WMW, Gobi just won't quit

I would second this. WM has to be forced into "asking" to delete evidence. Why would he do that now. The threads were closed and the forum was quiet? Now after the settlement "he" is "asking" to remove all threads of basic incriminating evidence against Paul and his company. Legal 101 people. Gobi is watching the forum and doing a PR smear campagin, and now still they are tryng to get this public community to dispose of any evidence of this occurring. All evidence of WM has been deleted on the web . . no website or Facebook. Nothing. If a true design change was in effect why would he need/"want" to delete his only means of communication. I dont believe an "agreement" was reached. Moreso a threat. The company is disgraceful and the public should be able to view the public forum in its entirety.


If Gobi was a truly honest company why would they delete any discussion of evidence on here and Facebook and their website.

I can not speak for Josh, but I can speak as someone who has gone an intellectual property dispute, and it was my property that was abused. No I definitely do not think that is the case, here.

These types of legal battles sap the energy of all involved and they can distract you from your future goals and plans...No matter who is right and who is wrong, both parties brands get hurt. In the south we have a saying that applies...let sleeping dogs lay, translated, let Josh get back to his work, and building his future plans, that is what he has requested of all us.

By the way, for anyone who is interested, I learned a very valuable lesson during my dispute...it is not the day the patent is filed that determines who has the "intellectual" property right to the property, which is actually something that is almost ethereal. A patent is not like anything else in this world as it basically is the government recognition that an idea exist and its yours, even if it is in your head, and another guy is building, or programing it.

So, the day you can prove you had the idea, is the date used to determine whose property right it is. Unfortunately, how do you prove something that lives in your head, on a card, or in a notebook, predates the other?

Therefore, whenever I have an idea, the first thing I do is draw it and define it, write a cover letter, have it notarized, (an unnecessary extra precaution,) place it in an envelope and mail it to myself certified. It does not ever get opened, and like the idea in my brain, it might jus be stored in my safe until I die, unless I have to defend myself in court. Of course after the first step, I do a thorough patent search, (this also teaches you to write a good description as a bonus).

I have one experience when I was contacted by an attorney, where I held up the envelope, and described what was in it, asked if his client was a gambler. The attorney advised his client to drop it. I was not bluffing, but also told them I had no problem with them continuing their operations.

After my first beating in a patent case, I decided never again...let the free market reign, but I will protect myself.

My guess is that Gobi's victory is bittersweet, if it is not now, it will be, and Josh wants to get on with life...kill this thread, and Let sleeping dogs lay.

If you really want to support Josh, encourage him to get the bumper plans, and slider plans together, pricing, and then buy a set...but be advised, I think I am already ahead of you on the list.
 
As stated. It would be fine if the old threads weren't deleted....again.

I get that, but the last two threads on the subject quite literally involve WMW in the title...

Perhaps something along the lines of "GOBI/ID2 Unethical Business Practices!?" or "GOBI/ID2 At it again with Distasteful Ethical Woes!" and talk about how the "owner" of ID2 seems to be a patent hoarder/seller or that this is not the first time ID2 has pulled these shenanigans (listing other times it's been noticed) and mention the recent WMW issue as an additional data point rather than making it the focus of a crusade against GOBI. We can just talk about how this is not the first time this has happened and how it makes such a company look objectively.

All I am saying is there's plenty of evidence against the company to be rehashed without having to keep throwing WMW in the spotlight. Also I find the deleting of the thread equally suspicious and annoying, but like I said; we can always make a thread specifically dedicated to pointing out issues noticed with GOBI/ID2 without needing to drag Josh's company into this again.
 
So, the day you can prove you had the idea, is the date used to determine whose property right it is. Unfortunately, how do you prove something that lives in your head, on a card, or in a notebook, predates the other?

didn't the US switch to "first to file" a few years ago which is solely based on the filing date? or is it more complicated than that, like the first to file is the one who gets the patent but once its approved its protection is retroactive?

also, super sketchy to delete the original thread entirely. disappointed
 
didn't the US switch to "first to file" a few years ago which is solely based on the filing date? or is it more complicated than that, like the first to file is the one who gets the patent but once its approved its protection is retroactive?

also, super sketchy to delete the original thread entirely. disappointed

You are correct, I cannot believe I missed this. In fact, I would have spent a ton of time fighting this...it is wrong, and after a few hundred years it should not have been change...

the reason it has always been resisted, is it gives big companies, with staff attorneys and the funds for the process a clear advantage and the ability to take any idea they want...

Damn, this just ruined my night...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First...s_change_to_first-inventor-to-file_.28FITF.29

I believe as this Wiki states that it is unconstitutional and the last time it was tried that remember, it failed because of the public outcry...

Please pardon me for posting the wrong info...

Not only that, but what really is bugging me, is the fact that I have not had an original idea since before 2011..damn, getting old sucks...
 
(flame suit on)

I think it's hilarious to sit back and watch people bicker and quibble over something that they have absolutely no idea the details on other than one company sued another over a patent issue and it was settled outside of court. Those are about the only facts that have come out of all of this. Everything else is speculation and mob mentality.
 
