Yet another highway Shaking problem

[gbc]

Depending where you are from, the roads that have grooves in them could cause your car to sway either direction...
Just a thought

 

[99runnerwa]

I am glad to hear that there's at least a slight possibility that just the tires might do the trick. The shaking is right between 60-70 mph. The Shaking occasionally ceases for a while too. It also seems to want to wander a bit, but equally in either direction. It will track fine most of the time, but pulls occasionally to one direction or the other, not like an alignment where it's always one direction. Never had vehicle do that.

I should be able to report next week if the tires solve the problem.....I have to say I am a bit skeptical, though I have been known to be wrong on occasion (ok, lots of occasions).

That sounds almost exactly like what mine was doing. I chased the problem for a few years until i had the tires road force balanced and the machine said to put over 2 lbs on one of the tires. I got a new set of tires and wheels and have been enjoying the smoothest ride since i replaced the stock tires.

 

[B4MAN]

Thanks for reassuring me. I think I have landed on getting the Dueler AT Revo 2. Costco has them on sale for $548 out the door on all 4 for 265/70/16. I'm considering the 265/75/16, but not sure it's worth the mileage loss. Anyone roll these and know if there's a big difference for added height on this tire. Looks like it's only 1 Lb heavier per tire for the bigger tires.

I have no doubt that I will like the look of the bigger tires better, but not sure I can justify it.

 

[TacticalSR5]

I am glad to hear that there's at least a slight possibility that just the tires might do the trick. The shaking is right between 60-70 mph. The Shaking occasionally ceases for a while too. It also seems to want to wander a bit, but equally in either direction. It will track fine most of the time, but pulls occasionally to one direction or the other, not like an alignment where it's always one direction. Never had vehicle do that.

I should be able to report next week if the tires solve the problem.....I have to say I am a bit skeptical, though I have been known to be wrong on occasion (ok, lots of occasions).

EXACTLY, I have the same same thing going on.. It has been pissing me off so bad since I haven't even owned the thing for a month yet. Ive been thinking of going nuts and replacing everything (stupid idea yes) yet Ill wait for new tires to go nuts later. Its annoying to me but im happy to know its common and no dangerous deal?

 

[A&F]

I've never heard of so many owners having tire balance and shake issues.

Is this as common on other trucks, toyotas, generations of 4runners?

I've never heard this many balance issues on LC or Monteros.

 

[2002_thundercloud]

Same Here!

Same symptoms as everyone else... a mild and just somewhat annoying shake that you just can't narrow down. Mine creeps in about 63-65 and will leave as you increase speed past 75 or 76ish. It comes and goes in that 70-72 range too. I bought my used 2002 Limited 4WD in Feb 11 with around 79K miles on it, it now has 89K miles. It had this mild "tire out of balance" shake from the day I bought it. I assumed it was the crappy tires it had and I planned to replace them, so not big deal right? So far I have:
1.) New Michelin LTX2 tires (Costco) at 81K
2.) Returned to Costco for a rebalance at 81.5K
3.) New OEM 880 /906 springs
4.) New Bilstein 5100 (Tundra spec)front / Yellow 4Runner HD's rear
4a.) Toyota dealer allignment (they did not note any worn parts)
5.) Wheeler's steering rack bushings (LUV!)
6.) Tundra (OEM)231 rotors / calipers
7.) replaced rear drums (61K) with stock used known to have original weights
8.) rotated my spare into each corner and test drove.
9.) jacked up each corner and spun wheel, PERFECTLY round.
10.) removed and thoroughly lubed rear propeller shaft
11.) lubed front propeller shaft

I noticed that the rear tail piece of my drive shaft has a pretty hefty weight on it, but considering the frequency of the shake is clearly the same as a rotating tire, I doubt the shaft is an issue. As you can tell, I have done quite a bit to my 4Runner since I bought it and none of the listed items eliminated the "out of balance" feel. It is mild, but still noticable and because it's right at 70-72 where you want to drive, it's really a pain. It seems to me that it's somewhere in the rear and I even tried indexing the rear wheels around the drum, thinking the drum and wheel might have some slight out-of-balance that magically cancel each other at some point, but I never hit zero, but there is a point where I think it gets a little worse. Even so, you would think that drums that definitely have their original weights in place, and tires that have been balanced twice, would be close enough to zero and provide a smooth ride.
I can't imagine the axle shafts being the culprit, but they are about the only thing I haven't replaced that spins at that frequency. Any thoughts?

 

[chitown4x4]

Well here is some insight.. I swapped on my FJ Cruiser Stock wheels and Tires that have about 8 k miles on them They roll perfect and smooth on my FJ, they rolled fine and smooth on the 4runner....

Then I took the truck off road for the first time, banged it around a bit, drove it home at many speeds around 70 mph, no issues. Took it to the tunnel car wash today... BAM. From speeds 45mph and up there is a vibration that really gets bad at 72 mph..

Im going to see tonight if some mud or something fell off the under carriage and has caused this to just start happening.. :roadkill:

This is an interesting case because the car wash was the instant change and I watched the car the whole time through the tunnel.

 

[1985taylor1925]

I'd ask for my $ back because they didn't diagnose the problem correctly and what they did was probably pointless. I highly doubt they actually removed the rubber boot that covers up the inner tie rod to inspect it before they got your approval. Sounds like guess work to me.

I know it sounds like WTF??, but I still maintain that the u-joint(s) may be your problem. Get under there with the truck in "N" and the tires blocked and shake the drivelines and see if there's any up/down or side-to-side play in the u-joint(s). Here's the best part - it won't cost you $585 to check, just about 2 minutes of your time!

It's very hard to tell the difference between out-of-balance tires, bad wheel bearings, bad u-joints, and a whole list of possibilities just by how it feels on the highway. You seem to have ruled out any obvious steering issues, alignment, bearings, or unbalanced tires. I would also go out and really test your suspension, maybe it is a bad strut like drinkmolson said. Push down on each corner of the truck and see if they all react the same way.

Brian, how do you diagnose a bad set of wheel bearings?

 

[quicksilvr]

Bad front wheel bearings will growl or whine louder when you turn the direction away from the bad bearing. So if the right bearing is bad, when you turn left, you'll hear it. Also, with the wheel up in the air you can try to jiggle the wheel by pushing in at the top and the bottom alternating... and if it moves, it's the bearing that has the play. You shouldn't be able to move the wheel that way. However the shake test can be a little difficult on big heavy wheels and tires. It's much easier on economy cars. lol

 

[1985taylor1925]

Same symptoms as everyone else... a mild and just somewhat annoying shake that you just can't narrow down. Mine creeps in about 63-65 and will leave as you increase speed past 75 or 76ish. It comes and goes in that 70-72 range too. I bought my used 2002 Limited 4WD in Feb 11 with around 79K miles on it, it now has 89K miles. It had this mild "tire out of balance" shake from the day I bought it. I assumed it was the crappy tires it had and I planned to replace them, so not big deal right? So far I have:
1.) New Michelin LTX2 tires (Costco) at 81K
2.) Returned to Costco for a rebalance at 81.5K
3.) New OEM 880 /906 springs
4.) New Bilstein 5100 (Tundra spec)front / Yellow 4Runner HD's rear
4a.) Toyota dealer allignment (they did not note any worn parts)
5.) Wheeler's steering rack bushings (LUV!)
6.) Tundra (OEM)231 rotors / calipers
7.) replaced rear drums (61K) with stock used known to have original weights
8.) rotated my spare into each corner and test drove.
9.) jacked up each corner and spun wheel, PERFECTLY round.
10.) removed and thoroughly lubed rear propeller shaft
11.) lubed front propeller shaft

I noticed that the rear tail piece of my drive shaft has a pretty hefty weight on it, but considering the frequency of the shake is clearly the same as a rotating tire, I doubt the shaft is an issue. As you can tell, I have done quite a bit to my 4Runner since I bought it and none of the listed items eliminated the "out of balance" feel. It is mild, but still noticable and because it's right at 70-72 where you want to drive, it's really a pain. It seems to me that it's somewhere in the rear and I even tried indexing the rear wheels around the drum, thinking the drum and wheel might have some slight out-of-balance that magically cancel each other at some point, but I never hit zero, but there is a point where I think it gets a little worse. Even so, you would think that drums that definitely have their original weights in place, and tires that have been balanced twice, would be close enough to zero and provide a smooth ride.
I can't imagine the axle shafts being the culprit, but they are about the only thing I haven't replaced that spins at that frequency. Any thoughts?

Exact same thing here. Its strange how it comes and goes, but thats what mine does too. Its fine for a few seconds, then it creeps back up. I cant believe Toyota didnt notice this and find the problem. I had never thought about the drums. But seems like if it were the issue the vibration would be constant, not intermitant

 

[1985taylor1925]

Bad front wheel bearings will growl or whine louder when you turn the direction away from the bad bearing. So if the right bearing is bad, when you turn left, you'll hear it. Also, with the wheel up in the air you can try to jiggle the wheel by pushing in at the top and the bottom alternating... and if it moves, it's the bearing that has the play. You shouldn't be able to move the wheel that way. However the shake test can be a little difficult on big heavy wheels and tires. It's much easier on economy cars. lol

Makes sense. I dont think thats an issue on mine then.

