2013 LTD Rear Differential Leak at drain plug

T

twoburgers

New member
Just wanted to mention an issue that has recently arisen with my 2013 Limited with 36xxx miles. Only issue to date by the way. I noticed a little oil on the driveway. There was a bit of oil at the rear differential drain plug. Took it to the dealer and they ordered and installed a new drain plug and gasket (incl. new lube). Also worth noting the area did not show having been hit or scraped.
Two weeks later I noticed more oil on the driveway :wtf:, so made an appointment with the dealer. After three hours, I was told they had to open an investigation as this was not a known issue. I was told to monitor the oil leakage rate (cardboard under diff) and they would call me in a couple days.
Given there are really just three parts involved (plug, gasket, diff housing/axel shaft), the service guy thought it could be a bad weld around the plug.
When I asked if they put a color dye in the diff lube today to trace the leak, the service guy looked kind of weird - like he was uncomfortable answering the question. Anyway, I left with the understanding I would hear from them in a few days.
Seems to me that I have a new axel coming my way. Time will tell.
Chris in Richmond (dealer is McGeorge)
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Did they service the diff prior to 36k? Is it the drain or the fill plug that's leaking?

There's two gaskets, one for each plug, and IIRC, the fill requires the flat copper gasket, the drain uses the crush gasket. Maybe they mixed it up and put one where the other should have gone? Or, perhaps they just didn't replace the gaskets at all and reinstalled the plug?

In any case, I'd just clean the diff with a good bath of brake clean, wipe it down with some paper towels, then let it sit for a weekend to see where the leak is really coming from. I cannot imagine toyota replacing a complete axle because the plug is weeping, and I doubt the weld is broken or not properly sealing, as it would have been leaking from day one. This is why I ask if they did a service around 30k or so.
 
Strange,

Sounds like they are taking care of you, its under warranty, wouldn't worry too much about it, as long as you didn't run the diff dry, I am sure they will find the root cause of it, there isn't too much that could be the issue.

Thanks
 
Not sure about the 30K service - if they opened the rear diff drain or not. It has not been mentioned.
However, they did call this morning to say they wanted to put teflon tape around the plug. I said no, and to escalate to the service manager. We all know that's a BS fix, if it is indeed from the plug or the area around the plug. And, if it were the plug, the replacement they installed three weeks ago (incl new gasket by the head tech) would have resolved the issue.
So, let's see what they do.
Again... three parts at play here... plug, gasket, diff housing. They have replaced two of three so far.
 
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twoburgers said:
Not sure about the 30K service - if they opened the rear diff drain or not. It has not been mentioned.
However, they did call this morning to say they wanted to put teflon tape around the plug. I said no, and to escalate to the service manager. We all know that's a BS fix, if it is indeed from the plug or the area around the plug. And, if it were the plug, the replacement they installed three weeks ago (incl new gasket by the head tech) would have resolved the issue.
So, let's see what they do.
Again... three parts at play here... plug, gasket, diff housing. They have replaced two of three so far.
Click to expand...

The intervals for diff fluids are inspect every 15k or replace every 15k for severe service only. Unless you got the severe service maintenance or paid for a differential fluid replacement, they should not have touched the drain plug at 30k. They should have inspected the fluid level at 15k and 30k, but they would have just taken the fill plug off for that. Both the fill plug and drain plug use the same washer on the rear diff. If you want to/have the means to check the plug torque yourself the torque is 36 lb-ft and it's a 24mm or 15/16" socket. Good luck!
 
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My guess is that they overtorqued the plug after checking the fluid level during the 30K service. Check for galled threads on the housing or plug - probably the housing.
 
twoburgers said:
Not sure about the 30K service - if they opened the rear diff drain or not. It has not been mentioned.
However, they did call this morning to say they wanted to put teflon tape around the plug. I said no, and to escalate to the service manager. We all know that's a BS fix, if it is indeed from the plug or the area around the plug. And, if it were the plug, the replacement they installed three weeks ago (incl new gasket by the head tech) would have resolved the issue.
So, let's see what they do.
Again... three parts at play here... plug, gasket, diff housing. They have replaced two of three so far.
Click to expand...

But, which plug? Fill or drain??? That will answer what was touched! And teflon tape is not the answer, its just a bandaid, so good for you for tellin' 'em no!

This tells me that the dealership you're using is not doing their job properly. You never use teflon on an oil plug, the threads are not self-sealing, which means it uses a gasket. If a gasket doesn't work, you don't swap it for teflon tape!

This is a very simple issue, I cannot, for the life of me, understand why the dealership has not been able to fiugre it out and fix it! I would not trust them with anything more than maybe replacing a fuse or checking tire pressure!!!
 
We're talking about the rear diff drain plug.
I checked the past service paperwork... only shows standard service inspections... nothing that specifically calls out checking out the diffs (and no charges for diff service). The vehicle is still under warranty and has a two year service contract - I think. All I know is to date, I have not paid for any service. At the 30K (ish) service, I opted to buy and install both air filters myself (engine and cabin).
Other than that, I just drive and enjoy.
 
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If this was my rig, I'd swish under there with a can of brake parts cleaner and spray the area, then dry off with a rag or paper towel.

Then, I'd put a white piece of poster board under it and watch.

After a couple of days, I'd shimmy under there with a bright flashlight and inspect.

A couple of drips is not going to take down the diff, but it should not be doing that and I'd want it corrected as well.

Edit: the teflon tape thing is prob coming from the SA not the tech.
 
