Well, I went and test drove a 5th gen this morning

[Hepar]

I definitely also agree that it's comparing two very different vehicles. 20 years is a long separation, especially in the automotive world.

Any machine has a maximum service life plain and simple. I applaud your sticking with it but one of these days you will have to upgrade... or ride a bus.

Again, this is my biggest worry. Say (knock on wood it doesn't happen) my 4Runner gets totaled tomorrow. What would I replace it with? It took me forever to find this one because I was ridiculously picky and I can only assume it would take even longer to find a worth replacement. Forget all of the tech that's in the new vehicles. I don't mind that so much. But what else would fit my bill? 4wd, fairly compact, stylish, reliable, etc etc...

And sort of related, but I had a 1964 Lincoln Continental convertible. It was packed with ever bell and whistle at the time. Power everything. Top, doors, windows (including the two vent windows). But I got rid of it for just that reason. That's where almost every issue I ever had with it was rooted. And electrical issues (especially for someone who isn't versed in them) are a nightmare to hunt down. I replaced it with a different classic that is manual everything and it is night and day when it comes to maintenance. While I definitely miss the Linc, I don't miss those electronics at all.

 

[MtnT4R]

I assume since you are on the internet that you don't shun technology correct?
If we were in the 1960's then sure, I would say hang on to it and just keep rebuilding it. But today? We are in a transition period and probably within my driving lifetime (I assume about 25-30 more years until I'm too old or dead) we will have driverless cars. I don't think electric cars will replace ICE systems for another 10-15 years.

You know, I am in the same boat as you, kinda. I have a sort of new 5th gen 4Runner and my wife has a new Honda CR-V Touring. She has every bell and whistle such as lane departure, blind spot monitoring, adaptive cruise, auto brake (whatever that is called) and a host of other things. My 4Runner is spartan compared to her vehicle with none of that and I don't want it either. Unfortunately, I think the 5th gen 4Runner will be one of the last vehicles that will NOT have all the gadgets that are common on other vehicles now. So yes, I understand. Unfortunately you cannot buy a new vehicle that is apples to apples like your old one and you cannot indefinitely keep repairing yours, if you put any miles on it. Any machine has a maximum service life plain and simple. I applaud your sticking with it but one of these days you will have to upgrade... or ride a bus.

It may be a little unrealistic, but I did see this guy on tv:

Irv Gordon's Volvo P1800 has reached 3 million miles

If you're willing to spend the money- and it actually might be cheaper than constantly upgrading to newer vehicles, I think that with meticulous care I could keep the ol T4 running throughout my lifetime. Who knows? Its worth a try.

 

[1engineer]

It may be a little unrealistic, but I did see this guy on tv:

Irv Gordon's Volvo P1800 has reached 3 million miles

If you're willing to spend the money- and it actually might be cheaper than constantly upgrading to newer vehicles, I think that with meticulous care I could keep the ol T4 running throughout my lifetime. Who knows? Its worth a try.

Last thought in this thread...
You only live once and that time goes quickly. Last year I was fine - until I had a sudden life threatening thing happen with my body. After lots of tests and luck, I am fine again, but I won't forget how one day I was fine and the next day I am in ICU in incredible pain wondering if I will die tonight. Seriously, 24 hours from one to the other.

With that said, since you can't get out of this life alive I decided to enjoy every day, and a small part of that enjoyment is driving a nice vehicle. Yes, you must plan for tomorrow but never at the expense of today.

If you love that truck then by all means use it as your "living for today" enjoyment. For me working on an old vehicle falls way down on the list of fun things to do today lol. Spending time with family, getting an adrenaline shot from riding my mountain bike, drinking a beer in a bar with friends and enjoying what life has to offer is much higher up on the list for me. My wife is retiring next February. One of the planned trips (nevermind we travel around 25K miles a year already together) is to go to see the Redwoods by making a driving cross country trip. I like my chances in a 5th gen lol.

Lastly, enjoying life is NEVER about the money. Money comes, money goes but family, faith and friends is truly all you ever have.

 

[Thai]

It may be a little unrealistic, but I did see this guy on tv:

Irv Gordon's Volvo P1800 has reached 3 million miles

If you're willing to spend the money- and it actually might be cheaper than constantly upgrading to newer vehicles, I think that with meticulous care I could keep the ol T4 running throughout my lifetime. Who knows? Its worth a try.

My viewpoint is simple. Excitement, old ways, efficiency, etc. are all great. I have had gas guzzlers to sports cars to tree-huggers (Prius) to off-roaders. I have a wife and 3 kids.

I put practicality AND safety over everything, including my pride/manhood. In my mind, there is no debate on this.

What if my old car breaks down in the middle of the night with my family in it? Should i put my whole family in a tiny car that cannot carry them in comfort?

As for myself, i am (currently) worth more alive than dead to my family. So, i will always put safety ahead. I sold my wonderfully efficient Prius to get MDX because my job requirements changed (longer distance driving)...so, i traded efficiency for safety.

(Just to prove that i mean what i say...in 2010, i traded in my Mercedes G500 [bought new, paid for] for a Prius because my work was close and gas prices were high...but kept the 2008 Sienna, which is about as useful as a Swiss knife when you have a big family.)

