what brand/type Control Arms to get?

[beliy25]

Hello everyone

I am shopping around for the new UCAs and the rest of the whole front end suspension related parts(tie rods LCAs bushings etc...)

My mechanic says everything seems to be fine with my front end(no movement of parts,everything is tight) but it feels far from fine when i hit potholes and small bumps on curved road(shake of death happens)....I have decided to change the whole thing to be sure i am alright....

2006 t4r Sport v8

I have installed 5100s all around in december 2015 with new moog springs (f&r).

5100s are all the way up in front and in the back i have daystar 1.5"spacers and 1.5" all around wheel spacers.I run 265/70/17 nitto grapplers...but i want to upgrade tires to a bigger size.


i have read a lot of info about UCAs and the rest of the sets up on here but i haven't come to the conclusion which ones to buy.So different set ups and so much options ......I dont do a lot of off roading but i will be when my front end will be reliable to go into the woods and get out of there without a tow truck))))


I am going to get all the parts from rockauto because their prices and range of choice is acceptable,but i have no idea what brand to get and what every brand's pros and cons are.
Its very confusing to me to decide what to get to have it for descent price without compromising quality.


Please put your input,concern,or opinion.

Thank you all very very much in advance....

 

[dkyleb]

You're experiencing death wobble? Please elaborate.

 

[beliy25]

You're experiencing death wobble? Please elaborate.

yes,death wobble is one of the problems.


when i hit pothole ,the sound is scary,like i used to have before changing shocks and springs....when i changed them,problems went away for 3 month and then came back to the same .......

i dont want to point fingers anymore to a certain problem,i just want to change the whole thing at once.I know its gonna cost me money but i dont have any choice......the car has 108 000 miles on it,its time for it to get fixed

 

[BigredTEX]

yes,death wobble is one of the problems.


when i hit pothole ,the sound is scary,like i used to have before changing shocks and springs....when i changed them,problems went away for 3 month and then came back to the same .......

i dont want to point fingers anymore to a certain problem,i just want to change the whole thing at once.I know its gonna cost me money but i dont have any choice......the car has 108 000 miles on it,its time for it to get fixed

it is impossible to have death wobble on a rack and pinion system with IFS. its most likely just bump steer. it can be reduced by adding more caster to the alignment. if your alignment is maxed then you'll need new ucas. literally any brand of uca will work just fine. you can pick from allpro, camburg, totalchaos, icon, rokman, SPC lightracing, the ebay uniballs or balljoint arms, and probably some im forgetting.

 

[dkyleb]

Can you elaborate more on this sound and "wobble" you experience? You didn't give us any details...

 

[morphious]

[MENTION=78378]beliy25[/MENTION] Like [MENTION=80379]BigredTEX[/MENTION] said most likely your out of alignment. What are your alignment numbers? If you are running 5100's @ max with new coils you are going to be way low on your caster spec because the stock UCA's can't compensate for that much lift causing the darting issues. I run eBay uniballs with no issues.

 

[beliy25]

Can you elaborate more on this sound and "wobble" you experience? You didn't give us any details...

well,it sounds like the shock is going to go through my hood when i hit pothole.

and when i turn the wheel to avoid pothole but still get into it sometimes,car starts to walk away and it is scary )))

 

[beliy25]

[MENTION=78378]beliy25[/MENTION] Like [MENTION=80379]BigredTEX[/MENTION] said most likely your out of alignment. What are your alignment numbers? If you are running 5100's @ max with new coils you are going to be way low on your caster spec because the stock UCA's can't compensate for that much lift causing the darting issues. I run eBay uniballs with no issues.

i dont know what my numbers are,i did alingment when i changed the whole shock spring thing.i remember taking it to a toyota dealership though and they were not able to do anything because they said the bolt were seized and ill need to make a repairs 1500 worth of $.

i just got my key and left.


did an allignment at a private shop but dont remember what were the numbers.

how do the ebay arms work for you?any modification needs to be done with them?i remember reading a thread about them and it was very hard to understand if its worth to get them or not.

please let me know about it.

