2015 TEP brakes really suck
- Thread starter 555R
- Start date
Binoshnoop
New member
+1
Exactly!
The brakes on the T4R are not great (but didn't expect for great brakes)
They still are brakes and do the job when driving the truck properly.
Can you find better brakes on an evo, M3, 911, etc... Of course! but again,it's an irrelevant comparison
If OP almost rear ends cars, it's not the brakes that need to be changed but his driving habits/skills.
4Rager
New member
Even though everyone seems to be taking this opportunity to shit on the guy, I know exactly what you mean. The pedal feel on the T4R brakes is very spongy and the modulation is not all that responsive. I have accidentally activated the ABS a more than once when the light turns yellow at a 45mph stoplight or coming upon a stop sign obscured by trees or something, because the initial bite doesn't do much. But to jump on the bandwgon as others have so elegantly put it, of course you can coast more, etc. etc. and clearly you should have bought a different vehicle. Using a 4Runner as a daily driver the bottom line is sometimes you will be in a hurry and you can't drive around like a grandma, and in those situations I agree the brakes are not that impressive.
Jernik
New member
I can see where the OP is coming from... while I've never almost rear ended anyone, I have been further out into an intersection than I wanted to be because I switched vehicles and "forgot" how long it took to stop the heavier load. But not with the 4Runner. At least not yet.
I'm not sure pads only (or even pads/rotors/calipers) will help the 4Runner brake feel. To me, it seems like the spongy feel is designed in the system (perhaps master cylinder or abs computer) rather than a symptom of the pads/calipers/rotors. The "air leak" sound, the very soft feel upon normal application, the sudden grab when you quickly jab the pedal. I think the pads are fine, it's the inconsistent pedal feel that gets people into trouble (my opinion), and I'm not sure there's a way to fix that for those who like a firm, consistent pedal feel.
I'm not sure pads only (or even pads/rotors/calipers) will help the 4Runner brake feel. To me, it seems like the spongy feel is designed in the system (perhaps master cylinder or abs computer) rather than a symptom of the pads/calipers/rotors. The "air leak" sound, the very soft feel upon normal application, the sudden grab when you quickly jab the pedal. I think the pads are fine, it's the inconsistent pedal feel that gets people into trouble (my opinion), and I'm not sure there's a way to fix that for those who like a firm, consistent pedal feel.
Lone Star 4Runner
New member
Exactly. All these people that think the 5th gen 4runner has great brakes must not have ever driven anything that even has decent brakes, much less good ones. That's how bad the brake feel is on these vehicles. The worst of any modern vehicle I have ever driven.
Op has it right, top of the pedal does nothing, middle of the pedal does nothing and then all the sudden they slam on with full force. The engagement and feel is pathetic.
I have no issue with stopping power once they actually "engage", it stops well enough. Just the feel and engagement is awful, and honestly I can't believe Toyota let this pass.
If this was my dd I would have already swapped out pads, lines, booster and master cylinder. I would do everything I could to try to make them better.
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1engineer
Moderator
I have driven 140K or so now in a 5th gen daily driver and I have absolutely no issues with the brakes. Why? I don't drive anything else so to me the brakes are great. You talk about feel, initial bite, etc like that's important. What is important to me is when I apply the brakes the vehicle slows down. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm sure there are vehicles out there that have better "feel" but hey, you can only drive one vehicle at a time right? As far as modding the brakes for better performance? Why not just buy a vehicle with brakes you like. It is a 4700 lb top heavy slow ass SUV that costs $$$$$ less than premium SUV's. The brakes are fine. In a panic stop they are fine and comparable as referenced in the above data.
CoolMax
New member
Yes.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/171234-squishy-brake-pedal.html
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/120910-2012-4runner-spongy-brakes.html
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/102364-brake-pedal-noise-3.html
I think [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] replied to each of those threads....:typing:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/171234-squishy-brake-pedal.html
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/120910-2012-4runner-spongy-brakes.html
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/102364-brake-pedal-noise-3.html
I think [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] replied to each of those threads....:typing:
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I am totally with you on this. The brakes are fine, they stop the truck but more than once they have made me look like an idiot. My perception is the panic braking is too sensitive so if I have to stop quicker than I normally would if there happens to be a TRD Pro in the middle of the road, I step on the brakes harder than usual but boy they practically go to lockup. Scares the shit out of me and makes me stop way shorter than I planned on stopping. My two cents...
Lone Star 4Runner
New member
You have completely proved my point. I simply said that the only people that would think the 4runner has good brake feel are people that don't drive anything else.
Well I do drive other vehicles and I think the 4runner brake feel and engagement is awful.
I never stated that the brakes don't stop the vehicle well, they perform comparably for this class of vehicles.
It is important IMO. To brake smoothly, comfortably and safely you need brakes that have a consistent linear engagement and feel that preferably starts at the top of pedal.
Seems to me you just prefer a driving "appliance" that as long it gets you from A to B and when you push the brake pedal it stops and push the gas pedal it goes you are pleased. It's odd, seeing that you are engineer I would think you would care more about this sort of stuff and wonder why they didn't design this or that better.
I don't know why you use the fact that it is a top heavy "4700 lb" suv as an excuse for bad brake feel and engagement. I have two other SUVs that weigh about 1000 pounds more than the 4runner, one of which is even more top heavy as well, and they do not have this issue.
I like the brakes on all my other vehicles. I rarely drive my 4runner, I bought it for my daughter to drive. But every time I do drive it I get pissed at how crappy the brakes feel.
Toyota should never have let this brake system pass. I own two Tacomas, a Lexus and have owned other Toyota/Lexus vehicles in the past and none have ever had this bad brake feel.
3wbdriver
New member
3 of the 4 biggest complaints in this thread have come from Trail PREMIUM owners. Is it possible the PREMIUM has a different braking system than my little old podunk base Trail, or even the - GASP - TRD Pro? :hiding:
From personal experience I have driven precisely 5 vehicles over the last 20 years that were equipped with ABS (not counting my mom's 87 Corvette). And even while trying mightily in the Corvette I have never been able to make the ABS engage in ANY of them. Including some very close panic stops over those years.
One thing I have noticed since ABS became standard equipment is people seem to think it allows them to reduce the following distance we were all taught to maintain from the car in front of us, because hey, ABS! Whatever happened to the 2 second rule? Another thing I've noticed is NOBODY gets ticketed for tailgating anymore. Until after they've rear ended somebody else anyway. Has any body else noticed this trend?
Oh yeah. The brakes on my sub 600hp, old poke along Trail Nothing Special are fine. :becky:
From personal experience I have driven precisely 5 vehicles over the last 20 years that were equipped with ABS (not counting my mom's 87 Corvette). And even while trying mightily in the Corvette I have never been able to make the ABS engage in ANY of them. Including some very close panic stops over those years.
One thing I have noticed since ABS became standard equipment is people seem to think it allows them to reduce the following distance we were all taught to maintain from the car in front of us, because hey, ABS! Whatever happened to the 2 second rule? Another thing I've noticed is NOBODY gets ticketed for tailgating anymore. Until after they've rear ended somebody else anyway. Has any body else noticed this trend?
Oh yeah. The brakes on my sub 600hp, old poke along Trail Nothing Special are fine. :becky:
Antman
Elite Member
No 2 people will agree on this- it's entirely subjective.
Fact is the brakes work incredibly well for a vehicle this heavy- this thing will stop NOW if it is asked to.
I never have an issue stopping smoothly. I do think the initial bite needs some work- brake creep at stoplights is a real concern for me, especially with the A/C on. The linear feel is pretty much meh too.
I'm sure ATRAC /offroadability has something to do with the brake feel and I feel it's a fair tradeoff.
Plus, the damn pads/rotors last for-ev-er. I'm past 82k and have very little doubt that I will go past 100k on these original brakes. No pulsing, no shaking. I tow every week too, all year long.
THAT is amazing.
Fact is the brakes work incredibly well for a vehicle this heavy- this thing will stop NOW if it is asked to.
I never have an issue stopping smoothly. I do think the initial bite needs some work- brake creep at stoplights is a real concern for me, especially with the A/C on. The linear feel is pretty much meh too.
I'm sure ATRAC /offroadability has something to do with the brake feel and I feel it's a fair tradeoff.
Plus, the damn pads/rotors last for-ev-er. I'm past 82k and have very little doubt that I will go past 100k on these original brakes. No pulsing, no shaking. I tow every week too, all year long.
THAT is amazing.
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Ever driven a panther platform Ford? Talk about lack of pedal feel....
4Rager
New member
I don't deny that the brakes work very when called upon. The two times I've activated the ABS I would have got a bloody nose from smashing my face on the steering wheel if the seat belt didn't lock up simultaneously. But as mentioned brakes are a touchy and subjective subject. That being said if they made the brake system more conducive to aggressive driving that could result in more rotor and pad replacements during the warranty period which would cost Toyota $. They actually replaced my rotors at pads at ~20k because the rotors were warped.
Installing a big brake kit can certainly reduce fade and decrease stopping distances in certain situations, but the increased rotor weight (from a larger diameter) and different calipers that are not designed to work with the the factory ABS system can actually be a detriment in a panic stop situation. As many have said you can't expect the 4Runner to perform like a sports car or at least a much lighter vehicle, but the T4R brakes are somewhat disappointing IN MY OPINION :bash:
Installing a big brake kit can certainly reduce fade and decrease stopping distances in certain situations, but the increased rotor weight (from a larger diameter) and different calipers that are not designed to work with the the factory ABS system can actually be a detriment in a panic stop situation. As many have said you can't expect the 4Runner to perform like a sports car or at least a much lighter vehicle, but the T4R brakes are somewhat disappointing IN MY OPINION :bash:
1engineer
Moderator
What is it? It is a vehicle that will get you from point A to point B through any weather. It also has the added bonus of being one of the most rugged vehicles out there off road. It is an appliance in every sense of the word. I do not love my 4Runner. I don't whisper words to it or sing it to sleep. I won't send it to college nor will I give it special weekends. I won't cheer for it if it gets me home. It is a machine. An appliance.
When I have to move my wife's vehicle her brakes are totally different. Not better, not worse. When I drive my son's new Subaru the brakes are totally different from both of the others. My daughter's new Rav4 is also different.
Proper brake "feel" is just like seat comfort or whether you like blondes or brunettes. It is totally subjective.
I care that it stops every time in a repeatable fashion. I also care that it stops quickly if I apply the brakes quickly. What more is there?
Lone Star 4Runner
New member
According to you there is nothing more and I'm glad you are pleased with the brake feel.
But me, I demand a little more out of my vehicles and those who designed them.
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Then make your position known by where you spend your money.
Borebrotherbore
New member
Lol you own a Merc and a Land Rover. You do not expect quality out of the cars you buy. No need to lie to us to be cool.