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twoburgers said:
We're talking about the rear diff drain plug.
I checked the past service paperwork... only shows standard service inspections... nothing that specifically calls out checking out the diffs (and no charges for diff service). The vehicle is still under warranty and has a two year service contract - I think. All I know is to date, I have not paid for any service. At the 30K (ish) service, I opted to buy and install both air filters myself (engine and cabin).
Other than that, I just drive and enjoy.
Click to expand...

Based on that, then they should have never touched the drain plug up until the point they replaced it to try and stop the leak. If they did, you'd never be able to show they did anyway. Hope they get you straightened out without too much more trouble.
 
I received a call from the local dealership (McGeorge Toyota) regarding my refusal to have teflon tape be used to remediate the oil leak at the rear diff. The service manager (Don) was pleasant and understanding. The takeaway was that their fix would not be permanent in such as the next rear diff service would require a process that is not part of the service protocol (adding teflon tape is not called out as part of the normal service). Don explained his hands were tied, and provided me the Toyota complaint number 800 331 4331.
I called and provided my info, the VIN and the details, was provided a case number and was told a customer relations manager would follow up in two business days. Fair enough.
I will add that I do not feel it is very customer centric for Toyota service standards to push back on what appears (by the service department) to be a legitimate issue due to cost of the part involved. Yes, teflon tape is less expensive than a new rear diff/axel, however; addressing the leak with a permanent fix is the right thing to do - especially given this vehicle is under warranty.
I will follow up when I hear back from Toyota. In the mean time, the leak is slow enough that the rear diff should have enough lube.
 
Did you check to see if the fill plug is loose? Looks to me like it may be dripping from up higher since the oil is around the protective ring too. The oil will migrate down the diff housing to the lowest point and drip from there.......If it was dripping from the drain it would be on the bolt head.

My guess- they checked the fluid level at 30k (that in itself would be a shocker...) and didn't tighten the fill plug correctly.

That's what I think.:fishing:
 
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What we need here is another photo of the whole back end of the diff. That will show us where the leak is originating from, as well as how much oil is dispersing around the back side.

Looking at the two photos, that is a lot of oil to be dripping onto the ground, and if you're driving this up to speed, the heat from the gears will build up pressure, which will allow even more oil to be pushed past wherever its leaking from.

I've had leaky diffs before, but never that bad. This looks like a leak I'd be checking and refilling at least once a week!

Again, after getting photos, grab yourself a can of brake clean, shoot the whole area down where it looks oily, wipe it down with a rag or paper towels, then let it sit, this time though, let it sit for about an hour, as that's a good leak (we called that a class 3 leak in the army!) and will show you where its coming from immediately!

Or, you can just let it go, then when the rear diff runs out of fluid and it seizes up or rips a bunch of teeth off the ring gear from expansion, you can just have it towed right to the dealership and have them give you a rental car while they replace everything. At this point, getting flack from the dealership and the customer care line with photos like that, I change my initial response and say that they can owe you a new axle!

Oh yeah, get a photo of the front of the diff too, I wanna see if maybe its leaking out of the front seal of the third member. Oil could be running back from air movement when you drive. You'd be surprised how many leaks up front will look like its coming from further back!
 
After the initial visit to the dealer, they confirmed the issue centered around the drain plug. Pic confirms. Upon replacing the plug and gasket/crush washer, they did clean the rear diff. It got oily again as noticed after I saw more oil drips in the drive. No second pics.
Anyway, I hope Toyota will do the right thing - especially since I have had to escalate the issue.

Also, appreciate all the feedback/responses - this is a fine forum.


Re the weld, that was the initial thought by the dealer.

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twoburgers said:
After the initial visit to the dealer, they confirmed the issue centered around the drain plug. Pic confirms. Upon replacing the plug and gasket/crush washer, they did clean the rear diff. It got oily again as noticed after I saw more oil drips in the drive. No second pics.
Anyway, I hope Toyota will do the right thing - especially since I have had to escalate the issue.

Also, appreciate all the feedback/responses - this is a fine forum.

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Click to expand...

Looks like a bad weld to me. That gap should not be there.
 
So... I heard from the service manager at McGeorge. They would like for me to bring the truck in again (4th visit) so they can add a dye to the rear gear diff to see if the lube is leaking at a weld or via the threads. Note that they are the only people that have touched the truck. Did someone mis-thread the drain plug?
Of course, I wanted to walk the repair forward... if a weld issue they would replace the rear diff/axel housing, and if leaking past the threads, they would re-thread (heli coil?). I agreed to take the truck in to add the dye; however, the thread fix would not be original equipment, and therefore not warranted.
Thoughts on what I should do???
Thanks,
Chris

Just an additional thought... when the dealer replaced the original plug/washer, given it was leaking, would they have not inspected the threads? I would presume yes; therefore, the only likely deduction is that it is indeed the weld. Given this, I wonder why Toyota is making them and therefore me go through the dye process? Hope I'll go away? Hope I'll allow a non-OEM fix? I hate to say it, but it's beginning to smell like I'll need to involve the attorney. Argh!
 
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I'm not sure about the laws in your state but I would look at the state DMV
or Lemon law if they can't get it right.It sounds like they don't want to spend $$$ on the repair.Why is beyond me ?
It's Really silly and I'm sure your patience is starting to get low.
I hope you can document your 4 visits because you will need proof that it has been in the shop for same repair that many times.I wish you luck and hope they just fix it right the 5th time!!!!!
 
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