Lower control arms with ball joints (Beck/Arnley):
More Information for BECK/ARNLEY 1026426

More Information for BECK/ARNLEY 1026427

Inner tie rods (Moog):
More Information for MOOG EV80379

Outer tie rods (Moog):
More Information for MOOG ES80378

Alignment cams (moog):


that is what i am going to get so far.is there anything else i am missing besides UCAs?


thank you very much....

 

[beliy25]

it is impossible to have death wobble on a rack and pinion system with IFS. its most likely just bump steer. it can be reduced by adding more caster to the alignment. if your alignment is maxed then you'll need new ucas. literally any brand of uca will work just fine. you can pick from allpro, camburg, totalchaos, icon, rokman, SPC lightracing, the ebay uniballs or balljoint arms, and probably some im forgetting.

i knew it was something with alignment but the sound of something down there that scares me is not alignment related and still needs to be changed.thats why i am looking to do all at once,and maybe after do the new wheels tires thing.


btw,with the set up i have now,if i install new UCAs lets say from ebay,will i be able to put 285 70 17?

thank you for your input.

 

[morphious]

[MENTION=78378]beliy25[/MENTION] To be honest I high doubt you need to spend all that money to replace parts that I doubt are bad. Did you install the coils and shocks yourself originally? You said your mechanic has checked the suspension and found no issues so why are you doubting him? I would start with the very basics, you say it sounds like the shock wants to bust up through the hood which to me sounds like the bushing in the top hat is missing or the shock is not properly torqued down. I would start by looking at the front shocks where the top nut is with the vehicle on the ground and try shaking the shock itself to see if there is play. Then jack the front end off the ground so that the suspension can completely droop freely and do the same, you may notice some play, but because you have new coils on 5100's at max the coils will still have preload and probably not move. The only real way to investigate the bushings would be to remove the shocks and inspect the top hats and bushings to make sure they were installed correctly to begin with. Here is a simple drawing showing the order the front shocks and bushings should be installed in the top hats.

As far as the eBay UCA's I use, the only upgrade I found that needs to be done is replace the sleeves with new ones from Dirt King for like $65 and you should be good to go. For info on that you can read here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/182584-ebay-uniball-control-arms-42.html#post2300307

 

[jfry008]

-I've read a lot of mixed reviews for the Moog camber bolts, some people experience the camber tab wallowing out/deforming. I would recommend the OEM camber bolts (~$130) and a generous amount of antiseize.
-My camber bolts weren't seized when I did my lift (exact same lift as yours)..you could either: A) fight with the old LCAs and try to recondition them (a lot of work and no guarantee you will be successful) or B) get new LCAs
-Sounds like you definitely need new UCAs with built in added caster, which I don't believe can be purchased from rockauto..http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/218791-uca-question-thoughts-course-opinions-welcome.html
-with those 3 things you should be able to get a solid alignment, which would be a great starting point. The darting and touchyness of the steering wheel should then be fixed with a in spec alignment. (Request an alignment sheet printout of before and after specs!)

-checkout my build thread, in my signature, it could help out since we have very similar lifts...good luck with your research

 

[beliy25]

[MENTION=78378]beliy25[/MENTION] To be honest I high doubt you need to spend all that money to replace parts that I doubt are bad. Did you install the coils and shocks yourself originally? You said your mechanic has checked the suspension and found no issues so why are you doubting him? I would start with the very basics, you say it sounds like the shock wants to bust up through the hood which to me sounds like the bushing in the top hat is missing or the shock is not properly torqued down. I would start by looking at the front shocks where the top nut is with the vehicle on the ground and try shaking the shock itself to see if there is play. Then jack the front end off the ground so that the suspension can completely droop freely and do the same, you may notice some play, but because you have new coils on 5100's at max the coils will still have preload and probably not move. The only real way to investigate the bushings would be to remove the shocks and inspect the top hats and bushings to make sure they were installed correctly to begin with. Here is a simple drawing showing the order the front shocks and bushings should be installed in the top hats.

As far as the eBay UCA's I use, the only upgrade I found that needs to be done is replace the sleeves with new ones from Dirt King for like $65 and you should be good to go. For info on that you can read here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/182584-ebay-uniball-control-arms-42.html#post2300307

no i did not install shock myself,my mechanic did it.....

i will do that when the weather gets better,this rain is not going to stop for next 3 days .......


so is it worth buying ebay UCAs and additional sleeves and bolt vs stock UCAs?
the price is about the same ..
how is UNiball treating you?a lot of maintenance required?


thank you.

 

[beliy25]

-I've read a lot of mixed reviews for the Moog camber bolts, some people experience the camber tab wallowing out/deforming. I would recommend the OEM camber bolts (~$130) and a generous amount of antiseize.
-My camber bolts weren't seized when I did my lift (exact same lift as yours)..you could either: A) fight with the old LCAs and try to recondition them (a lot of work and no guarantee you will be successful) or B) get new LCAs
-Sounds like you definitely need new UCAs with built in added caster, which I don't believe can be purchased from rockauto..http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/218791-uca-question-thoughts-course-opinions-welcome.html
-with those 3 things you should be able to get a solid alignment, which would be a great starting point. The darting and touchyness of the steering wheel should then be fixed with a in spec alignment. (Request an alignment sheet printout of before and after specs!)

-checkout my build thread, in my signature, it could help out since we have very similar lifts...good luck with your research

thank you for your input,thats what actually i was going to do but wasnt sure......

now i am kind of convinced,just gotta save up some money and do it.

 

[morphious]

no i did not install shock myself,my mechanic did it.....

i will do that when the weather gets better,this rain is not going to stop for next 3 days .......


so is it worth buying ebay UCAs and additional sleeves and bolt vs stock UCAs?
the price is about the same ..
how is UNiball treating you?a lot of maintenance required?


thank you.

I have had no issues with my UCAs since upgrading the sleeves but no matter what you need NON-STOCK arms as you need to gain the caster you lost from lifting. I have not really done anything to the balls except occasional wipe down and spray lube. I would read as much as you can on after market UCAs and purchase the ones you feel most comfortable with.

 

[beliy25]

I have had no issues with my UCAs since upgrading the sleeves but no matter what you need NON-STOCK arms as you need to gain the caster you lost from lifting. I have not really done anything to the balls except occasional wipe down and spray lube. I would read as much as you can on after market UCAs and purchase the ones you feel most comfortable with.

i will purchase the ones that people on here already used and experienced.

these will be the ebay ones,i have been watching for them a long .



and this is what my shocks look like.


i am not able to do what you suggested because this rain will never stop here,but i managed to take couple of pics.

 

[morphious]

[MENTION=78378]beliy25[/MENTION] From the amount of grease that is on your spindle where the UCA ball joint attaches, I would guess the UCA ball joint is probably worn out and causing the issues you described previously. I would get new UCA's installed, a new alignment, and go from there. I would think after that you should be good to go, if not it will give you a much better position to trouble shoot further.

 

[beliy25]

[MENTION=78378]beliy25[/MENTION] From the amount of grease that is on your spindle where the UCA ball joint attaches, I would guess the UCA ball joint is probably worn out and causing the issues you described previously. I would get new UCA's installed, a new alignment, and go from there. I would think after that you should be good to go, if not it will give you a much better position to trouble shoot further.

thank you very much for your input of knowledge.

i will post the results when i get the UCAs installed and alignment done.

if it is possible,would you please provide me with the alignment that is suppose to be with new UCAs so i could show it to my mechanic and match it as close as possible?

 

[morphious]

[MENTION=78378]beliy25[/MENTION] You really just want to get it within stock specs, that is what you are trying to achieve by installing new UCA's after lifting. Here are my alignment numbers when I had mine setup like yours with 5100's / FJ coils with front set at max and a 1.5" spacer in the rear with new eBay UCA's.

 

[beliy25]

thank you very much man,i really appreciate it.