5th GEN Hydraulic Power Steering System vs. Electric Power Steering System

[Boyds4Runner]

[MENTION=143932]NYT4R[/MENTION]

Maybe it's been looked at already but with all of the focus on the rack-and-pinion, has the Power Steering Pump been checked out? Maybe at speed it is not creating adequate pressure but while standing still at the shop it works within spec?

Any chance the ball joints on the steering knuckle are too tight or stiff?

Also, I noted adjustments were made to seating position but have adjustments been made to the steering wheel position itself? There is a lever under the column that adjusts for distance and height of the steering wheel.

Sorry if it has already been discussed and I missed it in the back-and-forths.

Hope it gets resolved. I have loved my 4Runners but understand it's not a vehicle for everyone.

 

[Boyds4Runner]

[MENTION=144686]NorthwoodsRunner[/MENTION]

Back on topic in terms of EPS or HPS discussion, could there be a disadvantage to consider when off-roading with an Electronic Power Steering system?

Considering water crossings and such I would think an EPS would have potential to short out and create some crazy results?

Also, while trying to turn in and climb up the boulder face or log would an EPS consider the resistance too much and back-off on it's own in an attempt to protect the steering system?

EPS systems are also the ones where hackers can remote into a vehicle and steer the car themselves, overriding the drivers input.

I may be too old-school when considering the fact that I would like to be in as much control as safely possible in terms of directional and speed input. Being in IT I am also too suspicious of electronic input systems if there is not adequate protection to outside influence (i.e. firewalls, proper authentication, encryption etc).

 

[NorthwoodsRunner]

[MENTION=144686]NorthwoodsRunner[/MENTION]

Back on topic in terms of EPS or HPS discussion, could there be a disadvantage to consider when off-roading with an Electronic Power Steering system?

Considering water crossings and such I would think an EPS would have potential to short out and create some crazy results?

Also, while trying to turn in and climb up the boulder face or log would an EPS consider the resistance too much and back-off on it's own in an attempt to protect the steering system?

EPS systems are also the ones where hackers can remote into a vehicle and steer the car themselves, overriding the drivers input.

I may be too old-school when considering the fact that I would like to be in as much control as safely possible in terms of directional and speed input. Being in IT I am also too suspicious of electronic input systems if there is not adequate protection to outside influence (i.e. firewalls, proper authentication, encryption etc).

You got a lot of valid points. As far as hacking the EPS steering control, it would take considerable EMI (electromagnetic interference) to do that if the vehicle is not equipped with a steering wheel control (i.e., self parking system).

 

[gm350reratliff]

He is referring to the bearing preload on the sector shaft that the pitman arm is attached to. The issue here is that if it was too tight from the factory, the bearing could be damaged anyway and if that was the case, they would need replacement.

This is done (adjustment) with worn boxes or after a rebuild. BUT the box is not the only part of the equation in the end. You could be backing off preload and have not enough tension on the bearings and it will wreak the box. You have other links in the system that is there was a bind, it could be else where.

My issue here with this is...the guy stating the throttle peddle is stiff too. It's electronic, no mechanical linkage whatsoever. THAT statement tells me...it's him not his Runner. Now if he test drove another runner and said it was his Runner, I'd digest this more but I'm not.

There's no pitman arm on these 4runners. In fact the only trucks that use that style of steering these days is only on the Ram and Ford 3/4 tons and up. I would be surprised if the dealer is even adjusting anything.

My petal is stiff to me only because of the awkward seating position that I have to set my seat at in order to access the wheel better to get less strain on my arms. The petal is fine. I compared it to an Explorer the day after Thanksgiving thanks to a family member with one. Both vehicles have the same resistance. But there is a mechanical part in the gas petal....the spring in the assembly. Aside from that, you are right, its electronic.

So let me propose this. Could it be the seating position for all your issues? If the seating puts pressure on you for the peddle (and yes, you are correct there is a spring but you know what I meant) could it also cause your arm issues?

Have you owned trucks before? Are you familiar they do offer a bit different seating pattern due to the body on frame construction compared to cars and the sub framed suvs you are referring to?

I'm wondering if the seating position is more to blame than anything as the seating position is quite different from 4th to 5th gens. I'm also wondering if the issue is in the steering column itself and not the rack. Maybe have the tech disconnect the steering column from the rack and clock spring then try turning the wheel to see if it's binding. You may also want to get them to check the discharge pressure from the PS pump.

 

[NYT4R]

You are a good sport and wish you the best solutions for your problems. I am disappointed that you are not interested in my Aztek but I do understand as it is an acquired taste.

Thanks very much. I will keep you updated when I drive other 4R's.

 

[Mass 4runner]

Option 1: your truck is not functioning as designed
Option 2: your arms are not functioning as designed

P.S, your truck has pedals, not petals. Flowers have petals.

 

[NYT4R]

Option 1: your truck is not functioning as designed
Option 2: your arms are not functioning as designed

P.S, your truck has pedals, not petals. Flowers have petals.

HAHAHAHAH, Thank you for the laughs. Kudos.

 

[NYT4R]

[MENTION=144686]NorthwoodsRunner[/MENTION]

Back on topic in terms of EPS or HPS discussion, could there be a disadvantage to consider when off-roading with an Electronic Power Steering system?

Considering water crossings and such I would think an EPS would have potential to short out and create some crazy results?

Also, while trying to turn in and climb up the boulder face or log would an EPS consider the resistance too much and back-off on it's own in an attempt to protect the steering system?

EPS systems are also the ones where hackers can remote into a vehicle and steer the car themselves, overriding the drivers input.

I may be too old-school when considering the fact that I would like to be in as much control as safely possible in terms of directional and speed input. Being in IT I am also too suspicious of electronic input systems if there is not adequate protection to outside influence (i.e. firewalls, proper authentication, encryption etc).

Boyd, I would like to apologize to you for accidentally hijacking your thread. I didnt know it was going to go that way. It wasnt my intention.

As far as anyone who has been following my issue in response to EPS VS HPS, I would like to add today that I test drove 2 4R's this past few days and found that the steering heaviness/tightness was less on the 2 other vehicles I drove. And the steering response was better on both as well. Now considering that I have had my local mechanic adjust the preload 4 times and its just a bit heavier at this point then the 2 I test drove, then its definitely my 4R. Which leads me to calling out the dealership and their Toyotas Feild Service Tech for finding no fault with my steering. I would love to ask them if they pressure tested the Power Steering Pump or checked out the Rack bearing. I know darn well they didnt. So F them...I will have the problem resolved by my local Mechanic.

And as far as the seating position is concerned, I did try every posible position imaginable and I also put the wheel in every posiion available too. Obviously the issue is with the rack preload. Maybe even with the PS Pump. But having the preload backed off ever so slightly 4 times has helped. I am having one last adjustment on Friday. I should be go to go by then.

And just as an FYI, the first 4R I drove had 1 mile on the OD and the other one had 9.

Boyd, back to you.

 

[TK-422]

I have been watching this thread and my trail doesn't take much force to turn the wheel even with the lift and tires. It's tight like a Mustang but not that bad.

I was thinking you could take a luggage scale and see how much force it takes to turn it. they are cheap and would give you the weight it takes to move it in an instant.

 

[Stangboy]

My last two vehicles(2008 Mini Cooper S and a Scion FR-S) both had EPS. I was kinda surprised to find my 4R had HPS, I thought most new cars would have EPS. Both had great steering feedback. The Scion was just about perfect, so I know that Toyota(and Subaru, LOL) know how to set them up for "road feel".

 

[Boyds4Runner]

Boyd, I would like to apologize to you for accidentally hijacking your thread. I didnt know it was going to go that way. It wasnt my intention.


Boyd, back to you.

[MENTION=143932]NYT4R[/MENTION] LOL! No-harm, No-foul! No need to apologize.

It wasn't my thread anyway, it was [MENTION=144686]NorthwoodsRunner[/MENTION] which gets indicated by "OP" next to their Forum Name whenever that person starts a thread.

I was just letting the OP know that I didn't ignore his thread to answer your question.

Even if it wasn't directly related to the originating discussion topic of Electronic Power Steering v.s. Hydraulic Power Steering, information like what you posted is good to read anyway. It could trigger a solution from someone having the similar issue. At the very least it points out things to look into and compare.

I do hope your power-steering issue gets resolved to your liking be it finding the problem and getting it fixed or (sadly, if it has to be) finding another vehicle.

 

[NorthwoodsRunner]

Even if it wasn't directly related to the originating discussion topic of Electronic Power Steering v.s. Hydraulic Power Steering, information like what you posted is good to read anyway. It could trigger a solution from someone having the similar issue. At the very least it points out things to look into and compare.

This is the exact purpose of my post. I like softer suspension on a long trip because it is less tiring for me. Some people may want more power steering boost and some people prefer less boost (like myself). This comfort stuff is very subjective and complicated so if you are happy with T4R then you are blessed.