Why are dealers so uneducated?

[philsey]

.....In my dealings and working in the industry sadly the people that are the best car salesman are actually the ones who don't have "higher" education, but the ones who have the rise and grind mentality and built a great book and customer base. Just my .02.

Amen. Straight commission sales here, 40 years. As a new sales manager I used to think I could teach anyone smart to be a good sales person. Not so.

Why not........I mean it literally is there job, and what you are paying them for. You know an exchange of monies for a service?

Wrong. Good theory, but you don't get to decide what "their job is" - the sales manager does. And he/she concludes it's a numbers game, not a "most knowledgeable guy wins" game. Look at DJ up there ... he walked for $847.00. Screw the service and knowledge. Right?

..... Again its their job and that if they want to be successful and have a higher close ratio it is in their best interest in keeping abreast with their industry. The hard part is already done the person with the money is right in front of you. If you dont know your way around the product or why its superior than a competing dealership even a competing salesmen in your dealership will gladly help them.

:loco:

:flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig:

 

[el_kab0ng]

1. KDSS does not smooth out the ride on the highway. It actually makes the ride "rougher" in the sense that it tightens up the sway bar. Now, it will corner with reduced body roll at speed and it will allow more articulation off road under 12 mph but thats it.

Take a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLF6n3nMwww

 

[el_kab0ng]

That's a total of 29 different vehicles. Some vehicles have six configurations. Some have eight. Let's say six is average just for clarity. That's 29*6=174 different configurations they need to know. Sure, the 174 different configurations are all based on building from a base of 29 different vehicles, but the configurations can vary a lot! And, many of them change yearly. We also know how "good" the literature is from Toyota. Yeah right. I don't know about you but knowing every detail about 174 of anything is quite a task. So, now I give my guy a pass if he does not know every detail of a vehicle that I have been studying for weeks.

I get that we shouldn't expect a dealer to know everything about every car they sell, but if you look at my original post, the dealer was giving out FALSE information rather than just admitting he didn't know the answer in an effort to dissuade and misinform. That's worse, IMO.

 

[el_kab0ng]

So, hello DJ, I'm Phil, XYZ Toyota's 4Runner specialist. I've been the Specialist for 5 years, and I know the product line thoroughly. I have been tested and awarded Toyota's Five Star Gold Super-duper plaque every year.

Now, to be The Specialist I earn a slightly higher commission than Joe Schmoe over there, which of course will be reflected in your price.

DJ would you like to come to my office and get started, or shall I introduce you to Joe?

I tend to agree that the sales guy should be paired up with a techie and their quota shared. We do it the same way in ITSEC where the Sales guy is the relationship manager, and the SE is the techie in the room. The sales guy ultimately does all the bullshit paperwork no SE wants to do, so his commission would always be a little higher (they're usually on a 50/50 split compared to a 70/30 or 80/20 for the SE), but without the same accelerators for when quotas have been exceeded as the SE would get.

It's a model that has worked well for years in the IT industry, so why not carry it over to vehicle sales?

 

[wadle5]

Amen. Straight commission sales here, 40 years. As a new sales manager I used to think I could teach anyone smart to be a good sales person. Not so.

Wrong. Good theory, but you don't get to decide what "their job is" - the sales manager does. And he/she concludes it's a numbers game, not a "most knowledgeable guy wins" game. Look at DJ up there ... he walked for $847.00. Screw the service and knowledge. Right?

:loco:

:flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig::flypig:

No, it IS their job......its sales, they are called salespersons? They are supposed to SELL me on the vehicle? That is their exact job description and that is exactly what their manager wants as well? The more knowledge and the better you are to deliver on that and for the right customer and sell them on the vehicle is exactly what that industry is. In regards to the numbers game you missed the whole "there is a bottom dollar the dealer takes, and anywhere between that and the listed price is the commission for the salesperson?"

Unfortunately "smart" doesn't mean they are teachable. The "science" behind it isn't difficult, some people just make it moreso than others. You are going to sit there as a manager and tell me the more you know about the product you sell doesn't help sales?
:shrug:

 

[MossJenks]

The average consumer is part of the problem as well. As central as the automobile is to American culture, few Americans really know much about them. Most people show up to the dealership with requirements like "I want an SUV with a backup camera, bluetooth and satellite radio". It behooves the salesman to concentrate on what the various option packages are rather than learning about the "underhood" tech that most customers neither know nor care about.

 

[RUNTHAT]

I get that we shouldn't expect a dealer to know everything about every car they sell, but if you look at my original post, the dealer was giving out FALSE information rather than just admitting he didn't know the answer in an effort to dissuade and misinform. That's worse, IMO.

