wfo9
New member
That is probably correct, I think it was a 4spd or something goofy like that.
Would you trade your NA v6 for a turbo 4cyl?
- Thread starter Jetboy
- Start date
That is probably correct, I think it was a 4spd or something goofy like that.
Taco04
Member
My main problem with this motor is the peak tq @ 4,400 rpm while it's great for a car it not so great for the runner. As CAFE standards increase these problem will get progressively worse and people will look back and say how great the 4.0L was. To be honest after driving a friends new Taco with the 3.5 I already feel that way...
Omar RVA
New member
Gotta love this pot getting stirred. Something tells me none of the vehicles that share the 4Runner segment will be close to the same price point, further perpetuating the "We want diesels, but will never actually buy one if given the chance" crowd. Knowing how crappy the ecodiesel is, I'm still going to have to test drive the diesel wrangler pick up, knowing full well I won't buy one.
I checked into the 2010 stats...the 4 speed auto is definitely correct. I can't even find the trans code but Toyota never wanted to sell them anyway I guess.
OA
Brandonium
Member
Some of us would buy one given the opportunity... and I'm typically known to do what I say I'm going to do.
There's a reason the Colorado had such a long waiting list and long delivery waits on orders.. and it wasn't because people were only "test driving" them.
There's a reason the Colorado had such a long waiting list and long delivery waits on orders.. and it wasn't because people were only "test driving" them.
Omar RVA
New member
Not calling you out specifically. But the fact is that's how these things play out. Enthusiast groups make up a small percentage of buyers.
I'm not sure which vehicle you're referring to having a waiting list in CO (that's probably the case for any 4wd there). I'm SURE it wasn't the Jeep Wrangler pickup that I specifically referred to in my post.
OA
I'm not sure which vehicle you're referring to having a waiting list in CO (that's probably the case for any 4wd there). I'm SURE it wasn't the Jeep Wrangler pickup that I specifically referred to in my post.
OA
Brandonium
Member
The Chevy Colorado / GMC Canyon Duramax mid-size trucks.. Not the state! lol
Those trucks did and still do have supply/demand issues as people are ordering and waiting for this dying out diesel variant. :rapture:
Now, I don't know what type of cost/benefit scenario it requires to pay back an investment in a new power plant but if people are willing to pay then I am sure that cost can be recouped and bring in new business in the process. It's hard to believe the diesel is dying out if auto manufacturers are investing in it.
I don't get the hate from US markets. What it boils down to is this...if you don't want a diesel then don't buy one as most assuredly there will always be a petrol option (unless you are shopping for a Peterbilt).
Those trucks did and still do have supply/demand issues as people are ordering and waiting for this dying out diesel variant. :rapture:
Now, I don't know what type of cost/benefit scenario it requires to pay back an investment in a new power plant but if people are willing to pay then I am sure that cost can be recouped and bring in new business in the process. It's hard to believe the diesel is dying out if auto manufacturers are investing in it.
I don't get the hate from US markets. What it boils down to is this...if you don't want a diesel then don't buy one as most assuredly there will always be a petrol option (unless you are shopping for a Peterbilt).
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Omar RVA
New member
Brandonium
Member
wfo9
New member
There is no hate for diesel in the market... There is hate for diesel by the EPA (and its actually legit). They are very dirty and destroy air quality.
Think of diesels as people smoking in public places. They cause serious health concerns and that is no longer accepted here in the US.
To keep selling diesels in the US, manufactures are required to add various scrubbers to try to improve the air quality concerns. These requirements will keep getting more and more strict and this will continue to make diesel way more expensive, inefficient, and unreliable. Unless someone comes up with a breakthrough technology for diesels... they are done in the passenger car/truck market. I give them 10 more years max.
The reason Toyota will never bring a diesel to the US market is simple. It would be a money losing move, and they are in the business of making money. Others (like GM and Fiat...) already had the motor and the tech...so very little investment for a short term market win. The economics worked for them, but simply won't for Toyota.
The GM 2.8 duramax is a great motor.. .but go drive one. It's not all that enjoyable. I saw plenty on the lot and the sales guy told me nobody is buying... the price is too high and you can get so much more for your money with a full size v8... Gas prices have a bunch to do with this lack of sales. When it goes back up... they will sell quickly (because people are so short sighted)
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wfo9
New member
I don't know this for fact.. but the 1grfe should have no issues with a small amount of boost. I'm sure the rods and pistons are weak, but a few PSI is almost always within the tolerances. I would not race with it or tow at full boost for hours on end.. but for typical scenarios it should be just fine. I know gadget has been running his for a while..
The road block right now is the tuning. Really curious to see if the magnuson will happen. They seem to have some access to the ECU with the deal they made with TRD. I contacted them a while back about it and they responded saying keep an eye on the website. Not sure if that means anything.. but I took it as some indication it was close.