I refuse to get a 2-door sports car at this stage of my life...even though i am in the mid-life crisis group.

So, you have to ask yourself...is it worth it in the grand scheme of things? A single person with limited funds is very different than a family man with limited funds.

YMMV.

 

[jwkilgore]

As I slowly emerge from poverty I cant, at the moment, justify making such a luxurious purchase on something I want but technically dont really need. Frugality is a fickle b***h sometimes.

Listen to your own advice. Don't prolong your "poverty" by adding new expenses as fast as you add new income. My ex and I did this by trading her perfectly serviceable Chevy S-10 Blazer for a brand new '96 T-Bird. We managed to afford the new payments, but things would have been much more comfortable had we kept the Blazer another year or two and put the extra money into savings or made extra payments on student loans.

If the 3rd Gen still makes you happy and meets your needs, then keep it.

Otherwise:
- There's an easy access plate for the oil drain plug, but you do have to remove a few trim pieces and the front skid plate to change the filter. Just one of the disadvantages of factory skid plates. You could always remove them if you never go off road. There's an excellent how-to thread somewhere in the 5th Gen section with pictures.
- The Trail model and 2010-2013 SR5's still have the manual transfer case shifter. With the knob you know it's changed by the lights on the dash.
- Unless you custom-order a stripped down "work truck" level F150, every new vehicle will have gobs of electronics. Welcome to the 21st century. I will never again buy a vehicle that doesn't have hands-free bluetooth and a rear-view backup camera; those are safety features that should be mandatory on any vehicle. Anyway, you'll be surprised at what you'll be able to self-service.

 

[-JD-]

This is an odd thread. Seems half of you are worried that newer 4runners are going to break, the other half are worried that older 4runners are going to break.

Personally I've owned both and none of my 4Runners were particularly prone to things breaking. My 3rd gen even had the push button 4x4 engagement, and it never broke on me.

I guess I dont see what is so much easier to service on the 3rd gen vs the 5th gen? Even then, does the increase in service difficulty/cost outweigh the increased likelihood of failure of older parts?

 

[1engineer]

This is an odd thread. Seems half of you are worried that newer 4runners are going to break, the other half are worried that older 4runners are going to break.

Personally I've owned both and none of my 4Runners were particularly prone to things breaking. My 3rd gen even had the push button 4x4 engagement, and it never broke on me.

I guess I dont see what is so much easier to service on the 3rd gen vs the 5th gen? Even then, does the increase in service difficulty/cost outweigh the increased likelihood of failure of older parts?

No just that everything has an ultimate service life is all.

 

[T4R2014]

This is an odd thread. Seems half of you are worried that newer 4runners are going to break, the other half are worried that older 4runners are going to break.

Personally I've owned both and none of my 4Runners were particularly prone to things breaking. My 3rd gen even had the push button 4x4 engagement, and it never broke on me.

I guess I dont see what is so much easier to service on the 3rd gen vs the 5th gen? Even then, does the increase in service difficulty/cost outweigh the increased likelihood of failure of older parts?

If we were in 1996, these same guys would be worrying that a 3rd gen was going to fall apart because it wasn't as simple as a 1979 Hilux.

 

[Brique]

Okay I guess I'll throw my $0.02 in here.

It is fair to compare the 3rd gen to the fifth gen because that's the decision he's facing. When comparing, you have to look at the entire situation. With op, that includes a car payment with the fifth gen. There's also the ease of repair, availability of used parts, etc. You won't find a fifth gen in a pull it yard for another 7-8 years at least. If you have to replace an electronic component, it's considerably more expensive than replacing a simple pull- wire, for example.

The 3rd gen is perfectly safe. Is the fifth gen safer in an epic wreck? Maybe, but for the vast majority of normal wrecks, either is going to let you walk away. Besides, if safety is really your number one concern, you shouldn't be driving a high center of mass suv.

I agree that you only live once, but if i drop dead tomorrow, my family survives me, and there's no way I would leave them a financial mess just so i can have some nicer toys. Now i heard you when you said you're in good shape financially, but I've also heard the "yolo" line from broke twenty- somethings with two kids, a terrified wife and a $750/month boat payment, so i wanted to address that line of thinking for others.

It's also important to note that actuarially, if you make it to 30, you're very likely to make it to 80. I'm approaching 40 now and I'm still pissed at myself about mistakes i made in my twenties. A measure of restraint and discipline now pays huge dividends later. The opposite is also true.

Op, you are wise to keep the 3rd gen. You don't need learn the hard way like i did.

 

[T4R2014]

It is fair to compare the 3rd gen to the fifth gen because that's the decision he's facing.

You are really trying hard to make this work. :biggrin1:

 

[1engineer]

Okay I guess I'll throw my $0.02 in here.

It is fair to compare the 3rd gen to the fifth gen because that's the decision he's facing. When comparing, you have to look at the entire situation. With op, that includes a car payment with the fifth gen. There's also the ease of repair, availability of used parts, etc. You won't find a fifth gen in a pull it yard for another 7-8 years at least. If you have to replace an electronic component, it's considerably more expensive than replacing a simple pull- wire, for example.