Also I find the deleting of the thread equally suspicious and annoying, but like I said; we can always make a thread specifically dedicated to pointing out issues noticed with GOBI/ID2 without needing to drag Josh's company into this again.
Agreed. If the initial threads weren't deleted these contingent ones wouldn't pop up. It seems like the more smoke and mirrors they do they really are just continuing to pick at the scab. The dust had settled the threads were locked. Leave them be.
(flame suit on)

I think it's hilarious to sit back and watch people bicker and quibble over something that they have absolutely no idea the details on other than one company sued another over a patent issue and it was settled outside of court. Those are about the only facts that have come out of all of this. Everything else is speculation and mob mentality.
The only mob mentality is the persistence to somehow get those threads deleted even though they have been dormant for weeks now.
And I wouldn't necessarily say speculation, as anyone with a bit of legal intelligence can see that everything has been taken down referencing this, his webistes/fb/gofundme are now no longer active. Even though he "says" he is coming up with a new design to build, why would he get rid of his business website. . . .ie. he really isn't building anymore and the statement he has been posting is not his own words. He doesn't address any other questions about the new design, but simply is only allowed to say "new design changes, and Gobi is great!"
Really?


By no means bring Josh or WMW into or the titles, but I dont believe the original threads should be deleted. After all that is what makes this a PUBLIC forum. . .
 
Agreed. If the initial threads weren't deleted these contingent ones wouldn't pop up.

Deleting the other threads, also lowered my post count from like 60 replies back to thirty-something! And I contributed some good information.

On thing that actually is very interesting to me is reading the filed lawsuit Gobi has to provide proof of jurisdiction that WMW could be prosecuted in Colorado, since WMW is based out of Florida. They did so because Josh has sold racks to people in Colorado "...placed the Accused Products in the stream of commerce, knowing the likely destination of the accused products, and their conduct and connections with the state of Colorado..." So if WMW refused to sell to people located in Colorado then GOBI/ID2 wouldn't have been able to bring suit against them in the State of Coloado. Which means chances are Gobi wouldn't have been as trigger happy to sue WMW. because chances are their hired lawfirm Sheridan Ross P.C. may not be licensed outside of state.

Which by the way, all of this negative attention has been focused on Gobi/Intelligent designs 2000. but there are also legal ethics that govern the conduct of law firms and their practices. Surely this series of frivolous lawsuits that Gobi/ID2 has a record for should have raised a red flag to someone at Sheridan Ross P.C. I know I would be worried about ethical lines that were crossed if I had to represent the Plaintiff in a matter such as this. but apparently, Robert R. Brunelli, Patricia Y. Ho and George T. "Jorde" Scott don't have the same ethical views.
 
Deleting the other threads, also lowered my post count from like 60 replies back to thirty-something! And I contributed some good information.
but apparently, Robert R. Brunelli, Patricia Y. Ho and George T. "Jorde" Scott don't have the same ethical views.

Funny about the post count haha, but on a serious note when money outweighs ethics/logic who could argue their character. Now they are or probably have been monitoring this forum like crazy which is why all of these events have occurred.
Money makes people do crazy things and with enough of it greed and self justification are easy to support any action. :violin:
 
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Agreed. If the initial threads weren't deleted these contingent ones wouldn't pop up. It seems like the more smoke and mirrors they do they really are just continuing to pick at the scab. The dust had settled the threads were locked. Leave them be.

The only mob mentality is the persistence to somehow get those threads deleted even though they have been dormant for weeks now.
And I wouldn't necessarily say speculation, as anyone with a bit of legal intelligence can see that everything has been taken down referencing this, his webistes/fb/gofundme are now no longer active. Even though he "says" he is coming up with a new design to build, why would he get rid of his business website. . . .ie. he really isn't building anymore and the statement he has been posting is not his own words. He doesn't address any other questions about the new design, but simply is only allowed to say "new design changes, and Gobi is great!"
Really?


By no means bring Josh or WMW into or the titles, but I dont believe the original threads should be deleted. After all that is what makes this a PUBLIC forum. . .

I'm sure some of it is legally ordered but how much and what and can you prove it? If Josh says he's redesigning it then why are you doubting him? Maybe he's changing his company's name. Maybe he took the website down for financial reasons. Maybe he is closing down. Maybe he's doing a complete revamp of it. Maybe they are working on purchasing Josh's company. Either way it doesn't matter because until Josh comes out himself and says why it's all just speculation. All everyone is doing here is reading stuff into this without knowing anything of what actually happened behind closed doors other than gobi and wmw and their lawyers. Perhaps part of the settlement was to have all of the posts removed. If I was Josh I'd ask to have them all removed also if it meant keeping me out of litigation with a large corporation.

Point is is that no one here other than Josh, Gobi, and their lawyers know what happened and there is nothing anyone here on this website can prove other than it was settled outside of court.
 
I'll start by admitting that I haven't read most of this thread and don't know anything about Josh or WMW, although he's clearly respected by many people here.

I have to say though, regardless of right and wrong in the actual matter, I find it funny that many people are comparing GOBI to big bad corporate America and treating WMW as the small business. ID2 has only 30 employees and they all don't work for the GOBI brand. They are trying to protect their small business as well. I wont speculate on whether or not they actually had a base for their case but that's all been settled now so patronize who you wish. Hopefully they can both move on and continue to build successful small businesses!
 
Perhaps part of the settlement was to have all of the posts removed. If I was Josh I'd ask to have them all removed also if it meant keeping me out of litigation with a large corporation.

If I was a betting man, I'd wager everything I have that part of the settlement was that Josh HAD to request the removal of those threads and post the post that he did. If I were in Josh's shoes and it kept me out of financial troubles I would do it too. However, I'm also willing to bet that Josh didn't want to do it, but did it only because he was backed into a corner.

The point is GOBI cannot force the forum to remove the previous threads because they have no control over this forum. So instead, by forcing Josh to also request the removal with his "PC statement". It makes it look like both sides think it should be removed and hence the mods doing it.

I think Josh's silence from this conversation minus the PC Statement forced down his throat by GOBI truly shows that what he was forced to say isn't representative of how he feels. And if I am incorrect then Josh is welcome to reply to this and say so. But that won't happen, the litigation is closed, and Gobi cannot force Josh to say anything else let alone they cannot legally force him to lie. Which I will also point out that the reason why they were able to force josh to say "They're(Gobi) is a good company." is because that's just an opinion not a fact.
 
:iagree: Bingo!

Only thing I have to add is that I think it was the [MENTION=5653]admin[/MENTION] that deleted the original thread. If it was a moderator it shows up in the moderator log as to which mod deleted it.
 
Concerning the thread being deleted though...these threads were neither WMW's or Gobi's to request to be deleted, they were both started by other members, so the fact that they are no longer visible seems to be against decorum. In my mind this draws a handful of other questions.
 
Ok I am confused.

Why did Josh settle if this was such a clear cut case of patent abuse? According to the statement, he did seek legal advice regarding patents...and he settled unceremoniously. Why? According to his last statements, Josh was going to fight to the end...and had financial support (to some degree). Gobi apparently won outright...making Josh change his design AND even close down his site (forever? for redesign?).

As I stated before, I wish that we had a TRUE lawyer or patent expert to explain this all to me (and you guys).
 
Ok I am confused.

Why did Josh settle if this was such a clear cut case of patent abuse? According to the statement, he did seek legal advice regarding patents...and he settled unceremoniously. Why?

I believe its a matter of how vague and all encompassing the Gobi patent is. Sure maybe he could have beat it. But the amount of money and time it would have taken would have been extraordinary, much higher than his Go-fund-me account could have ever raised.

It just exemplifies the problem that exists with our current patent system. I hope that Baja-Racks has better luck and/or more resources.
 
Ok I am confused.

Why did Josh settle if this was such a clear cut case of patent abuse? According to the statement, he did seek legal advice regarding patents...and he settled unceremoniously. Why? According to his last statements, Josh was going to fight to the end...and had financial support (to some degree). Gobi apparently won outright...making Josh change his design AND even close down his site (forever? for redesign?).

As I stated before, I wish that we had a TRUE lawyer or patent expert to explain this all to me (and you guys).

He didn't have the funding to fight the patent troll company I suppose. It beats you down, overwhelms you with expensive action.

There are more lawyers in America than there are people.
 
Ok I am confused.

Why did Josh settle if this was such a clear cut case of patent abuse? According to the statement, he did seek legal advice regarding patents...and he settled unceremoniously. Why? According to his last statements, Josh was going to fight to the end...and had financial support (to some degree). Gobi apparently won outright...making Josh change his design AND even close down his site (forever? for redesign?).

As I stated before, I wish that we had a TRUE lawyer or patent expert to explain this all to me (and you guys).

It's like divorce.

Take a hit or fight it and spend the money you win on legal fees and come out exactly or worse in the end.

My attorney went to take care of a personal call and still billed me for the 15 minutes she was out of the office.
 
He didn't have the funding to fight the patent troll company I suppose. It beats you down, overwhelms you with expensive action.

There are more lawyers in America than there are people.

But Gobi is not exactly big company nor deep in funds either....

How did Gobi do against Baja?? Anyone know?
 
What a mess,

*Deleting Threads on the forum that provide information about companies (opinions and A-holes included) should not be done

*Everyone is free to make an opinion based on the information available, hopefully they understand that they may not have all the facts and avoid mob mentality but people who think just because we don’t know EVERYTHING that no opinion/decision should be made are nuts.....I make calls every day with less than all the facts, welcome to life.

*There is a fine line between posting the facts/asking questions and turning into online mobs

*Racks are similar, no doubt about it but so is every LED bar I have seen, or dinner plate, or cell phone, hammer.....anything that is designed to do a specific task will likely be similar as they will be working within the same constraints and trying to accomplish the same goal

*Just because the Law allows you to do something does not mean you should

*Gobi is not a large company

*Shame that this occurred, I would like to know Gobi’s opinion on who benefited from it – Does anyone really win a war or fist fight?

*Would love to know the terms of the Agreement (anyone ask Gobi?)

*Still love my Gobi rack for the product it is but have a bad taste in my mouth about the company and its handling of this issue
 

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