12 T4R remote start

I have a 12 trail with remote start that the dealer installed, not the factory one but their own version that allows me to get in and put key in the ignition when getting in without the car shutting off. Not sure what brand they use but it works well.

I have an '11 Trail with the same remote starter. Added at the dealership, not at the factory. That one cuts off if you touch the brake pedal, or hood release unless the key is in the ignition. Opening the door does not affect it. Seems it only affects the ones that use the Toyota Factory remote starter not dealer installed. Sorry to the OP as my post still doesn't help. I'm sure there is a way, if not have the dealer rip it out and install an after market one. I know it would bother me as well, but this is my first remote start.
 
Ok, I think I came up with a reasonable answer for Fouqes.

It seems that those who have an aftermarket remote start, can override the kill switch by placing the key in the ignition, right? If not, brake, gear shift even opening the hood, will kill the engine. Safety precaution, right?

The OEM remote start with the Smart Key, kills the engine when the door is opened right? So no key to put into the ignition to override. No way to override. The question is why?

The problem may be, that the vehicle can and does sense the smart key from a distance. What, 8-10 feet maybe? Whatever the distance, it may be enough so that the vehicle "thinks" the key is in or nearby the vehicle. But it is not really in the car. So you can't use the smart key like a real key to override the kill switch. With a smart key, somebody can get in the truck and drive away unless you use some other action to kill the engine, like opening a door.

To overkill this, let's say you keep your smart key on a hook just inside your walk through garage door and your vehicle is parked just inside your garage. The distance can be only a few feet. You open your garage door (for exhaust), remote start to warm up the truck. Close the walk through door and wait.

Somebody walks up your driveway, see's a running car, tries to get in to steal it. Aftermarket, soon as the brake or gear shift is touched. Car stops.
Smart key, open door, car stops. Theft is defeated. Does this make sense?
 
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I have a 12 trail with remote start that the dealer installed, not the factory one but their own version that allows me to get in and put key in the ignition when getting in without the car shutting off. Not sure what brand they use but it works well.

I think we have to start distinguishing between the models or people are going to get confused.

What you described is an available feature for SR5 and Trail editions. It's the ones with Limiteds with its Smartstart push button feature that people are unable to bypass the requirement that shuts off the engine once a door is opened.

I guess its because there is no "physical key" for the LE owners to use to ensure no one drives off with your car. As far as I know, there is currently no workaround for those with LE and Smartstart.
 
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Ok, I think I came up with a reasonable answer for Fouqes.

It seems that those who have an aftermarket remote start, can override the kill switch by placing the key in the ignition, right? If not, brake, gear shift even opening the hood, will kill the engine. Safety precaution, right?

The OEM remote start with the Smart Key, kills the engine when the door is opened right? So no key to put into the ignition to override. No way to override. The question is why?

The problem may be, that the vehicle can and does sense the smart key from a distance. What, 8-10 feet maybe? Whatever the distance, it may be enough so that the vehicle "thinks" the key is in or nearby the vehicle. But it is not really in the car. So you can't use the smart key like a real key to override the kill switch. With a smart key, somebody can get in the truck and drive away unless you use some other action to kill the engine, like opening a door.

To overkill this, let's say you keep your smart key on a hook just inside your walk through garage door and your vehicle is parked just inside your garage. The distance can be only a few feet. You open your garage door (for exhaust), remote start to warm up the truck. Close the walk through door and wait.

Somebody walks up your driveway, see's a running car, tries to get in to steal it. Aftermarket, soon as the brake or gear shift is touched. Car stops.
Smart key, open door, car stops. Theft is defeated. Does this make sense?

I have thought the same, and my concerns were the same (damn good ideas, btw!). But here is the pickle.

1) Proximity of the key is a very sensitive question. Matter of fact, if you stand a few steps away from the vehicle, it does not sense your presence, thus does not allow for opening a door.
2) With a smart key, you still have the "takeover" step. Same as putting your key in the ignition. You get in the car with your key, depress the pedal, system checks for the key. If signal is recognized, then it goes through a takeover phase; else it shuts motor down.
3) If your running vehicle leaves the proximity of the key (someone drives off while you're chatting your hot neighbor), vehicle shuts down.

the # 3 we tested in my lady's and my client's cars; we haven't tested it in the limiteds, but I refuse to think that Toyota is less intelligent (or secure) than Nissan.

I understand what you're doing, throwing ideas out there is great, but so far every single concern that i've seen, read or heard falls into one of the following :
1) Person (such as yourself) is doing the only logical thing, try to come up with possible reasons - no ability to do a research, due to no test subjects.
2) Installer has no idea how to approach the install, and is lying to the customer to avoid having to deal with a difficult project.
3) A client of the above installer takes things as the ultimate truth, and shares it with others
4) Person just doesn't really want to make any research, and just tells people what his/her uneducated guess is, claiming it to be true.

Please, understand, I am not attacking anyone, just explaining what I've been encountering in a few years of working with shops / building cars.

Again, I do agree with you that it could be an area of concern, but the installers i've dealt with to this day have shown me that our concerns don't really stand the ground.

now, I would not say that it is impossible for an installer to botch up an install.. And, perhaps, the reason why toyota is doing this is to prevent extra questions and extra liability.
 
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this is false.

Same installer who put my aftermarket remote starter in my car has put same model into my friend's Sequoya with push button, his wife's '11 LTD t4r, my second half's Nissan Altima, and one of my client's '10 GT-R just in last two weeks.
He's been installing remote starters on push-to-start systems for over 2 years now, and anti-theft feature is remaining in place.

Foques,

To be clear and on the same page, we are talking 2010 and newer Limited 4Runners with smart key. Your wifes, your friends and your clients vehicles are excluded as they don't meet the criteria! If in fact your installers wifes 10+ 4Runner is a Limited then please do all of us a favor and ask your installer how to override the anti-theft feature of the smart key ignition.
 
How is my second half's car excluded?
she has a Nissan, but it is a smart key. GT-R.. yep, smart key.. '11 LTD doesn't come with a smart key? (I don't know, maybe Yota changed something?), but her LTD has an aftermarket remote starter which she loves, and it doesn't shut off her motor.

I explained above, he uses an additional module in conjunction with a remote starter.
 
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Let's keep the discussion to Toyota's please. There's no need to muddle what already seems to be a confused topic by adding Nissan's smartkey systems into the mix.

Foques: Can you find out what module and what remote start company/manuafacturer your installer used? I don't think anyone said the '11 LTD's doesn't come with Smart Key.

I already stated that we should focus on the Smart Key 4Runner's '11 and '12's (I don't know if '10 LTD's had the Smart Key option). I have an '11 LTD 4Runner with Smart Key feature AND a Pursuit extended range remote starter installed by the dealer so if there is another module available, I'd like to know what that is so I can get it.

Thanks!
 
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[OT] I never got to do a shoot with his car - I shot his family. We have an automotive photographer in the area who took care of GT-R :(
In my defense, the guy does phenomenal automotive photography
[/OT]
 
I have thought the same, and my concerns were the same (damn good ideas, btw!). But here is the pickle.

1) Proximity of the key is a very sensitive question. Matter of fact, if you stand a few steps away from the vehicle, it does not sense your presence, thus does not allow for opening a door.
2) With a smart key, you still have the "takeover" step. Same as putting your key in the ignition. You get in the car with your key, depress the pedal, system checks for the key. If signal is recognized, then it goes through a takeover phase; else it shuts motor down.
3) If your running vehicle leaves the proximity of the key (someone drives off while you're chatting your hot neighbor), vehicle shuts down.

the # 3 we tested in my lady's and my client's cars; we haven't tested it in the limiteds, but I refuse to think that Toyota is less intelligent (or secure) than Nissan.

I understand what you're doing, throwing ideas out there is great, but so far every single concern that i've seen, read or heard falls into one of the following :
1) Person (such as yourself) is doing the only logical thing, try to come up with possible reasons - no ability to do a research, due to no test subjects.
2) Installer has no idea how to approach the install, and is lying to the customer to avoid having to deal with a difficult project.
3) A client of the above installer takes things as the ultimate truth, and shares it with others
4) Person just doesn't really want to make any research, and just tells people what his/her uneducated guess is, claiming it to be true.

Please, understand, I am not attacking anyone, just explaining what I've been encountering in a few years of working with shops / building cars.

Again, I do agree with you that it could be an area of concern, but the installers i've dealt with to this day have shown me that our concerns don't really stand the ground.

now, I would not say that it is impossible for an installer to botch up an install.. And, perhaps, the reason why toyota is doing this is to prevent extra questions and extra liability.

So many issues, so little time! But I agree with you, a test would be a much better then speculation. Although speculation is so much fun. With that in mind, if someone here on the forum with an LTD, and OEM Factory remote start could indulge us with a test, it would be much appreciated. I am loosing sleep.....

Please have a spouse or friend get in your truck, close the door. Then start the vehicle "remotely". Then have the person in the car attempt to drive away. Will the engine die? If not, how long will it run? (I suspect if it drives at all, it will stop when the auto time out goes off).

