2013 LTD Rear Differential Leak at drain plug

[shahsmerdis]

So... I heard from the service manager at McGeorge. They would like for me to bring the truck in again (4th visit) so they can add a dye to the rear gear diff to see if the lube is leaking at a weld or via the threads. Note that they are the only people that have touched the truck. Did someone mis-thread the drain plug?
Of course, I wanted to walk the repair forward... if a weld issue they would replace the rear diff/axel housing, and if leaking past the threads, they would re-thread (help coil?). I agreed to take the truck in to add the dye; however, the thread fix would not be original equipment, and therefore not warranted.
Thoughts on what I should do???
Thanks,
Chris

OBut you never brought it.to any other dealer or never requested service on it so it's not your fault. Say you want pics or to look at the dye to see where it's.coming from on the lift. No matter what don't cave in its their fault . if you are concerned maybe can ask for extra warranty on the job?

 

[05Rrunner]

So... I heard from the service manager at McGeorge. They would like for me to bring the truck in again (4th visit) so they can add a dye to the rear gear diff to see if the lube is leaking at a weld or via the threads. Note that they are the only people that have touched the truck. Did someone mis-thread the drain plug?
Of course, I wanted to walk the repair forward... if a weld issue they would replace the rear diff/axel housing, and if leaking past the threads, they would re-thread (heli coil?). I agreed to take the truck in to add the dye; however, the thread fix would not be original equipment, and therefore not warranted.
Thoughts on what I should do???
Thanks,
Chris

Just an additional thought... when the dealer replaced the original plug/washer, given it was leaking, would they have not inspected the threads? I would presume yes; therefore, the only likely deduction is that it is indeed the weld. Given this, I wonder why Toyota is making them and therefore me go through the dye process? Hope I'll go away? Hope I'll allow a non-OEM fix? I hate to say it, but it's beginning to smell like I'll need to involve the attorney. Argh!

Hi ,
Since they were the only ones to touch the truck. I would allow them to use the dye and Teflon tape if necessary to isolate the leak exactly. Right now they're putting it on you like they know it's just Teflon tape and that'll fix it but you don't want that cheap fix . If they do the Teflon tape and it still leaks you're in a great position if it fixes the leak you're in a great position because they did something to the threads to cause it to need Teflon tape which is not like the factory. So I think the first thing you need to do is let them fix the leak then see exactly what it took to fix the leak and go from there.
Also note : do not let the dealer or Toyota tell you that any leak is acceptable ! there are emissions and waste oil issues, no cars are allowed to leak oil on the ground anymore .

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Okay, that last photo shows a HUGE gap between the bung and the housing! That is definitely not right, it should be welded properly, and I would be willing to bet it wasn't. This is what it should look like:

Just took that photo of mine, notice how there's no spacing around the edge of the bung.

Welding isn't hard, and should only take a couple of minutes, it would also make it quite a bit stronger than what it is now. I would be afraid of touching that bung on a rock and having the whole thing pull right out of the housing!

I'm not a fan of replacing parts that really don't need to be replaced. there's nothing wrong with the axle itself, and I wouldn't trust that dealership to replace a complete axle, swapping over all the parts, installing new seals, and making it all work properly.

 

[twoburgers]

Great info... I really appreciate it.
There are so many paths to address this issue... replace, and several variants of repair. At this point, and given this is a newish vehicle and warranty issue, IMO Toyota should replace. The position I have chosen to take is no non factory repairs will be allowed. I doubt the warranty coverage mentions non-OEM repairs if the parts are available. I have not confirmed this, but it seems reasonable. I'm expecting a fight, and I'm ready and have the time.
And who knows, maybe the dye will show it is the weld... and I'll get a proper warranty repair.

Okay, that last photo shows a HUGE gap between the bung and the housing! That is definitely not right, it should be welded properly, and I would be willing to bet it wasn't. This is what it should look like:

Just took that photo of mine, notice how there's no spacing around the edge of the bung.