This:

1. KDSS does not smooth out the ride on the highway. It actually makes the ride "rougher" in the sense that it tightens up the sway bar. Now, it will corner with reduced body roll at speed and it will allow more articulation off road under 12 mph but thats it.

If the salesman said that KDSS does not smooth out the ride, then he did not give out FALSE information. I would argue that a nonKDSS equipped 4R rides "smoother". Also, the claim that KDSS isn't worth the money is subjective. It may or may not be worth the money someone.

 

[1engineer]

Take a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLF6n3nMwww

I've seen that video fifty eleven times. I also point people to that video. I've had both... KDSS is not nearly as smooth on the highway as a non KDSS equipped SR5. It's like having low profile tires and big ol sidewall tires.

 

[mnofpeace]

The average consumer is part of the problem as well. As central as the automobile is to American culture, few Americans really know much about them. Most people show up to the dealership with requirements like "I want an SUV with a backup camera, bluetooth and satellite radio". It behooves the salesman to concentrate on what the various option packages are rather than learning about the "underhood" tech that most customers neither know nor care about.

...and isnt this partly why vehicles like the 4runner are dying out to begin with?
Yes, there are plenty of us who want the exact niche that vehicles like the 4Runner & Jeep Wrangler fill. But unfortunately, aren't there so many more people who walk into dealerships with these vague descriptions of what they want, or think they want. And then are steered to the latest CUV that looks the part, with the salesman, dealer, & manufacturer already armed with the information that 99% of these buyers will NEVER truly need what the 4Runner can really do...But that customer gets the bluetooth, sat radio, & backup camera in an SUV package that makes them feel the part.

and thus, a salesperson really doesnt need to know the ins and outs of every technical system built within the vehicle...
just food for thought on the subject.

 

[S p a r k y]

I want it all!!! If I'm spending $40k, I want someone I talk to to at least know what I am buying.

I have long thought that dealers should have specialists for certain cars / trucks, but realize it is difficult to staff that way. When I sold electronics at a now closed box store, we had our areas, I sold home theater sound and speakers, but if someone wanted a TV to go with it, I had to pass him off to a TV guy and we'd split the spiff.

If you go further up the Vehicle food chain you can get what you want. But its going to cost much more than $40k. Higher end cars with less vehicles can give you that.

We probably used to work for the same box store. It is now out of business partly because of that technique. That box store started before so much internet and people went there to get knowledge and choose something. Now people get their info from the internet, make a decision, then get a "sales guy" to do the ordering or processing.

 

[SacStateHornets]

Because they can, it is human nature to take the path of least resistance. If they can hit monthly quota without having to exercise their brain, they won't.


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[Muzzle of Bees]

The chasm between effort and expectation in the working environment is enormous. Everyone wants a quick path to success. That is the problem.

 

[cdiset]

Got a friend of mine kicking the tires on the right kind of T4R that meets his agenda. He's keenly interested in the KDSS option I have on mine (and understands if he goes the TRD Pro route, KDSS isn't feasible), but the dealer is giving him conflicting information. Specifically, that KDSS doesn't 'smooth out the ride at all' and isn't worth the money.

Now I can tell alot of you out there are screaming bullshit right about now as those of us with KDSS do notice a difference on long haul trips and in the corners more than we do the sway bar disconnect, but why would a dealer avoid a sale by saying stuff like that? Is it due to lack of education or just trying to avoid the hassle of ordering one in from Japan because they don't stock KDSS enabled T4Rs?

In any event, we are planning a trip to said dealer in my T4R so I can hear it from the horse's mouth and then kick his smart balls all the way up to his smart mouth.

I saw your "why are dealers so uneducated" and since I am currently having a bad experience with Toyota in general, I wanted to see what you wrote. And coincidently, my problem is with KDSS. I plan on posting a complete recap of my situation when I reach a conclusion, but for now I will throw in my 2 cents regarding a functional KDSS system.

KDSS is awesome on the highway, PERIOD. Below 12mph it "loosens up" and when you are off roading this allows for easier articulation. Above 12 mph off road is where it sucks. It is a thick swaybar and when it is "locked up" you feel every rock.

Everyone is spot on when they say the dealer just wants to move inventory. The KDSS is amazing. Will I buy a 4runner with KDSS again? NO. If it goes bad, and I can confirm that it does, it is expensive to repair if it is out of warranty. And if you modify the suspension, and need warranty service, good luck.

 

[philsey]

.... but had clearly done his research on the truck before I came in and was able to speak intelligently about the options and price walk between the packages. Unfortunately this knowledge wasn't worth the $827 more they wanted for the truck then the next guy, but I did let his manager know he did a fantastic job with the sales presentation, even though that is worth $0.00.