Now, if the engine died when attempting to move the car after remotely starting it, (before the time out function kicked in). Do everything the same, but with key in hand or in your pocket, but try to get close enough the the truck to where you think the truck senses the key is nearby, but do not open the door. Then see if it can be driven away. Results? Thanks in advance for your help.

The only thing this test will show is a POSSIBLE reason for the open door cut off. Not how to disable it or any other issues. Which is what I was trying to "guess at" in my above post. But I think it IS an additional security function that Toyota placed in their remote start program.

Not to muddy up the water, but I too have Nissan's and a vette, all with smart keys. None with remote start. All my vehicles, ONCE STARTED with a smart key, will run without the smart key in the car. I tested it. Why? Well, since this has happened to me in the past......the smart key itself can fail. The battery went dead. The car sensed the smart key was "gone", bells went off, lights on the dash turned on, I think the car even sent a text message to my wife LOL.....but the car kept running. This, so I can get to a store and buy another battery.

Logically, when using a remote start, you are overriding the smart key sensor, allowing the car to start. After that, I think it will depend on the programing of the remote start module and how it interacts with the ECU of the vehicle. But once the smart key sensor is overridden, there is a risk. Limiting the risk of theft or unattended use, is worthy goal for any manufacturer. Be Safe.
 
I'll try to get in touch with my buddy. His wife isn't exactly a huge fan of me... (i'm a bad influence, being a car guy and all)..

One thing you've ommited from my explanation is the "takeover" mode.

Here is what my second half and GTR guy have to do:
1) Remote start the car.
2) Get to the car, unlock the door, get in.
3) Press brake pedal
4) WAIT for the take over feature to take place (~5 seconds)
5) Press brake and shift to D.

If things are done out of order, engine dies.
I do wonder if it would work same with the key being nearby on T4R (as i'd imagine "sensitive" areas are brand dependant).
I know in my lady's car it doesn't.
If you're just outside the car, it WILL allow to unlock doors, but not start the car (that i've tested).
If you're in the back seat, it won't start / enable the take over the car.
If you're by the trunk, it will not allow start /enable take over, but will allow to open doors / pop the trunk.

I will report my findings once I convince my buddy to take her 4R out for a sping again.

To add:
I can take a video of how my Lady's remote starter works if you like.
 
You mean somebody does not like you, really? I am sure she is simply confused......LOL.

Nice offer as far as taping the "Take over" mode, but I got it. That is really not the issue I am trying to answer. The issue is, Why did Toyota program the factory remote start to kill the engine once the door opens"? You know by doing this, it automatically resets the smart key sensor......which is a form of take over mode, right? Did I frame the issue correctly?

It is my opinion, (untested and just a semi educated guess), is that it is an additional safety function due to the possibility that the smart key sensor can be "tricked" into thinking that the key is in the truck while the truck is "warming" up under the remote start mode. Or, it is a primary safety feature because while in remote start, one can drive away without the key, albeit for a short time, because the smart key sensor has been disabled due to the remote start function. Finally, it may be just an additional safety measure, created under an abundance of caution, and is simply not needed because there is no way you can move the truck without the key in the truck.

Once one knows the answer as to why, one can then make a more informed choice if they really want to disable that feature or not.......

Either way, I hope we get an answer. Be safe.
 
Foques,

To be clear and on the same page, we are talking 2010 and newer Limited 4Runners with smart key. Your wifes, your friends and your clients vehicles are excluded as they don't meet the criteria! If in fact your installers wifes 10+ 4Runner is a Limited then please do all of us a favor and ask your installer how to override the anti-theft feature of the smart key ignition.

How is my second half's car excluded?
she has a Nissan, but it is a smart key. GT-R.. yep, smart key.. '11 LTD doesn't come with a smart key? (I don't know, maybe Yota changed something?), but her LTD has an aftermarket remote starter which she loves, and it doesn't shut off her motor.

I explained above, he uses an additional module in conjunction with a remote starter.
Please reread the bold text quoted from my post! I have no doubt that the Nissan smartkey system operates differently than Toyotas.

I don't think anyone said the '11 LTD's doesn't come with Smart Key.
I re-read this entire thread and also don't see anywhere where this was said.

I already stated that we should focus on the Smart Key 4Runner's '11 and '12's (I don't know if '10 LTD's had the Smart Key option). I have an '11 LTD 4Runner with Smart Key feature AND a Pursuit extended range remote starter installed by the dealer so if there is another module available, I'd like to know what that is so I can get it.
I have the same pursuit system and the same issue but as I said before I don't really have a problem with it but a fix would be kinda nice.

