Why do my New KING Shocks ride like crap?

[Unner]

You won't want to hear it again, but 700 is too much for the front. I just put Kings on my truck, and I went with 650. Mine is just about as heavy as they get. Bumper, winch, full skids, sliders, roof rack.

The reason the rear rides poorly? It's an archaic design. The front is IFS, the rear is solid axle. Look around here, everyone complains about how the rear rides compared to the front. I'm looking for ways to get my rear to ride better myself.

And in general, the members around here have more knowledge than the people at Toytec, etc, unless the person you're speaking with has specific experience with that vehicle. They are the jack of all trades, they know a little bit about every Toyota that they sell parts for. The members here know everything about the 3rd gen 4Runner. I don't have a clue what springs, shocks are best for a 4th gen, but I can talk 3rd gen suspension until your ears bleed.

 

[Twisted Sid]

40psi and E load tires? I'd play with tire psi and let a good chunk of that out to see how much the ride improves. Carry a compressor to air back up if needed.
You could do the chalk test on your tires to get the best contact patch on road.

 

[Hepar]

And I do have my truck overloaded around 5500 lbs daily. I know that's a bit much but it has held up for 2 years like this and is worth it to me to run it like this.

What do you have that has your rig at that weight?

 

[BrianSD_42]

40psi and E load tires? I'd play with tire psi and let a good chunk of that out to see how much the ride improves.

To be fair, my E load tires say Max pressure 65 psi. Are they softer at 35? Probably but 40 is already a lot below the operating max of 65. I agree this is all subjective though.

 

[theesotericone]

To be fair, my E load tires say Max pressure 65 psi. Are they softer at 35? Probably but 40 is already a lot below the operating max of 65. I agree this is all subjective though.

It doesn't have to be subjective at all. You chalk test your tires. Once you find the perfect contact path you stay at that pressure. For most guys with E range and a rear swingout 4runner that's gonna fall between 36-38 PSI.

Does a few PSI make a difference? Absolutely.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

Speaking from experience here, 700lb coils are not the devil, and will not instantly make your 4Runner ride like a covered wagon.

I think my 4Runner rides just fine with 14" 700lb coils on Icon 2.5 coilovers. 700lbs is only a 20% increase vs. the stock rate of ~580. MANY of us run well over a 30% increase in coil rate out back (160 stock vs 220 on 861s) but everyone freaks out about a 20% increase up front?

I ran 650lb coils on Toytec coilovers and found the setup too soft, so I went to 700lb coils with the Icons. I've also run the progressive TRD Tundra coils which have an initial rate in the low 600s and go up from there. By the time you preload them 2-3" to get a decent front ride height, I'm sure the rate is closer to 700lbs. I don't find the ride quality of the 700lb coils much different than the Tundra coils.

I will admit that for crawling, the 700lb coils are not ideal and do limit front end articulation. Because of that I will probably go back to a 14" 650lb coil someday.

It's all personal preference, and there is more to the equation than just the coil rate.

 

[Boom Headshot]

I am enjoying this thread for a multitude of reasons.

 

[NWFL4Runner]

Up front: Assuming your shocks are valved for a 3rd gen with your additional weight, then if it rides like crap, it's either coils, bushings, or sway bars links, and/or a combination of all 3.

In the rear: Assuming the same thing about valving, then it's coils, bushings, link length (upper/lower/pan), sway bar links, and/or a combination of them all.


My Kings started life with 700lb coils and I've got 600lb coils in my garage waiting to swap out for exactly that same reason.

I wouldn't try to compare the Billy/Toytec shock/coils to Kings and as if they are apples to apples.

 

[phattyduck]

To be fair, my E load tires say Max pressure 65 psi. Are they softer at 35? Probably but 40 is already a lot below the operating max of 65. I agree this is all subjective though.

Load rated tires should be inflated to match the load on the tires, and not anywhere close to the max unless you are putting large weight on them... (like, F250 5th wheel towing a 15k trailer, that kind of stuff)

-Charlie

 

[Cree]

Load rated tires should be inflated to match the load on the tires, and not anywhere close to the max unless you are putting large weight on them... (like, F250 5th wheel towing a 15k trailer, that kind of stuff)

-Charlie

I was going to point out that max pressure does not equal operating pressure most of the time but figured it was common sense....

 

[BrianSD_42]

Load rated tires should be inflated to match the load on the tires, and not anywhere close to the max unless you are putting large weight on them... (like, F250 5th wheel towing a 15k trailer, that kind of stuff)

-Charlie

Agreed. I usually run my General Grabbers at 40, not 65. Edit: never used the chalk test, will check it out.

 

[fourfive]

It doesn't have to be subjective at all. You chalk test your tires. Once you find the perfect contact path you stay at that pressure. For most guys with E range and a rear swingout 4runner that's gonna fall between 36-38 PSI.

Does a few PSI make a difference? Absolutely.

