DI cars are plagued with issues for maybe a few mpg extra.
And why do we need more gears? The torque curve's are already optimized for the 5 gears we have.
2021 4Runner has some serious sound insulation!
- Thread starter 2021nightshade4x4
- Start date
DI cars are plagued with issues for maybe a few mpg extra.
And why do we need more gears? The torque curve's are already optimized for the 5 gears we have.
RunTheJoules
New member
That's also the same reason the "industry" is WAY behind in reliability.
m0ar gears doesn't always equal better, regardless of what MotorTrend tries to sell you.
Charles Bronson
Member
You're stuck in stone ages, my friend. Sure, direct injection had it's teething issues when it came to the market 15 years ago. Direction injection gives around 10-15% better mpgs and power. The biggest issue with direct injection was carbon buildup on the intake valves which then would require a $500 servicing every 60-100K miles. With the exception of the 4Runner, all Toyota products are direct injection.
As for the 5 speed auto, it is about a archaic as you can get these days. I'm not aware of any new car/truck sold in the last 5 years using a 5 speed auto. Even 6 speeds are considered quite dated. This truck desperately needs more gear ratios to make use of it's powerband which isn't not exactly stellar for a truck, IMO. It's powerband is from 3,500-5,500rpms. The 4Runner would get significantly better mpgs, it would be much quicker from a stop or roll, and would be much better suited to towing with the extra gears and MUCH needed torque multiplication of a 8+ speed auto.
With DI and an 8 speed auto, which Toyota has had available since 2008, and some much needed convenience comforts that have been standard on most every Toyota product in the last 5 to 10 years, and the 5th gen 4Runner would be a class leading body on frame SUV. Toyota is just too damn conservative for their own good. They know how to squeeze blood out of a turnip, that is for sure.
RunTheJoules
New member
If the 4Runner doesn't suit you, buy something else. It's a pretty simple solution to your "problems".
Personally, I hope they continue to keep it simple and "archaic" so that more of you buy Highlanders and RAV4s like you should've to begin with.
Charles Bronson
Member
It actually has suited us quite well for the last 2 years and my wife (her truck) and myself absolutely love it.
I'm just not a 4Runner fanboy that I can't point out it's obvious flaws. MPGs, acceleration, and amenities tend to be the biggest complaints with the 4Runner and ALL could have been easily addressed by Toyota using decade-old, tried and true parts sourced from it's own parts bins including:
1) 8 speed automatics used in the Toyota/Lexus 4WD models since 2016
2) Direct injection used by Toyota since at least 2008 (14 years ago)
3) Auto climate control on all models (costs maybe $5, auto climate is standard on most every Toyota now)
4) Auto on headlights ($5?, standard on most every Toyota now)
5) Single tap turn signals for 3 flashes ($5?, standard on most every Toyota now)
I love the 4Runner's simplicity, but in 2022, direct injection and 8+ speed is pretty basic stuff that's been used in most Toyota vehicles for a decade or more.
The $38,300 we paid for our new (at the time) 2020 ORP with moonroof was acceptable for what we got for the money. To pay more than $40K for a 4Runner seems bonkers considering its mid 2005-2010 era equipment and a chassis/architecture that hasn't changed at all in over 12 years.
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there is probably something wrong with that range rover
the 4runner has almost no insulation in the doors or any other part of the vehicle aside from some addition of jute insulation over the years
maybe you've got some placebo affect going for you. a new 4runner isn't quiet by modern car standards. it's a vehicle that isn't really competitive by any new car standard actually
RunTheJoules
New member
The 4Runner, particularly this generation, has been around long enough by now for everyone to know what it is, and what it does and doesn't have. So it doesn't really make sense to me to spend $40K on one, just to go online and complain about things you WISH it had. It helps literally no one.
That 3-flash turn signal is the dumbest shit I've ever seen on vehicles, and VERY happy that it isn't on the 4Runner. Auto climate and headlights? Who cares. My 20 had neither and didn't make me like it any less. Are you really that lazy?
RobS10
Member
LOL! 1st World problems, right?
People are on the one hand spoiled by the choices that we do have. My brother has a 2020 MDX and thinks I'm nuts to have chosen a 4Runner instead of a MDX or Highlander, since most of my driving is on pavement (which is why I opted for KDSS). However, even if his rig makes it the 17 miles of Forest Service roads out to our remote cabin, I know there are logging/access roads in the area he won't dare take his fancy Acura on. I feel like a 4Runner is a vehicle where I have more choices of what road to take.
We bought a 2022 because it has the most updated safety features (that I can turn off if I feel I'm being Nannied too much), has more power than our 1999 4Runner, and is smooth and quiet. It's a little bouncy and may upgrade to Bilsteins in time, but I don't miss any other bells and whistles besides the MTM camera and Remote Start, but I'm getting over it. Do I wish it had a little more HP with better mileage? Sure, but I would be giving up the 4Runners toughness off road, the roll down back window, and that cool front end scowl.
Jetboy
New member
The 4Runner desperately needs a better drive train. I'm a big 4R fan. But it's out of date under the hood. The transmission especially is really hard to accept. It has been a 6 speed running only 5 of the gears since 2002. 20 years! And we still can't even use the 6th gear. And that matters. It would mean 4.56 diffs give good highway performance and much better trail performance. The V6 is wildly under powered for the mpg it gets. Yeah, it's reliable. And that matters. But toyota has had a turbo v6 for 5 years now that gets about 25% better mpg and has over 100hp more. Toyota could put that in the 4R. Who wouldn't want 400hp and 25mpg? Who wouldn't want the 10 speed toyota's been sitting on for 10 years? It has a 4.7:1 first gear. A750 is 3.5:1. If we had just the 10AT and current engine, you could run 4.56 diffs and have better highway performance than we have now AND your first gear ratio would be the equivalent of having 6.1:1 diff ratios with the current transmission. That would literally be a lower crawl ratio than putting a 4:1 transfer case in the current 4Runner. Add to that the fact that modern turbos have far more off idle torque and the 4Runner would perform so much better on the trail, the highway, and everywhere in between.
It's time for an update. I'm fine with the platform generally. I like the interior. I like the design. I think the chassis is still solid. It just needs an update to the drivetrain. Badly.
It's time for an update. I'm fine with the platform generally. I like the interior. I like the design. I think the chassis is still solid. It just needs an update to the drivetrain. Badly.
RunTheJoules
New member
Personally, the ONLY thing I'd want them to even touch/update is the power/drivetrain for more HP, TQ, and MPGs. But if it's at the cost of long-term durability, no thanks. I'm completely happy with mine exactly as it is, and gonna try my best to get 500k out of it.
And yeah the MTM and remote start is nice... I don't think it's too late to trade in for a Pro! :lol:
RobS10
Member
LOL! When I first started looking, I dismissed the Pro right away because of the extra cost for upgraded shocks and tires, thinking I don't off-road often enough to justify the cost, especially when there was no one in my area selling one for less than $10K over MSRP, and a line of people waiting months to pay that price. We needed something quick, and liked the KDSS option on the ORP for on road handling, and the extra articulation off road for those "twisted" moments. But there really are quite a few things the Pro comes with that I never realized, so much more than Fox shocks and a JBL stereo. But that's all water under the bridge.
On another note, I find it interesting that the complaints of people that the 3rd Gen V6 was under powered led to the V8 option in the 4th Gen, but then they took it all away for the 5th Gen and never looked back. I guess 4Runners were never meant to have decent HP?? What up with that???
Our 4.0L has more HP than those V8s even after the power bump in later years. They just had us on torque. So, it's kind of a toss up at that point to include a V8 option. However, that 4.6L from the GX sure would have been sweet. Which kind of leads to the point of the argument. Toyota had all this and they didn't bother. Most likely because they didn't have to because people were still buying them.
In my opinion, the only thing the 5th gen needs is a transmission with more gears. 278HP/270tq is on par with most V6s offered today. Even the earlier 2011-2013 Grand Cherokees with the 5speed and 3.6l Pentastar V6 were dogs. Once they put the 8spd in in 2014 with the same V6 it was a completely different vehicle. I've owned both, a 2013 and a 2014, and the 2014 was a pleasure to drive with plenty of power compared to the 2013. Same with the newer JL wrangler vs. the previous JK. Both the same powertrain, just one with the 5spd and the new one has the 8spd. Completely different vehicle to drive.
RunTheJoules
New member
Did you know there was a 4-cyl 5th gen at the beginning? Lol. I wonder if any members here have one of those gems.
The Lexus V8 + trans definitely would've been a nice option to have...
BillsRunner
New member
sound deadening?
How did you do the sound deadening. Any suggestions for products or procedure?
How did you do the sound deadening. Any suggestions for products or procedure?
I tend to agree with you, OP. I just picked up a gently used (only 5,000 miles) '21 Nightshade AWD and was also taken with how quiet it was compared to my '03. Actually, the two other '21 Limiteds and a GX460 I tested exhibited the same low NVH. It might not show on a SPL meter, but perception wise, I'd even rate it a bit quieter than our 2018 X6. Maybe there are differences between trim levels in addition to any running changes made year to year.
Jetboy
New member
They are extremely rare in 4cyl and were only offered in 2wd as best I can tell. They would have potential if not for being 2wd only. The 2.7 is really easy and reliable 4cyl to toss a turbo on. And they came factory with 4.56 diff ratio. They were also no doubt very quick having a massive 157hp!
They were pretty sharp looking TBH - probably better styling choices on the super-base model than many of the other trims.
Jetboy
New member
What's not quite as obvious is how much more power that little v8 has at the lower range of the RPM band where most driving is done. It doesn't look like it's a lot more powerful just seeing peak, but it's far more powerful at 2k rpms when you're cruising on the highway.
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Charles Bronson
Member
These are all interesting statements coming from a person that spent $53k+ on a 4runner that has a very pricey Fox suspension, auto climate control, fancier stereo, etc. when the $15k cheaper SR5 likely has more offroad capability than most drivers can throw at it including likely yourself.
You must miss manual windows, sunroofs, and side view mirrors and despise expensive to repair convenience and safety features like air conditioning and ABS.
2021nightshade4x4
New member
I wondered if this archetype still existed: the curmudgeon who buys a base model, brand new vehicle, and takes his 2004 TomTom (replete with 2004 maps), portable Bluetooth speaker, and 3 way lighter socket adapter with him. Because any option is a “money grab” for dealers.
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