Let's keep the discussion to Toyota's please. There's no need to muddle what already seems to be a confused topic by adding Nissan's smartkey systems into the mix.
It may just be me but it seems that each reply from Foques seems to twist the facts around just a little bit more.

:shrug:
 
I'll use my "sarcasm" font for you next time...

I'm not twisting anything, I am correcting an utterly uneducated and incorrect statement. You want to be hurt about it, by all means, dwell in your ignorance.. and my installer will keep making the $$. I couldn't care less, really.

JTraskell, I absolutely agree with your last post (on all points :P). I also wonder why it is so, and, just like yourself, have only speculation on the topic. I was not trying to argue with your points, I was just throwing out there the facts that I know to be true. I mean, isn't this the way how many discoveries are made?
One throws out a speculation, another picks it up, and partially disagrees, multiple parties get together and, by combining their ideas, figure the puzzle out?
 
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I'll use my "sarcasm" font for you next time...

I'm not twisting anything, I am correcting an utterly uneducated and incorrect statement. You want to be hurt about it, by all means, dwell in your ignorance.. and my installer will keep making the $$. I couldn't care less, really.

JTraskell, I absolutely agree with your last post (on all points :P). I also wonder why it is so, and, just like yourself, have only speculation on the topic. I was not trying to argue with your points, I was just throwing out there the facts that I know to be true. I mean, isn't this the way how many discoveries are made?
One throws out a speculation, another picks it up, and partially disagrees, multiple parties get together and, by combining their ideas, figure the puzzle out?

I was not taking it as an argument as such, but like you said (and I am paraphrasing here), constructive debate is good! I hope you can get to your friend (and not piss off his wife) and find out what we discussed above. I think I will have a chance to go to a dealer today and see if they have an LTD with remote. If so, I will get a sales person who I am sure is bored right now, (mid month) and maybe we can check it out. Be safe.
 
Why did Toyota program the factory remote start to kill the engine once the door opens"? You know by doing this, it automatically resets the smart key sensor......which is a form of take over mode, right? ...Once one knows the answer as to why, one can then make a more informed choice if they really want to disable that feature or not.......

Either way, I hope we get an answer. Be safe.

Answer: For product liability and nothing else. Usually logic gets thrown out the door when attorneys get involved in a design. Unfortunately I have been "involved" in several product liability lawsuits on both sides of the aisle. It's ugly. The question is, why do the aftermarket guys not have all the safety features that the "Toyota" models have? I do not know for sure but it is a safe bet that they simply do not have as many lawsuits as Toyota has. Toyota has the right to be a little gun shy.
 
Answer: For product liability and nothing else. Usually logic gets thrown out the door when attorneys get involved in a design. Unfortunately I have been "involved" in several product liability lawsuits on both sides of the aisle. It's ugly. The question is, why do the aftermarket guys not have all the safety features that the "Toyota" models have? I do not know for sure but it is a safe bet that they simply do not have as many lawsuits as Toyota has. Toyota has the right to be a little gun shy.

Fully agree. But it still does not answer the specific question. Keeping in mind that most state and Federal Courts who have had Remote Start issues reviewed, have determined or have agreed with other courts, that a Remote Start feature is inherently more dangerous then vehicles who do not have that option. And thus, designers, manufacturers, installers have been held to a higher level of "duty" to do all they can to make safe.

ALL the "kill" features built into any Remote Start option, is a type of safety feature, which by definition "helps" prevent product liability awards. But the specific question that I (and I think others have) is,

"If other Remote Start Products from other manufacturers functions well and have apparently survived years of public use (and possible legal challenges) without the door opening shut off feature, is there anything different or logically needed causing Toyota's to install or program this door opening kill feature above and beyond an abundance of caution?"

If after testing we find there is a really good reason for this function, (above just an abundance of caution), then blah, blah, blah.

It's a puzzle and I am having fun trying to answer it!

Be Safe.
 
Like 1engineer said, the answer is that Toyota is just being extra cautious. With all the publicity regarding the "stuck accelerator" pedal outbreak, Toyota is in a hypersenstive mode. From the useless warning message on Nav equipped cars/trucks to every possible "safety" feature to prevent idiots from killing themselves in their cars and then blaming Toyota for it, its the price Toyota has to pay to keep themselves litigation free.

God forbid someone manages to drive off in a remote-started smart key equipped Toyota without the smart key. It's obvious from other manufactureres that there are logical fixes to this (Nissan?) but in the age of everyone suing Toyota, I'm sure their legal counsel advised them to take every possible precaution and then add another layer of useless precautions to ensure they don't get sued.
 

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