 

[chitown4x4]

Well here is some insight.. I swapped on my FJ Cruiser Stock wheels and Tires that have about 8 k miles on them They roll perfect and smooth on my FJ, they rolled fine and smooth on the 4runner....

Then I took the truck off road for the first time, banged it around a bit, drove it home at many speeds around 70 mph, no issues. Took it to the tunnel car wash today... BAM. From speeds 45mph and up there is a vibration that really gets bad at 72 mph..

Im going to see tonight if some mud or something fell off the under carriage and has caused this to just start happening.. :roadkill:

This is an interesting case because the car wash was the instant change and I watched the car the whole time through the tunnel.

Mine Cleared Up... Sprayed out the inside of the wheels... SO here is what it looked like for you intermittent guys.

After the car wash, a small amt of sediment, and I mean small, like about 1oz in weight, gathered at the bottom of the wheel while it was being dried and the interior gone through. When I drove it the wheels were out of balance. Tonight I sprayed water through the inside of the wheels and went for a spin and its gone,, totally gone!! Guess im a lucky one, but makes me think that wheels and tires are the culprit, I had very little stuff in my wheel and it was all over the place wobbles where I thought I was loosing a wheel at 70mph.. I can only imagine what cheap or out of balance wheel/tire would do.

For those on the board that have had the issue, find a forum member close that does not have the issue, swap on his/hers wheels/tires and go for a ride... see if it goes away.

 

[brian2sun]

Brian, how do you diagnose a bad set of wheel bearings?

Bad front wheel bearings will growl or whine louder when you turn the direction away from the bad bearing. So if the right bearing is bad, when you turn left, you'll hear it. Also, with the wheel up in the air you can try to jiggle the wheel by pushing in at the top and the bottom alternating... and if it moves, it's the bearing that has the play. You shouldn't be able to move the wheel that way. However the shake test can be a little difficult on big heavy wheels and tires. It's much easier on economy cars. lol

That^^. Good response Quicksilvr.

 

[ALBPM]

How many of you with this problem are running stock Toyota wheels???

I had all these same problems the minute I drove my brand new 2002 Runner off the lot.
I also read how most of the new 4 Runner owners in the early 2000's on Yota tech experienced this same this same
thing with numerous sets ot tires and trips to the dealer trying to fix the shaking/balancing issues.

Get rid of the crap stock wheels!!!!! That solved all my shaking/balancing problems.

 

[MATTSSSV2004]

How many of you with this problem are running stock Toyota wheels???

I had all these same problems the minute I drove my brand new 2002 Runner off the lot.
I also read how most of the new 4 Runner owners in the early 2000's on Yota tech experienced this same this same
thing with numerous sets ot tires and trips to the dealer trying to fix the shaking/balancing issues.

Get rid of the crap stock wheels!!!!! That solved all my shaking/balancing problems.

I had this problem yesterday and I have stock wheels. I just gave em a good balancing and the problem was solved. another thing im having issues with is that dang loose steering and the knocking noise but im going to do the weld fix on the steering shaft sometime soon to correct that.

 

[2002_thundercloud]

Wheel balancing issues???

I stopped by Costco on my way home yesterday and mentioned that they have already balanced these tires twice and they still seem somewhat out of balance. The tech took my receipt, noticed the vehicle, and stated, "we have trouble getting some Toyota wheels to balance correctly". He said his machine was some new-fangled thing that does all the lifting and moving of the wheel and that the mount up between machine and wheel is made automatically and the large hub size of this wheel doesn't seem to mate up just perfectly to the machine's spindle. He said I should try a Costco store on the west side of town because they had older balancing equipment that does a better job with these Toyota wheels. He said "back in the day" we had an attachment that we actually bolted up to the Toyota wheels with all six lugs, then balanced the wheel. This new machine does not allow for that attachment. Anyway, I'm going to try the west-side Costco this afternoon... if it still doesn't work, then I will pay Beaman Toyota $50.00 to rotate and balance and seel how that goes. I'll report the results....

 

[2002_thundercloud]

we are getting there

The rebalance helped a ton, it's not perfect but very close. The Costco tech at this store commented on the hub/lug centric difference and the importance of using the correct method on these wheels. Anyway, 70mph is almost perfect now, but you can still feel very very minor wiggles from time to time. It's livable though. I may try indexing the wheels around the hubs to see if I can find a sweet spot. Yea... I'm a little picky i guess.