The 3rd gen is perfectly safe. Is the fifth gen safer in an epic wreck? Maybe, but for the vast majority of normal wrecks, either is going to let you walk away. Besides, if safety is really your number one concern, you shouldn't be driving a high center of mass suv.

I agree that you only live once, but if i drop dead tomorrow, my family survives me, and there's no way I would leave them a financial mess just so i can have some nicer toys. Now i heard you when you said you're in good shape financially, but I've also heard the "yolo" line from broke twenty- somethings with two kids, a terrified wife and a $750/month boat payment, so i wanted to address that line of thinking for others.

It's also important to note that actuarially, if you make it to 30, you're very likely to make it to 80. I'm approaching 40 now and I'm still pissed at myself about mistakes i made in my twenties. A measure of restraint and discipline now pays huge dividends later. The opposite is also true.

Op, you are wise to keep the 3rd gen. You don't need learn the hard way like i did.

There is no easy way to learn anything. The harder it is to learn the more valuable the lesson. Think about it.

 

[Thai]

The 3rd gen is perfectly safe. Is the fifth gen safer in an epic wreck? Maybe, but for the vast majority of normal wrecks, either is going to let you walk away. Besides, if safety is really your number one concern, you shouldn't be driving a high center of mass suv.

Not sure if i agree here. Yes, compared to 1990s SUVs, the 3rd gen was OK. It had ACCEPTABLE rating i believe for standard offset crash. Back then, there was no testing done for roof strength...and now there is the SMALL offset crash test.

Roof strength alone is very important...well, because 4runners are tall vehicles like you said...but also because rollovers can happen while off-roading too.

I have seen enough of 3rd gen rollover pics to know that 3rd gen roof strength was NOT its strong point. Hell, TLC80 roof strength was also lackluster too.

We can argue about how important SMALL offset crash tests are (they ARE important IMO), but roof strength is extremely vital.

Fine...if you care 100% about safety, then don't get BOF SUVs. True. But, if you do off-road and care about safety, then you should care about roof strength.

 

[T4R2014]

Not sure if i agree here. Yes, compared to 1990s SUVs, the 3rd gen was OK. It had ACCEPTABLE rating i believe for standard offset crash. Back then, there was no testing done for roof strength...and now there is the SMALL offset crash test.

Roof strength alone is very important...well, because 4runners are tall vehicles like you said...but also because rollovers can happen while off-roading too.

I have seen enough of 3rd gen rollover pics to know that 3rd gen roof strength was NOT its strong point. Hell, TLC80 roof strength was also lackluster too.

We can argue about how important SMALL offset crash tests are (they ARE important IMO), but roof strength is extremely vital.

Fine...if you care 100% about safety, then don't get BOF SUVs. True. But, if you do off-road and care about safety, then you should care about roof strength.

I think the 99+ bumper got it a good rating for the standard offset. Compared to it's competitors of the, the 3rd gen was one of the safer options. With that said, the 5th gen meets more stringent safety standards of today.

 

[Thai]

I think the 99+ bumper got it a good rating for the standard offset. Compared to it's competitors of the, the 3rd gen was one of the safer options. With that said, the 5th gen meets more stringent safety standards of today.

INITIALLY, it was GOOD, but in 2002 or 2003, IIHS lowered it to ACCEPTABLE, which is still the case today: Vehicle details

Click on OTHER MODEL YEARS.

 

[-JD-]

Well now I'm curious, what changed between 2012-2013 that improved the roof strength?

 

[Hepar]

Not sure what the 1991 4Runner's rating was, but whatever it was, I certainly think it was more than acceptable! Woman hit my friend and I head-on doing around 40 and we were doing the same. Straight on impact, so like hitting a wall at close to 80. Remember, this was before airbags. We both walked away.

 

[1engineer]

Not sure what the 1991 4Runner's rating was, but whatever it was, I certainly think it was more than acceptable! Woman hit my friend and I head-on doing around 40 and we were doing the same. Straight on impact, so like hitting a wall at close to 80. Remember, this was before airbags. We both walked away.

I have to respectably disagree. Two vehicles of same mass at same speed (40 mph in this case) hitting each other head on exactly, will still only be 40 mph worth of damage. Sorry.

 

[Hepar]

I have to respectably disagree. Two vehicles of same mass at same speed (40 mph in this case) hitting each other head on exactly, will still only be 40 mph worth of damage. Sorry.

Given your name, I'll take your word for it. Either way, that sh*t hurt like a mutha.

 

[1engineer]

Given your name, I'll take your word for it. Either way, that sh*t hurt like a mutha.

Yep I bet! That is a common misconception though. People forget that both vehicles absorb the kinetic energy. Now, if you hit a vehicle that has a much higher mass (18 wheeler let's say) then you will have a bad day.

 

[Hepar]

Yep I bet! That is a common misconception though. People forget that both vehicles absorb the kinetic energy. Now, if you hit a vehicle that has a much higher mass (18 wheeler let's say) then you will have a bad day.

Learn something new everyday. Hope I never experience the difference firsthand.