Welding isn't hard, and should only take a couple of minutes, it would also make it quite a bit stronger than what it is now. I would be afraid of touching that bung on a rock and having the whole thing pull right out of the housing!

I'm not a fan of replacing parts that really don't need to be replaced. there's nothing wrong with the axle itself, and I wouldn't trust that dealership to replace a complete axle, swapping over all the parts, installing new seals, and making it all work properly.

 

[twoburgers]

McGeorge Toyota did non OEM fix for warranty issue!!!

Here we go...
It appears by the photo that when I took the truck in so the dealer could add a dye to the gear lube, they installed a new plug and re-threaded the differential. Note that I explicitly told the service manager no non-OEM parts or processes would be permitted. And of course, they did not provide me a work ticket. Sneaky bastards. Note that I am calling out McGeorge Toyota in Richmond, Virginia.
I would like to hear back from those that can confirm given the pic that they added a re-thread.
Crazy!!!
Note that the diff is no longer leaking, but it was a non OEM repair, so I have no other action but to escalate with Toyota. I am very disappointed.

~original[/IMG]

adding a post customer service call note...
the original case was closed - apparently adding dye will solve the leaking differential???

I have Toyota service open another case to inquire why no service ticket was issues, what exactly was done, and what parts were used, and if the service manager (Toyota rep) was aware of what was being done.

For obvious reasons, I must now question everything the dealer does (or doesn't do) to the truck. VERY disappointed.

Now I wait for up to 48 hours for the dealer to make up a great story. Grrrrr.

Chris in Richmond.

 

[shahsmerdis]

Strange,

If no one opened up the drain plug, and it leaked, isn't this a factory issue, and toyota would cover the cost? This would have been easy money for the dealership to charge toyota and get you on your way. Why did they need to be so sneaky about it. if its a factory fault, this is easy money for dealership... yes its at cost work, but some work is better than no work.

Ah man, I wish you had him sign on the paper no non-oem parts and both sign.

I'm sure you will get it solved... just they made it painful for no reason... My guess is 1 year till it gets done. Try to relax, I know its annoying ,but enjoy the car, it will get resolved.

Is the drain plug non serviceable now?

 

[Antman]

Hate to play devil's advocate, but...


If it's not leaking now, and they can prove to you that the plug can be removed and reinstalled without leaks (for future service) I would call this "case closed".
No way in hell I would want them to replace the entire axle and swap over all the suspension, brakes, etc. Too many opportunities for screw ups- you could be fighting issues forever.

Get some sort of written warranty for the repair and move on.
That's just my .02 - Good Luck!

 

[twoburgers]

Is the drain plug non serviceable now?

That's a great question. On the surface, sure it is. How long will it last... a better question. Most importantly, is this how the differential was built and what I paid for? Definitely not.

All opinions appreciated, but just cleaning up after getting poked in the rear (as it was) is not how I play.

I live by principles, and the actions that were taken by the dealer show they operate without any (in this case at least).

I am beginning to wonder if they somehow messed up the original threads during normal service and are just trying to cover their a$$. We'll never know, but I have lots of time and patience.

 

[BLACK-FL4RUNNER]

It's just a drain plug, stop being a whiny little :sobbing:


eace:

 

[twoburgers]

Too many opportunities for screw ups- you could be fighting issues forever.
Get some sort of written warranty for the repair and move on.

Indeed, this mess has made me loose confidence in the dealer, and now the modification they made (with me insisting they not do it) to the diff is causing me to loose confidence in the rear diff. Note I have had a re-coil insert fail in a Husqvarna motorcycle before.

Is this a huge issue with the truck, of course it isn't. However, I paid a premium for Toyota quality, and now the rear diff service functionality has been impacted (diminished IMO and experience). All under warranty and at the hands of the dealer, nonetheless.

Most importantly, I looked straight into the eyes of the service manager and told him I did not want any non-standard processes or non OEM parts used. They have proven themselves (McGeorge Toyota) to be dishonest.

