bonds, which is a major component of braking forces).

Again, don't believe me. I only know what I've researched and posted in this thread (for all to argue for or against).