2010 Trail vs. 2012/13 Trail

[Big Lou]

Hi all. First post. Considering a Trail Edition and was wondering if someone could sell me on the benefits, if any, of buying a new one over a 2010. From reading the boards here I believe I loose Entune and maybe KDSS. It is a bit unclear and of course the online salesperson has no idea...didn't even know what KDSS was actually. Endstate, I want to put on a lift, some bolt on performance parts, etc...should I hold out for the 13 or go with the 12 or 10? Thanks in advance.

 

[GrantK]

Hi all. First post. Considering a Trail Edition and was wondering if someone could sell me on the benefits, if any, of buying a new one over a 2010. From reading the boards here I believe I loose Entune and maybe KDSS. It is a bit unclear and of course the online salesperson has no idea...didn't even know what KDSS was actually. Endstate, I want to put on a lift, some bolt on performance parts, etc...should I hold out for the 13 or go with the 12 or 10? Thanks in advance.

KDSS is a Trail Edition only option available on all 5th gen. so you don't 'loose' it. Entune is also an option on 2012 and 2013. The only known differences are that 2012 has a slightly different wiring loom than 2010/2011 and 2013 is supposed to have electronic 4wd shift instead of lever shift.

So it boils down to do you want a used one (2010/2011) with maybe someone else's problems/abuse, a 2012 which is technically a year old when you get it or do you have to have brand new?

 

[Big Lou]

Thanks! That clarifies the KDSS and Entune questions pretty clearly. I'll go ahead and link the one I am looking at:

2010 Used Toyota 4Runner Trail at Hendrick Toyota of Wilmington, NC, IID 9166157

Anyone want to offer a bottom line price on what I should pay for this?

 

[GrantK]

That is pre-Entune but does has the Navigation system. However, it does not say it has the KDSS option so it probably doesn't have it which is the main reason for getting a TE in the first place. Without KDSS, a TE is just an SR5 with different trim and a locking rear diff.

The asking price is almost as much as I paid for my new 2012 TE with KDSS and basic (non-Nav, non-Entune) stereo. If you're willing to spend in that price range (before haggling) I'd be looking for a new 2012 or 2013. I paid a nice chunk below invoice for mine.

 

[Big Lou]

Good input, thank you!

 

[HappyJack]

IMHO, the Nav system is not worth it. Spend a few hundred on a good Garmin instead.

HJ's reasons to not get factory Nav:
1. You can not change destinations while driving more than 3 mph.
2. Occasional strange routing. "Get off the freeway, travel 1 mile down this random road, turn around and get back on the freeway." Um, WTF?
3. Your phone's contact book is locked out when moving more that 3 mph. You can access your call history, but it's not as useful.
4. The iPod integration is kludgy and painfully slow.
5. Updates are expensive.

HJ's reasons to get factory Nav:
1. Large screen for the backup camera. This is kinda nice.

After a year of use, I'm looking at replacing the factory Nav. Some people like it, but I find it frustrating and the worst part of the truck.

 

[Big Lou]

:iagree:

 

[Thai]

If the NAVI is like what i have on my Prius, then there are other reasons for it:

1. NAVI...it's only OK; expensive to update
2. Rearview camera...a biggie IMO since Toyota offers no other alternative and i have small kids
3. Phonebook download and useage...again kinda biggie
4. Speed dial option...this is a biggie for me because this allows me to dial my iPhone while moving quickly and easily
5. USB integration...a bit slow, but allows you to see the playlist (on iPhone) and scroll thru it...a biggie for me for sure!

BTW, for 2010 folks, i upgraded my NAVI disc and surprisingly, it also upgraded the USB smoothness!! It also no longer automatically play the first song when you scroll. This is on 2010 Prius, which i am sure is similar to your system.

 

[Antman]

2. Rearview camera...a biggie IMO since Toyota offers no other alternative and i have small kids

If you don't have the NAV- the rearview camera is mounted in the rearview mirror. Smaller screen, but works just as well.

 

[Thai]

If you don't have the NAV- the rearview camera is mounted in the rearview mirror. Smaller screen, but works just as well.

Was that avail in 2010? Wow, cool...like my Subie. Honestly, i still prefer the big screen. The little reaview monitor is too darn small for my eyes...and you get reflections off it too.

 

[Thai]

The other thing that i like is the JBL system. I think that the JBL is no longer avail on 2012-13 Entune, right? If so, then that is another factor to get a pre-Entune 4runner.

 

[THEROK]

Navi is a must. Looks a lot better too.