 

[shahsmerdis]

Here we go...
It appears by the photo that when I took the truck in so the dealer could add a dye to the gear lube, they installed a new plug and re-threaded the differential. Note that I explicitly told the service manager no non-OEM parts or processes would be permitted. And of course, they did not provide me a work ticket. Sneaky bastards. Note that I am calling out McGeorge Toyota in Richmond, Virginia.
I would like to hear back from those that can confirm given the pic that they added a re-thread.
Crazy!!!
Note that the diff is no longer leaving, but it was a non OEM repair, so I have no other action but to escalate with Toyota. I am very disappointed.

~original[/IMG]

adding a post customer service call note...
the original case was closed - apparently adding dye will solve the leaking differential???

I have Toyota service open another case to inquire why no service ticket was issues, what exactly was done, and what parts were used, and if the service manager (Toyota rep) was aware of what was being done.

For obvious reasons, I must now question everything the dealer does (or doesn't do) to the truck. VERY disappointed.

Now I wait for up to 48 hours for the dealer to make up a great story. Grrrrr.

Chris in Richmond.

Indeed, this mess has made me loose confidence in the dealer, and now the modification they made (with me insisting they not do it) to the diff is causing me to loose confidence in the rear diff. Note I have had a re-coil insert fail in a Husqvarna motorcycle before.

Is this a huge issue with the truck, of course it isn't. However, I paid a premium for Toyota quality, and now the rear diff service functionality has been impacted (diminished IMO and experience). All under warranty and at the hands of the dealer, nonetheless.

Most importantly, I looked straight into the eyes of the service manager and told him I did not want any non-standard processes or non OEM parts used. They have proven themselves (McGeorge Toyota) to be dishonest.

would you settle for free life time rear diff services? or up to 200k or something like that? or at cost?(Price of fluids) or extended warranty if it ever leaks?

 

[96r50]

Here we go...
It appears by the photo that when I took the truck in so the dealer could add a dye to the gear lube, they installed a new plug and re-threaded the differential.

...

I would like to hear back from those that can confirm given the pic that they added a re-thread.

Did they tell you that they rethreaded the differential housing or are you surmising that from looking at the plug? From the one photo you've posted I'd say that looks like a new Toyota differential plug, not an upsized aftermarket one installed in a newly re-threaded hole. Toyota only has the one size of plug for the rear axles on their trucks so it's not like they grabbed a bigger one from a Tundra and jammed it in there.

No one is going to be able to tell you whether they added a rethread without you taking out that plug and checking the differential threads for yourself. Unless they told you it was rethreaded or you check for yourself all we're doing here is taking wild ass guesses at what may have happened.

 

[twoburgers]

To be open and honest, I just heard from the dealer, and they are saying what I am seeing is the crush washer, not an insert. So, I'm going to wait a week and see if it continues to dribble oil.
So, I am retracting that the dealer being dishonest with regard to the thread insert. However, the leak in general has not been handled properly, and I remain concerned the leak will be resolved to the letter of the warranty.
Chris

 

[renau001]

Based on my perspective and experience, I'll offer my opinion, but feel free to take it or leave it.

I would like to say that I can empathize with you as I had a different but similar situation several years back. I took a car in (granted not a newer car) to a place for an oil change for the first time. When they took the drain plug out the threads were completely stripped out with the bolt. Thought I was going to have to get a new pan, but luckily they were able to re-thread and put in a different plug and I never had a problem with it for a few more oil changes before we sold that car. They said the prior place must have over-torqued. But I initially did not believe them and thought the guy had gotten backwards and went the wrong way on the plug at first when he was taking it out, and I was pretty hot and did not trust anything they would have said. Later on though, I had reason to change my mind about the place and ended up using them for a few things with good interactions, and then kinda wondered if they really were being honest during that first interaction. I say that not because I think you necessarily have a unfounded distrust for your dealer, but just to realize that emotions can affect judgment/discernment.

I'm restating a few things here just to make sure I understood you correctly. So basically you had a rear diff leak, seemingly from the drain plug. Before it first occurred, the dealership had had no reason to touch that plug and you have no record that they did. Dealerships tend to lean toward doing less than what they said, not more. They then replaced the drain plug and washer to fix it and it still leaked. So pretty quickly, it seems like you may had made up your mind that the only proper solution is replacing the diff housing. First though, it's definitely plausible that the new plug and/or washer was no good or maybe not torqued properly, allowing the leak to remain. I personally would want to have replaced that drain plug/washer one more time ensuring it was torqued properly before anything else. Unfortunately, new parts aren't always what we would like them to be. Since the first replacement, they offered to put teflon tape on the plug (which I agree shouldn't help on these type of threads) and put dye in the fluid to identify the exact location. And when you took it in for the dye add, you believe they re-tapped the threads and put in a different drain plug? Is this just based on the fact that it's no longer leaking? I looked at mine and the only difference I can see is that it's silver and not painted black, so it just looks new. I think it's just as likely they installed a new plug or washer when they put in the dye, or just removing it and putting it back in could have sealed it up if they drained the fluid to put in new dyed fluid. As others have said I think, you'll have to get under there and drain he fluid and look yourself to prove anything.

I work in an industry that has a pretty thorough reporting system for equipment failures. About 5 years ago, equipment failures in this country most often occurred (25% and rising) due to inflicted maintenance, i.e. poor maintenance practices or human errors. So I highly recommend you do not have your diff housing/axle replaced if there's another solution. Just too much potential for worse problems there. I also had to have a piston ring job done (under a class-action extended warranty) on a 2009 Accord) due to oil blow-by fouling spark plugs. It was all done for free in a couple days by their best guy, but the thing just never drove quite the same and continued to throw engine codes every once in a while. I traded it in for the 4Runner that I have now.

If the leak has stopped, and you find out or prove that they did do something they shouldn't have like re-tapping threads, I personally would just try to leverage it to get some kind of extended warranty on the diff housing before having it replaced.

Most of all, just hope it gets worked out for you. Good luck! (sorry, crazy long post)

 

[twoburgers]

So, picking up this thread after a week. After having the dye added to the rear diff, the oil leak has mysteriously gone away. Praise Allah for the spring time miracle (of course, I'm kidding and getting in a dig to the oh so quiet Muslims out there). Either the leak fixed itself (ha ha), the dealer used a sealant, or sourced a slightly upsized plug.
My issue is that there is a very high likelihood the leak will reoccur.
I did place a call to Toyota Executive Response, and now have them involved. Note that I am not looking for anything "free", I just want the damn truck fixed as it was delivered vs some BS repair.
One question I have posed to TER is what color is the replacement OEM plug, as the original was a flat black (while the replacement appeared to be plated and shiny).
Best guess is now that I'll have to pay someone to drain the rear diff and see if the plug had a sealant on the threads.

 

[philsey]

Best guess is now that I'll have to pay someone to drain the rear diff and see if the plug had a sealant on the threads.

I'd sure suggest that that "someone" be the same dealer. You let anyone else near it and you give them an excuse to point a finger elsewhere.

As for the plug, get the p/n and go to another dealer and buy one.

 

[catrains]

my guess is they did use a thread sealant . the plug most likely does not set into the threaded housing properly , so the washer will not provide a good seal.

good to have paper work that they altered the OEM design.

 

[K9trainer]

Why don't you just ask them " How did you fix the leak? Did you re thread the hole? Did you install an over size plug?"
And get in writing

 

[BLACK-FL4RUNNER]

Or you could just accept the fact that it's been fixed and move on with your life...

 

[twoburgers]

Why don't you just ask them " How did you fix the leak? Did you re thread the hole? Did you install an over size plug?"
And get in writing

Great question. I asked how the leak could stop if they only added the dye and I was told "we didn't touch the drain plug". Per what was entered into the system, they only added a dye to the rear diff lube. Note I was not provided paperwork, not was anything entered into their system until I lodged a complaint. Hmmm.

Per another poster, why not be happy the leak has stopped and just walk away dumb and happy? Because I know at some point down the road it will begin leaking again, and now is the time to get it addressed correctly and fully under warranty.