All that to say... Don't assume your wheels are properly balanced just because you just had your new tires installed and balanced at a modern Costco Tire center with the newest balancing machine. Even if you have them do it twice ;-)

 

[sgtstinky]

I have the same problem with after market wheels and larger tires, trying to get them balanced now but not much luck, will apply some of the lessons learned off of this post and see what happens. Its not the wheel bearings or the steering components. I think it maybe the tires, or the lug centric balancing issue. Any suggestions on which tires? I was thinking KM2s 265/75R16. Are Coopers any good? Thats what came with the truck on Cepek rims.

I find the shaking unacceptable, this has got to be tearing up the front end.

 

[bluecollarjock]

Shoot....Im having this exact same problem on a 1998 I just got like a month ago...LOVE the truck, but 60-75mph sometimes the most annoying steering wheel shimmy/vibration....I have a Jeep TJ too, and both of the TJs Ive owned went through their own death wobble issues and its super common on Jeeps, but this doesnt go into full blown death wobble....its more just a total annoying PAIN and frustrating....sometimes Im like in heaven on the highway I love this vehicle so much..other times Im like MFer gonna cost me a ton tracking this down....

It has Racerunner coilovers in front set at 2" lift, and OME rear coils with Bilsteins...it also has 17" Tundra rims, and 265/70-17 BFG ATs. Im a medically retired cop living off a pension in Los Angeles, which is to say I am dead frigging broke paying for grad school out of pocket and going in debt on my small pension with high cost of living...so the 4runner was supposed to save me money long term not eat it, and so far gas wise it does double the mpg of my lifted Jeep so Im happy...if I could only get rid of this freaking shimmy....I was even wondering if its my roof rack, the 4runner has a cool homemade roof rack and Im like dang is that thing doing this? No way its in the wheel for sure, and its not there 100% of the time at all, very inconsistent but mostly on the highway at above 60mph.

I was thinking about getting the front tires rebalanced, but I dont think my shop uses the more fancy modern tire balancer. I was also worried maybe its the wheel bearings (I dont hear anything), or maybe lower ball joints? Its got 150k miles, I was like maybe ball joints just need replacing, or what about the upper control arms why do people do aftermarket control arms? Again Id rather not spend money on any front end parts!

Ive been contemplating a set of Hanook ATm tires P rated in 265/70 17 just because Ive read soooo many good reviews on here and other sites about the tire, and the BFGs I love and have been old faithfuls to me on TJs and K5s for wheeling, but this is a commuter and will at best be an occasional light family trail type vehicle...so I was going to try to replace the tires just for mpg purposes and a milder tread for highway, should I try to do this before chasing down tons of front end part replacements?

Not glad to say it seems to be a common problem, but it does help me from not feeling like Im loco. Previous owner was a good dude, and loves 4runners, owned 4 of them and sold me this one to put him down to 3 and picked up a Tacoma for work after he sold me this. He put brand new front rotors and pads, and had a Toyota dealer replace rear axles seals and entire brake systems right before selling it. So if it was something he knew about or thought was an issue he would have replaced it, he just is one of those kinds of guys. And he has since tried to trade me back for the tires and rims for the Tacoma, so I dont think if he thought the rims or tires were a problem he would be trying to buy or trade back for them....and he has the EXACT same lift and suspension parts on his other 3 4runners, so I dont really think its the coilovers or springs in back if he keeps putting them on different vehicles....

Soooo.......................do I spend the cash on trying to get tires balanced?

Or...wait until I can put new Hanook tires on with the credit card and see how that goes...and then which order to try to attack if needed: wheel bearings, lower ball joints, new upper control arms?


THANKS!!

 

[pauls4runner]

I dont have any vibration issues with my 98 SR5 but my experince as a Toyota tech, I have on numerous occasions during my 3 years at toyota have noticed an issue not very many tire techs look out for. earlier this year my dad had a brand new set of BFGs (dont remeber which ones) installed on his 08 Xrunner Tacoma, from day one had highway speed vibrations, he went back to discount tire 4 times, discount tried telling him it was because he had a bent rim. I finally talked him into making the 45 minute drive to bring it to me. I drove it and verified the vibration, checked wheel balance and 3 of the 4 were out of balance, I corected the balanced and still had the vibration. I double checked the balance and their were out again. so I went back to the balance machine and indexed each rim, one rim was bent, the bent was so minimal the indexing didnt even register it. on the last go round of balancing, I watched the tread as each wheel spun. to my surprise, the wheel it self looked fine spinning but the tread was all over the place left to right. the culprit was tread seperation. he took video and my diagnostic report back to discount. the replaced his tires and the vibration was gone.