I agree with the chalk test to find the appropriate PSI. On my previous BFG KOs I had them at 40psi because in theory it made sense to me that tires that are slightly over inflated would have better mpg's but after doing the chalk test I dropped my psi to 30-32 psi & the ride significantly improved to the point where it felt like I had a new suspension & it did not impact my mpgs. All the bumps and pot holes in the pavement were absorbed much better & didn't feel like my 4runner was rattling apart every time I would drive over rough roads. The overall drivability and handling felt much better. This was one of many lessons I have learned about things sounding good in theory and what the actual outcome is. I have noticed that my ride quality is influenced by other factors in addition to shocks and springs. As I was going through & refreshing all my old parts, bushings, body mounts, tires, psi, etc, the ride quality would improve each time. This isn't new information but an observation I thought I'd share.

 

[JayRolla]

I agree with the chalk test to find the appropriate PSI. On my previous BFG KOs I had them at 40psi because in theory it made sense to me that tires that are slightly over inflated would have better mpg's but after doing the chalk test I dropped my psi to 30-32 psi & the ride significantly improved to the point where it felt like I had a new suspension & it did not impact my mpgs. All the bumps and pot holes in the pavement were absorbed much better & didn't feel like my 4runner was rattling apart every time I would drive over rough roads. The overall drivability and handling felt much better. This was one of many lessons I have learned about things sounding good in theory and what the actual outcome is. I have noticed that my ride quality is influenced by other factors in addition to shocks and springs. As I was going through & refreshing all my old parts, bushings, body mounts, tires, psi, etc, the ride quality would improve each time. This isn't new information but an observation I thought I'd share.

Chalk test had me at 24psi on my muds. Ran 28psi and it was perfect. 30psi on my all terrains.

 

[JayRolla]

I am enjoying this thread for a multitude of reasons.

I've been sitting back eating popcorn enjoying the show.

 

[fourfive]

Chalk test had me at 24psi on my muds. Ran 28psi and it was perfect. 30psi on my all terrains.

30 PSI is where I seemed to have the best chalk test outcome but I would go back and forth between 30-32 psi because in my head I felt like 30 psi was too low but in reality I know that is the pressure I should keep based on my results. Old habits I guess. Still trying to learn & break old ways of thinking especially when it's outside of what's normally accepted...I'll admit the mental process of it is a barrier I'm trying to overcome :nerd:

 

[calicojax]

Been enjoying this thread with a few Heine's. waiting for octanejunkie to ask for pics.
Now if I can help. Sounds like there is to much preload on the fronts. I can say from my own experience with Kings. If you are trying to get a full 3 inches of lift, there will be to much preload. It will ride like the truck is on it's tippy toes walking across a floor full of thumb tacks. I had to lower them down to about 2-5/8. Now ....hell yeah. Especially over 40mph. In the dirt.
Also progressive suspension and digressive suspension handle completely different. (For a reason).

 

[thezentree]

I agree with the chalk test to find the appropriate PSI. On my previous BFG KOs I had them at 40psi because in theory it made sense to me that tires that are slightly over inflated would have better mpg's but after doing the chalk test I dropped my psi to 30-32 psi & the ride significantly improved to the point where it felt like I had a new suspension & it did not impact my mpgs. All the bumps and pot holes in the pavement were absorbed much better & didn't feel like my 4runner was rattling apart every time I would drive over rough roads. The overall drivability and handling felt much better. This was one of many lessons I have learned about things sounding good in theory and what the actual outcome is. I have noticed that my ride quality is influenced by other factors in addition to shocks and springs. As I was going through & refreshing all my old parts, bushings, body mounts, tires, psi, etc, the ride quality would improve each time. This isn't new information but an observation I thought I'd share.

Yep. Huge difference in ride quality between 35psi (door sticker) and 30psi on the E-range KO2s I used to have.

 

[Andy in Pa]

I have to hop on the tire psi amount band-wagon here too. Load range E tires are meant for larger trucks, and the max pressure rating is a "Not to Exceed" rating, not a recommended tire pressure to be driven on. Load range E tires on our 4R's, even carrying a bunch of weight, should be around 30psi. Even that may be too high for new tires. I started out at 40psi and it was way too stiff. I keep my 315-70-17's at around 28psi and they have a small sidewall bulge when contacting the road (as all tires should) just sitting, feel tight around corners and ride fine.

Its also possible that the front and rear tire pressures won't match either with a chalk test. Fronts may need 35, while the rears need 30.

 

[Flemster]

I didn't quite get to read the entire thread but have you checked all your bushings. My truck which has a fairly decent. Not great but decent suspension setup, 600lbs toytec extended travel boss, fox resi and 861's in the rear. It rode like crap after a while. Changed LCA front and rear bushings, upper control arm bushings in the rear and steering rack bushings. Rode a whole lot smoother, no jarring hits being the suspension soaked it all up, Not the rattling end links and sloppy control arms. No, its not gonna change it drastically but its noticeably quieter, which some equate the sound of their suspension to the ride quality, I know I sometimes do (Seems to ride nice with the windows up, cant hear the rattles). Just food for thought. Also this was a very entertaining read, thank you for the 3rd gen 4runner mafia ish drama. I needed some of that today.
Carry on :hungry:

Another thing to consider is having the proper length bump stops so your hit rubber and you are not bottoming out your shock..... Wheeler super bumps ride very nice from what I have heard, especially in the front.

 

[muellernautique]

I've got E rated tires at 38PSI and Eibach #620 springs with Taco Billies. Fully armored with a winch. Rides great for what it is.

what is the ride height? not too familiar with the taco height, but this may be the route I take for my upcoming lift.