No, it IS their job......its sales, they are called salespersons? They are supposed to SELL me on the vehicle? That is their exact job description and that is exactly what their manager wants as well? The more knowledge and the better you are to deliver on that and for the right customer and sell them on the vehicle is exactly what that industry is. In regards to the numbers game you missed the whole "there is a bottom dollar the dealer takes, and anywhere between that and the listed price is the commission for the salesperson?"

Unfortunately "smart" doesn't mean they are teachable. The "science" behind it isn't difficult, some people just make it moreso than others. You are going to sit there as a manager and tell me the more you know about the product you sell doesn't help sales?
:shrug:

Dear Mr Wadle; You have a lovely opinion of how car sales OUGHT TO BE, but not-so-much of how IT IS.

Please read DJ's post I quoted above, which is spot-on to the typical car buyer.
He encountered a "good" salesperson, took the services, and walked next door for $827.00. No remorse, no purchase-for-a-job-well-done. You honestly think car salesman don't know this, don't face it hourly? Srsly?

 

[wadle5]

Dear Mr Wadle; You have a lovely opinion of how car sales OUGHT TO BE, but not-so-much of how IT IS.

Dear Phil...you have a lovely opinion of how the industry should work, but I notice how you avoided the question. What your previous post are saying and what you wont acknowledge now is you are refuting the statement that the more you know about a product you are selling doesn't help sales?

He mentioned money was a good cause, but the OP is saying the salesman is blatantly lying to him, thus missing out on a sale? You are kiling the circular rant though......

 

[05Rrunner]

It's no big secret or surprise to anybody who shops retail that most sales people selling whatever don't have a clue what they're talking about from the kid at Best Buy to the guy selling the Toyota Tacoma. It's all just sales to these kind of people. Most sales people are just sales people that have sold things in other areas of life so they decided to try to sell cars. There is a high turnover rate in sales people which is another factor. In the end like any other purchase you have to educate yourself and go in armed with the information that you need to make the correct purchase and all thoses sale people are there are to do is help facilitate the purchase and get your money period. There not going to educate you on the product anymore.

 

[JoeG19]

I sold Mini's for a year back in 2003 to get some one-on-one sales experience. I knew the cars inside and out. My problem was that I would sell the buyer on the car and they would go to the next dealership south and buy it for cheaper because the place I worked pac-ed each car with a $1500+ addendum for floormats, pin stripes, and a phantom wax job marketed as "paint sealant". Not to mention a larger dealer fee as well.

 

[philsey]

I sold Mini's for a year back in 2003 to get some one-on-one sales experience. I knew the cars inside and out. My problem was that I would sell the buyer on the car and they would go to the next dealership south and buy it for cheaper because the place I worked pac-ed each car with a $1500+ addendum for floormats, pin stripes, and a phantom wax job marketed as "paint sealant". Not to mention a larger dealer fee as well.

Shhh. Don't tell this to [MENTION=84680]wadle5[/MENTION] .... he still thinks ppl are loyal, and buy from the guy with the most knowledge. 'kay?

:hippie:

 

[wadle5]

Shhh. Don't tell this to [MENTION=84680]wadle5[/MENTION] .... he still thinks ppl are loyal, and buy from the guy with the most knowledge. 'kay?

:hippie:

Ah still beating this dead horse Phil? You know for being a "manager" you sure have a lot of time to kill on the interwebs? How are the numbers looking this month?
My statement was the more knowledgeable you are on a product the more likely you are to actually sell the product. [MENTION=171795]JoeG19[/MENTION] did sell the people on the idea of a mini, but typical upper management bullshit by upcharging 200% for mats and a pinstripe made those individuals go to other dealerships that actually had fair prices.
So in conclusion he did sell them on the car(Because of his knowledge), but the dealership screwed the salesman and themselves out of a deal in attempt to move more higher priced(read OVERPRICED AND UPCHARGED) units than mass quantities of reasonably priced units . ...happy Friday man. Good luck this weekend

Micdrop


Edit: I also noticed you keep picking and choosing which parts of my questions you want to refute. I feel like someone is missing the politics and religion parts of this forum and you just want to ramble. So in honor of your desire here is a song for you and I hope you get your Led on

https://youtu.be/_h9MxNn8P7w


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[ZiaMan]

And on the Toyota Salesguy Forum there is a thread called 'why are 4runner buyers so uneducated' and cite continued questions about TRD Pros with sunroofs and when the redesigned 2018 model is coming out

:humble: