Well, I went and test drove a 5th gen this morning

[Frontier719]

This post is turning into a stream of my conscious so read it or dont read it.

I just got my first real adult job that actually pays a decent wage so I've been contemplating buying something newer and retiring the 3rd gen to a weekend driver/shitty weather car.

I've narrowed it down to two contenders: a Ford F250 or a 5th gen. (I know they're completely different but just role with it). I test drove both today but I'll start out with the 5th gen since thats more relevant.

It was a white 2015 SR4 with 44k miles on it and it felt solid like a tank. Much more powerful and the brakes actually worked! I jerked the car the first time I touched the brakes because I am so used to the undersized brakes on my 3rd gen. The turning radius was great and I could cut the wheel all the way to one side without hearing belts squeal or tires grind. As I shifted it into reverse, the backup camera came on the screen and parking was a breeze although the 5th gen felt much larger than a 3rd gen.

But as great as driving a car that didnt have hundreds of thousands of miles on it felt, I was at odds with how great I had previously envisioned the 5th gen to be.

Everything--literally everything--is electronic. And to me that was a nightmare. I'm pretty handy when it comes to fixing things that break on my car, but for the first time I had an uneasy feeling that I would not be able to repair the 5th gen if something failed. To engage the 4wd, you turned a knob. Thats it. And I was supposed to trust that this knob would engage the 4wd? How could I tell without actually shifting a lever that the car had done what I wanted it to do?

What scared me the most was the rear hatch. I went to open the trunk and stuck my hand up where the latch should be and I felt this weird rubber membrane. As I touched it I felt a little movement behind the membrane, heard some electronic noises, and the trunk door opened. My god, wtf was that? The rear hatch handle on my 3rd gen has needed to be adjusted before and its simple--pop off the plastic piece on the door and you can adjust the latch, but how in the hell would I adjust whatever electronic monster is living beneath that rubber membrane?

In all, it was great. I loved the way it rolled over potholes without any hesitation, felt spacious and luxurious, and quite frankly much safer than the 3rd gen. But would I spend $30k to have one? I'm not sold yet. I have doubts that this thing would reach the kind of mileage that my 3rd gen has with as few repairs and headaches as the 3rd gen has given me. Plus, how the hell do you get to the oil drain bolt without having to disassemble what feels like the entire front end of the freaking car?

My review of the F250:
It was a truck
It drove like a truck
It smelled like a ford
The underside was rusty like a ford
It was surprisingly easy to park considering it felt like driving a Uhaul
The seat heater died 5 minutes into the test drive

After this excursion, I climbed back in to my 3rd gen, flipped on my self-installed seat heater and felt comfortable and satisfied with what I had.

**EDIT**
After a day of reflection on my experience, I have to reiterate that this post is certainly not a knock on the 5th gen. I find myself thinking that I could afford one, and how cool i'd look driving down the road in one, and how tight the steering was, how clean the interior was, and how solid the thing felt--the list goes on.

The 5th gen truly is an awesome piece of machinery. I think I'll eventually end up in one when the 3rd gen dies for good, however that could be in 5 years or 25 years at the rate its going.

As I slowly emerge from poverty I cant, at the moment, justify making such a luxurious purchase on something I want but technically dont really need. Frugality is a fickle b***h sometimes.

 

[Thai]

LOL...cool story! Good reading.

 

[MtnT4R]

I honestly dont want to buy anything newer than my 2002 SR5 because of all the electronic bullsh*t. As vehicle tech advances, the owner's ability to work on things himself will gradually decrease until one day shops will have to do literally everything. Some manufacturers are pretty close to this already. I've driven a few 2015 models- Volvo, Ford, Cadillac- and cannot stand all the features. I dont need a sensor to remind me when I'm drifting over my lane or backup sensors to keep me from smashing my bumper(which will cost about 3x what a 3rd gen bumper costs because of all the electronics) and I don't want to be driving within 1/4 mile of anyone who relies on those features to make it from point A to point B. New tech is slowly allowing people to lead fulfilling lives while being as stupid and lacking in situational awareness as a wad of bubblegum on the sidewalk.

 

[Frontier719]

For clarity of mind, I've updated the above post on my 5th gen experience

 

[T4R2014]

Comparing a lifted 3rd gen to a stock 5th gen is an apples to orange comparison, already aside from the fact that you are looking at 20 years of technological prowess. What's the point of worrying about these electronics? All new cars have them at this point and looking at them with preparations for failure isn't the best way to accept it, lol.

 

[hikenbike]

For clarity of mind, I've updated the above post on my 5th gen experience

For the reasons you mention is why my 4th gen will never leave my possession. My new 5th gen is very nice but the 4th is the go-to beast that you'd turn to if your life depended on it......no question.

And don't try to pass anyone in a 5th gen......you press the pedal deep and it's slow to rise to the occasion......try that on your next test drive and you'll forget about the rear hatch quickly.

 

[Frontier719]

already aside from the fact that you are looking at 20 years of technological prowess. What's the point of worrying about these electronics? All new cars have them at this point and looking at them with preparations for failure isn't the best way to accept it, lol.

i have trouble accepting change. I guess i can find solace in the fact that i dont have to give up the 3rd gen---i can just have both

 

[mizzouxc]

On the electronics, don't worry be happy mon. welcome to 2016!

 

[wcjeep]

Some Fords are better than others. Avoid the 6.0l Diesel engine.

 

[DaPole]

If you have no pressing need for a new vehicle, and are happy with your current vehicle (which you seem to be), I'd say hold off on the purchase, even though you can afford it. A 30k vehicle is a decent amount of change every month. It may not break the bank paying for it, but having that extra amount is also nice and can go towards a lot of things. Sounds like you're leaning that way.

I had to reread your post, but the SR5 you test drove didn't have a traditional transfer case shift lever which surprised me. But perhaps that's standard on the newer 5th gens. In my '12 SR5, I have the lever, and it's quite satisfying yanking that thing back into 4H or up to 4L. I can see how simply turning a knob wouldn't be enjoyable. Overall, I feel the SR5 is not too electronicy, at least compared to a lot of other new cars. There's some thing these days that don't need to be electronic, yet are seemingly because it can be, such as HVAC controls. But anyway, coming from a 3rd gen, you'll still be getting more electronics than you're used to. Overall, it's doubtful the items will be breaking often, or ever, so I doubt you'll be spending much time having to fix things.

 

[Thai]

For the reasons you mention is why my 4th gen will never leave my possession. My new 5th gen is very nice but the 4th is the go-to beast that you'd turn to if your life depended on it......no question.

And don't try to pass anyone in a 5th gen......you press the pedal deep and it's slow to rise to the occasion......try that on your next test drive and you'll forget about the rear hatch quickly.

Well, for me and technically, IF your life depended on it, then 5th gen is better. It may not be as fast, but your Trail is vastly more capable (on & off road), handles better, more durable (frame stronger), and safer. Your 4th gen only better in the engine compartment.

 

[Thai]

On a separate note, when was the last time that you have heard about transfer case electronic failure in a 5th gen? Or that it's stability control system went out?

Is the 4th gen transfer case lever truly mechanical? Or is it a stick that attaches to electronic switch which is then connected to transfer case?

Besides the transfer case, what other electronics are you guys talking about that is different from 3rd gen? VSC and traction control uses ABS sensors and a few other sensors, e.g steering wheel angle sensor and G-sensor (which rarely if ever go bad). Crawl control again uses ABS sensors.

5th gen engine is very robust as is its transmission...no different than 3rd gen. And it's engine can be tune-up at basically any decent auto shop.

The 5th gen is more capable, safer, more practical, better handling, and more comfy than 3rd gen. The ONLY thing that 3rd gen is better at is that it is narrow...thus, less scratches on tight trails.

 

[IanB]

3rd gens are excellent vehicles, sometimes it takes getting into something else to fully appreciate what you've already got.

And a big X2 on avoiding newer vehicles due to technology and decreasing ability to service them yourself. My '96 Hilux Surf started it off for me, from there my next few vehicles were OLDER than what I had previously, and I liked them better. The '90's were a great era for Japanese vehicles.

 

[Hepar]

I test drove a fifth gen too not too long ago. I loved almost everything about it except for one big thing. The size. I just don't like the larger size. I love the size of the 3rd gens. It is the most universally useful size for me. Plenty big for trips packed with gear, but also plenty small for easy day to day city driving.

I really don't know what I would do if I had to get a different car...

 

[T4R2014]

On a separate note, when was the last time that you have heard about transfer case electronic failure in a 5th gen? Or that it's stability control system went out?

Is the 4th gen transfer case lever truly mechanical? Or is it a stick that attaches to electronic switch which is then connected to transfer case?

Besides the transfer case, what other electronics are you guys talking about that is different from 3rd gen? VSC and traction control uses ABS sensors and a few other sensors, e.g steering wheel angle sensor and G-sensor (which rarely if ever go bad). Crawl control again uses ABS sensors.

5th gen engine is very robust as is its transmission...no different than 3rd gen. And it's engine can be tune-up at basically any decent auto shop.

The 5th gen is more capable, safer, more practical, better handling, and more comfy than 3rd gen. The ONLY thing that 3rd gen is better at is that it is narrow...thus, less scratches on tight trails.

Personally, I just prefer the 3rd gen. It's the perfect 4Runner for what I want. With that said, they are getting to the point where you are better off with tucking them in a garage for a occasional use. If you are looking for a new(er) body on frame SUV to use every day, then the 5th gen is hard to beat. And you are correct, these electronics do not go bad often. Maybe in 10+ years, but show me a vehicle that doesn't have things go bad after a decade of daily use.

Side note, but also try driving the 05-13 Pathfinder. The interior is similar to the 5th in that it is nothing to write home about, but that 4.0 V6 really hustles, and if you happen to find one with the 5.6 V8 then it is downright trouble! It is IRS, but I never found it to be a problem in 99% of daily driving situations. It is still body on frame, and from what I understand it is a fully boxed and galvanized frame.

 

[1engineer]

Let me put a different spin on things:
The 3rd Gen and the 5th gen cannot be compared logically. Sure, you want to compare them but there's just too big of a generation gap between them.
If you like working on vehicles then always drive something out of the last century because everything made this century is not built for the backyard mechanic.
An older vehicle is great until you think about safety. New vehicles win hands down. I don't know if you have or will ever have a family but safety is a major consideration when you have little ones.
Reliability is another big plus for the 5th gen. No matter what vehicle you have do you want to start a cross country trip with a 4Runner that has 10K miles or one with 200K miles.
The 5th gen so far has proven to be just as or more reliable than any previous generation and many have checked in with well over 100K with no issues so far. The drivetrain is pretty much as bulletproof as any vehicle out there.

Lastly there's the room. It's bigger so it has more room to put more stuff.

Worrying about things like the rear door pull is not necessary because so far that has not been an issue.

If you want to compare vehicles find a Jeep or something else that is new and compare. Comparing a 3rd Gen to a 5th gen is like comparing me now to me when I was 20. I'm the same guy but younger is definitely better lol. Good luck and spend some time in the 5th gen forum to get a feel for it.

 

[T4R2014]

^ He's on point. The gap is way too large to compare them. At some point you need a newer vehicle. Don't get me wrong, I grew up with a 3rd gen, but do you really want to be using a 20 year old 4Runner as something like a family hauler? It made sense when I was growing up in the early 2000's when its technology was still relevant, but not really now.

 

[MtnT4R]

I would agree, they are pretty much two completely different vehicles. However, I would still rather spend the money to totally refit my 3rd gen before even considering buying any vehicle newer than 2005 or so. Transponder keys, electronic everything, sensors everywhere....I just want a good rugged vehicle that has four tires and a steering wheel(two of the many reasons I traded an '04 for my '02 were failing transponder keys and bad tire air sensors that nobody could fix). More steel, less plastic. There is simply no real need for any of the ancillary stuff; they're just opportunities for the manufacturer to increase the sticker price and increase the need for dealer service. Maybe its weird that I'm jealous of my friend's 98 Tacoma that has manual windows, but its the truth. I've replaced 3 window motors on previous vehicles and it sucks. My point is, with a more complicated system, there simply will always be increased potential for failure across the entire spectrum. I'm sure the new drive trains and other major systems are pretty bulletproof, but there are about a thousand smaller gadgets that will eventually need repair or replacement that my 3rd gen doesn't even have, and electronic sensors and plastic components aren't exactly cheap.

I dont mean to bash 5th gen owners or vehicles, just my .02 about new vehicles in general.

 

[dfranchuk08]

Lol

Couldnt help it

 

[1engineer]

I would agree, they are pretty much two completely different vehicles. However, I would still rather spend the money to totally refit my 3rd gen before even considering buying any vehicle newer than 2005 or so. Transponder keys, electronic everything, sensors everywhere....I just want a good rugged vehicle that has four tires and a steering wheel(two of the many reasons I traded an '04 for my '02 were failing transponder keys and bad tire air sensors that nobody could fix). More steel, less plastic. There is simply no real need for any of the ancillary stuff; they're just opportunities for the manufacturer to increase the sticker price and increase the need for dealer service. Maybe its weird that I'm jealous of my friend's 98 Tacoma that has manual windows, but its the truth. I've replaced 3 window motors on previous vehicles and it sucks. My point is, with a more complicated system, there simply will always be increased potential for failure across the entire spectrum. I'm sure the new drive trains and other major systems are pretty bulletproof, but there are about a thousand smaller gadgets that will eventually need repair or replacement that my 3rd gen doesn't even have, and electronic sensors and plastic components aren't exactly cheap.

I dont mean to bash 5th gen owners or vehicles, just my .02 about new vehicles in general.

I assume since you are on the internet that you don't shun technology correct?
If we were in the 1960's then sure, I would say hang on to it and just keep rebuilding it. But today? We are in a transition period and probably within my driving lifetime (I assume about 25-30 more years until I'm too old or dead) we will have driverless cars. I don't think electric cars will replace ICE systems for another 10-15 years.

You know, I am in the same boat as you, kinda. I have a sort of new 5th gen 4Runner and my wife has a new Honda CR-V Touring. She has every bell and whistle such as lane departure, blind spot monitoring, adaptive cruise, auto brake (whatever that is called) and a host of other things. My 4Runner is spartan compared to her vehicle with none of that and I don't want it either. Unfortunately, I think the 5th gen 4Runner will be one of the last vehicles that will NOT have all the gadgets that are common on other vehicles now. So yes, I understand. Unfortunately you cannot buy a new vehicle that is apples to apples like your old one and you cannot indefinitely keep repairing yours, if you put any miles on it. Any machine has a maximum service life plain and simple. I applaud your sticking with it but one of these days you will have to upgrade... or ride a bus.