CF_Machete
Senior Member
Screw diesel. I'd convert to electric or Hydrogen combustion in a heart beat.
I know what some might think, electric?... and my response is "have you ever been dusted by a tesla?" They take off quiet as hell and are gone. I'm sure the gen 5 has plenty more room under the hood to hold a larger battery for longer trips, so Toyota WTF?
Hydrogen combustion, not as efficient but relatively clean, probably a cheaper conversion and faster refueling times. draw backs would be converting a gas infrastructure for hydrogen and handling water exhaust in the winter.
so no to an engine upgrade, but living in reality, That rumored super charger kit has my eye.
I know what some might think, electric?... and my response is "have you ever been dusted by a tesla?" They take off quiet as hell and are gone. I'm sure the gen 5 has plenty more room under the hood to hold a larger battery for longer trips, so Toyota WTF?
Hydrogen combustion, not as efficient but relatively clean, probably a cheaper conversion and faster refueling times. draw backs would be converting a gas infrastructure for hydrogen and handling water exhaust in the winter.
so no to an engine upgrade, but living in reality, That rumored super charger kit has my eye.
EPA does not have the authority nor a reason to ban Diesels. That's not what they do. "EPA Violations" - what are you talking about? And you're right, the market has dictated that diesel doesn't win.
Yup, it is, and there's nothing to be afraid of. 30 mpg on the highway, but 300+ lb ft torque when you need it would make most people happy.
The term "overstressed" needs to go away. The motors that you think aren't "overstressed" were once called "overstressed" by someone who grew up with 125 hp 5+ liter motors. Instead of calling them overstressed, call the old motors inefficient dinosaurs.
No they won't. CAFE standards have nothing to do with power output of an engine, other than it clearly hasn't stopped manufacturers from increasing MPG and power at the same time. If Toyota went with an engine that was truly a downgrade in the Tacoma, that's on them. I have a feeling the new 3.5 with a half decent 6spd automatic would be almost identical 0-60 as the 5th gen.
Some versions of the tesla model S have a higher curb weight than the 5th gen 4Runner. An equivalent 4runner with batteries would make it a class 3 vehicle. I don't think any of us want that
When it comes down to it, thank Prius owners for letting the 4runner continue to exist
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Taco04
Member
I am sure Jetboy was referring to stuff like this...
https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/edge-products-llc-settlement
Cafe dictates the MPG which in turn does effect the motors output since they must meet these regulations.
Jetboy
New member
"Certified motor vehicles and motor vehicle engines and their emission control devices must remain in their certified configuration even if they are used solely for competition or if they become nonroad vehicles or engines," the proposed regulation states. "Anyone modifying a certified motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine for any reason is subject to the tampering and defeat device prohibitions of this section and 42 USC 7522(a)(3)."
Add to that the ability of private parties to sue on behalf of the EPA
For example:
Diesel Brothers TV Stars Face Lawsuit From Environmental Group - autoevolution
And diesel tuning is dead. Ford already locks out the ecu so when you tune one now, you can never reset to OEM. The ECU recognizes a change and you can't hide a re-tune back to stock. So your warranty is void. Most owners don't know.
Add to that the ability of private parties to sue on behalf of the EPA
For example:
Diesel Brothers TV Stars Face Lawsuit From Environmental Group - autoevolution
And diesel tuning is dead. Ford already locks out the ecu so when you tune one now, you can never reset to OEM. The ECU recognizes a change and you can't hide a re-tune back to stock. So your warranty is void. Most owners don't know.
That EPA fine is entirely reasonable and within their power to do so. For what it's worth, EPA also came out and specifically stated that they do not regulate off road vehicles (ie race cars and others). Quoting some news article (another post) that interpreted an EPA proposed rulemaking (incorrectly) means literally nothing.
But what I responded to was the statement that it was an EPA violation. It isn't an "EPA violation", it's breaking the law.
CAFE does not dictate MPG on any single car. It is a fleet-wide standard on emissions and fuel economy. It is why Toyota gets away with making 20 mpg SUVs, and why Ford (with the F150 a large percent of sales) went all out with lightweighting and turbo-downsized motors.
Car companies are exceeding CAFE, and the average power of vehicles has still increased for various reasons. See here, page 8 (pdf page 13): https://www3.epa.gov/fueleconomy/fetrends/1975-2015/420r15016.pdf
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Porsche is going to a flat 4 turbo in the new Caymans (718) instead of the flat 6. So far a lot of people are buying them but a lot of the puriest are having a hard time jumping on board. I personally would rather have the raw power of NA instead of turbo. Most car companies are going turbo for fuel economy and such.