 

[sandcrawler]

Anyone want to offer a bottom line price on what I should pay for this?

that price looks way high to me. i also don't get the warm & fuzzies when a dealer lists condition as only "good" when it's only 2-years old...

The asking price is almost as much as I paid for my new 2012 TE with KDSS and basic (non-Nav, non-Entune) stereo. If you're willing to spend in that price range (before haggling) I'd be looking for a new 2012 or 2013. I paid a nice chunk below invoice for mine.

i agree. price is nearly what i paid for a new JBL+Nav+KDSS Trail in early 2010. i would keep haggling them way down and keep looking for new in parallel.

IMHO, the Nav system is not worth it. ...
1. You can not change destinations while driving more than 3 mph.
...
3. Your phone's contact book is locked out when moving more that 3 mph. You can access your call history, but it's not as useful.

the voice recognition system that does operate while driving, on the other hand, works surprisingly well... and lets you input destinations and dial by name, etc.

BTW, for 2010 folks, i upgraded my NAVI disc and surprisingly, it also upgraded the USB smoothness!! It also no longer automatically play the first song when you scroll. This is on 2010 Prius, which i am sure is similar to your system.

that's super interesting, Thai. did the 2010 Prius come with the Toyota Gen 6 Navigation system (like the 2010 4Runners)? and did you get the better performance after upgrading to the new 2012 Nav Disc Upgrade v11.1?

The other thing that i like is the JBL system. I think that the JBL is no longer avail on 2012-13 Entune, right? If so, then that is another factor to get a pre-Entune 4runner.

i agree. i drove an Entune-equipped Toyota recently and was struck by how i vastly preferred by pre-Entune JBL+Nav system. it's subjective, though, of course.

 

[Thai]

I think that my Prius was Gen 5...and upgraded to Gen 6. I stopped there.

 

[HappyJack]

the voice recognition system that does operate while driving, on the other hand, works surprisingly well... and lets you input destinations and dial by name, etc.

Sandcrawler, that's a good point. I never got into the habit of using the voice commands. I'll have to try them out again when I get back to the States.

And to the OP, I think you mentioned that you're looking for a KDSS system. That's great, I wouldn't settle for one without it. If you search around this forum, you'll find that most people would agree. Good luck with your search.

 

[sandcrawler]

I think that my Prius was Gen 5...and upgraded to Gen 6. I stopped there.

i don't follow you, Thai. Toyota Nav "Gen 5" and "Gen 6" refer to the hardware, not the software. see J.A.'s excellent site, for example. not being familiar with Prius, i don't know if the 2010 came with the same Toyota Gen 6 Nav System as the 2010 4Runner... make sense?

 

[ssmathis]

If you want a trail edition without Nav but with KDSS, look out here in the mountain regions like Colorado. Almost all of them were sold with no Nav but most trails have the KDSS. Search Craigslist or autotrader.

 

[Big Lou]

Good insight, thanks all. I have contacted 3 different Toyo dealerships in NC and no one I have talked to has the least bit of knowledge about the Trail Edition. I was told that there would not be a single 2013 4Runner TE shipped to NC dealerships which I suspect (based purely on logic) is not true. I am becoming frustrated with the quality of support I am getting from the dealerships. My recent test drive of an SR5 was lackluster as best with the salesperson being completely ignorant of Toyotas in general. Is this consistent with other dealerships? I drove a Range Rover Sport the same day and the rep there was an enthusiast and owner who knew that truck forward and backward and demo'd it impressively. Based purely on my month of dialog regarding the TE, I am inclined to consider something else. Is this truck really that awesome (sincerely)? I've been in a 2003 H2 for the last 120k miles and have been quite pleased there however it is time to find something newer and perhaps a bit more practical. Thanks!

 

[Thai]

i don't follow you, Thai. Toyota Nav "Gen 5" and "Gen 6" refer to the hardware, not the software. see J.A.'s excellent site, for example. not being familiar with Prius, i don't know if the 2010 came with the same Toyota Gen 6 Nav System as the 2010 4Runner... make sense?

Sorry, i meant that i have Gen 6...first came with 9.1, then upgraded to 10.1.

 

[sandcrawler]

Sorry, i meant that i have Gen 6...first came with 9.1, then upgraded to 10.1.

that's great. thanks for clarifying, Thai. and thanks for posting that the firmware upgrade did more than update the maps and waypoints, etc. the fact that the 10.1 software improved the USB usability and did away with that ridiculous "auto-select" behavior is a very compelling reason to upgrade (more so than the updated mapping; for me, anyway). really appreciate the feedback and apologies to the OP for the little topic sidetrack here. :cheers: