6th gen 2017 4R, will it exist?

[Gecko]

I admin a Lexus forum and we've spent the morning looking at some trademarks Lexus just made for a small CUV based on the upcoming Toyota C-HR. I won't go too far into the background, but if you look at Toyota's trend with adding Otto/Atkinson cycle and D4-S to new engines, you can see about a 12-15% increase in horsepower and around 6-8% in torque before/after on engines with the same displacement.

Following this math, if for the 6th gen, Toyota is going to keep the 4.0L displacement and update it with Atkinson/Otto cycle and D4-S, I think we can expect to see around 300-310hp and 295-300 lb-ft of torque.

I assume we will get one of two scenarios:

• Tacoma's 278hp/261lb-ft
  -or-
• Revised 4.0L as above with ~305hp/295lb-ft

If the latter, I wouldn't expect more than a 1 MPG increase in city and maybe 2 MPG highway, due mostly to more gears in the transmission and a slightly more efficient engine. I'll bet on 18 city/24 highway/20 combined.

Flame suit on for bumping this threat with (not totally uninformed) speculation.:flame:

 

[CO-Cygnus]

[*]Tacoma's 278hp/261lb-ft

:rip:

Seriously. Less torque at higher revs than the current 4.0. Probably worse mileage due to needing to rev the absolute crap out of the engine to make any power, especially around here.

If they don't re-introduce the V8 and the only option is the 3.5 with that tune then... well. Maybe my next truck is a Tundra or a Tahoe.

 

[Knight-Errant]

I think the real question on everyone's mind is, "Will the Trail still have a hood-scoop?" We all know it adds an extra 25hp.

 

[bigbwb]

I admin a Lexus forum and we've spent the morning looking at some trademarks Lexus just made for a small CUV based on the upcoming Toyota C-HR. I won't go too far into the background, but if you look at Toyota's trend with adding Otto/Atkinson cycle and D4-S to new engines, you can see about a 12-15% increase in horsepower and around 6-8% in torque before/after on engines with the same displacement.

Following this math, if for the 6th gen, Toyota is going to keep the 4.0L displacement and update it with Atkinson/Otto cycle and D4-S, I think we can expect to see around 300-310hp and 295-300 lb-ft of torque.

I assume we will get one of two scenarios:

• Tacoma's 278hp/261lb-ft
  -or-
• Revised 4.0L as above with ~305hp/295lb-ft

If the latter, I wouldn't expect more than a 1 MPG increase in city and maybe 2 MPG highway, due mostly to more gears in the transmission and a slightly more efficient engine. I'll bet on 18 city/24 highway/20 combined.

Flame suit on for bumping this threat with (not totally uninformed) speculation.:flame:

I sure hope you are right and that the current 4.0L will be revised rather than it getting the 3.5L Tacoma motor. The 4R in my opinion is too heavy for the 3.5L and the disappointing numbers it produces.

What Lexus forum.....Clublexus??

 

[bigbwb]

I just read the 2017 Toyota Highlander is getting a new 3.5L V6 with DI, likely the same motor the new RX has. The interesting piece is that its also getting the 8 speed auto!

I have to wonder if Toyota plans to offer the 3.5L in the next 4R with the 8 speed and then also offer the 8 speed in the Tacoma (to bring more buyers after the initial sales rush begins to slow).

2017 Toyota Highlander Official Photos and Info ? News ? Car and Driver

 

[NuclearN8]

I just read the 2017 Toyota Highlander is getting a new 3.5L V6 with DI, likely the same motor the new RX has. The interesting piece is that its also getting the 8 speed auto!

I have to wonder if Toyota plans to offer the 3.5L in the next 4R with the 8 speed and then also offer the 8 speed in the Tacoma (to bring more buyers after the initial sales rush begins to slow).

2017 Toyota Highlander Official Photos and Info ? News ? Car and Driver

The next gen 4Runner will be debuted with the same powetrain as the Tacoma... with different ECM/ transmission software tunes.
The midyear refresh of the 6th Gen 4Runner will give it a new front facia, updated dash and the 8 speed transmission (same changes Toyota Japan made to the LC200 in 2016 for it's midGen refresh). Don't overthink it, Toyota doesn't......

Toyota has standard products that can be interchanged amongst platforms/ vehicles to allow them to maintain an extremely high QDR while offering seemingly something new but alas it's usually service proven on some other platform. The technology that isn't service proven undergoes extensive R&D on their premium models (the Land Cruiser) or brand (Lexus) first because their premium price dictates the customer needs to have and wants that exclusivity to justify the value in the price... eventually the technology becomes service proven (and they've had enough time to R&D something brand new to introduce on the more expensive models or brand) and the old stuff trickles down to the lower priced units (4Runner, Tacoma highlander etc...)... This in a nutshell is how Toyota and Harley and every other major manufacturer makes boatloads of money...

If you believe or think the 4Runner will have an exclusive engine or transmission you're going to be sadly disappointed I am afraid.

 

[05Rrunner]

The next gen 4Runner will be debuted with the same powetrain as the Tacoma... with different ECM/ transmission software tunes.
The midyear refresh of the 6th Gen 4Runner will give it a new front facia, updated dash and the 8 speed transmission (same changes Toyota Japan made to the LC200 in 2016 for it's midGen refresh). Don't overthink it, Toyota doesn't......

Toyota has standard products that can be interchanged amongst platforms/ vehicles to allow them to maintain an extremely high QDR while offering seemingly something new but alas it's usually service proven on some other platform. The technology that isn't service proven undergoes extensive R&D on their premium models (the Land Cruiser) or brand (Lexus) first because their premium price dictates the customer needs to have and wants that exclusivity to justify the value in the price... eventually the technology becomes service proven (and they've had enough time to R&D something brand new to introduce on the more expensive models or brand) and the old stuff trickles down to the lower priced units (4Runner, Tacoma highlander etc...)... This in a nutshell is how Toyota and Harley and every other major manufacturer makes boatloads of money...

If you believe or think the 4Runner will have an exclusive engine or transmission you're going to be sadly disappointed I am afraid.

The 4Runner has an exclusive engine and transmission and transfer case in the past and now. The Tacoma got the old 4.0 from the 4Runner . Even Back in 1986 Toyota had a Turbo 4Runner only drivetrain.

Just FYI currently the 4Runner has its own trans and transfer case that is shared with nothing in the USA . Not Lexus , not landcruiser , not Tacoma. A version of the motor was a option in the Tundra at one point.

 

[balong48]

Lexus and Toyota Will Make Automated Braking Standard on Nearly Every Model and Trim Level by End of 2017 | Corporate
I wonder if we will see this on a new 4Runner in the fall. Seems like too big of a tech package to add on to a vehicle close to the end of its generational life cycle. Even though Toyota announced/showcased a 2017 TRD Pro, doesn't mean we won't see a 2018 4Runner in September. They could skip the 2018 TRD Pro model year, similar to what they did for the Tacoma; they offered no TRD Pro for the model 2016 year.

Toyota did just add most of this on the 2017 Highlander, but that was a refresh. The 4Runner already had its refresh, but who knows what Toyota will do. Maybe we will see a 5.75 generation in the fall, mostly a 5th gen refresh (5.5gen) with a touch of improvements.

 

[05Rrunner]

Lexus and Toyota Will Make Automated Braking Standard on Nearly Every Model and Trim Level by End of 2017 | Corporate
I wonder if we will see this on a new 4Runner in the fall. Seems like too big of a tech package to add on to a vehicle close to the end of its generational life cycle. Even though Toyota announced/showcased a 2017 TRD Pro, doesn't mean we won't see a 2018 4Runner in September. They could skip the 2018 TRD Pro model year, similar to what they did for the Tacoma; they offered no TRD Pro for the model 2016 year.

Toyota did just add most of this on the 2017 Highlander, but that was a refresh. The 4Runner already had its refresh, but who knows what Toyota will do. Maybe we will see a 5.75 generation in the fall, mostly a 5th gen refresh (5.5gen) with a touch of improvements.

You will not see it on the 2017 4Runner that will be a carryover released this fall. The new tech will come by end of 2017 on the new 2018 6th gen 4Runner.
Toyota is talking calendar year not model year 2017

 

[NuclearN8]

The 4Runner has an exclusive engine and transmission and transfer case in the past and now. The Tacoma got the old 4.0 from the 4Runner . Even Back in 1986 Toyota had a Turbo 4Runner only drivetrain.

Just FYI currently the 4Runner has its own trans and transfer case that is shared with nothing in the USA . Not Lexus , not landcruiser , not Tacoma. A version of the motor was a option in the Tundra at one point.

My comment was geared towards the future (it's easy to nitpick in 2016 after the FJ cruiser was discontinued in the US market and the Tacoma got redesigned (I suppose you didn't notice how the Tacoma shares and engine and transmission and differentials with other platforms inside and outside the usa, seeing a trend here = mass procurement/ modularization/ standardization), since that is the whole point of this thread....

Looking towards the future, Toyota, like all other companies, is looking for ways to greatly reduce costs. One of the easiest ways to do this is with standardization across platforms which allows for, amongst other things, huge purchase order agreements that get the price per component way down.. lowering costs means more profit for Toyota because one thing we can all agree on is the next 4Runner will be more expensive, not less expensive.

 

[balong48]

You will not see it on the 2017 4Runner that will be a carryover released this fall. The new tech will come by end of 2017 on the new 2018 6th gen 4Runner.
Toyota is talking calendar year not model year 2017

Yep I misread that. My bad.

 

[Jetboy]

The 4.0 isn't going away. It might for the 4runner but it's in new 2016 MY redesigned hilux models all over the world. Same with the LC150. Still has a 4.0L.

Something that might not be obvious is that the 3.5L runs in atkinson cycle mode a lot of the time. 3500rpms isn't the same as 3500rpms in a normal engine. If it's only pumping 60% of a normal volume of air, it's acting as if it's running at maybe 2000rpms in terms of fuel burning, but it's doing it a lot more efficiently. The mpg will go up even during high rpms highway cruising because the mode of operation is different.

On TFL's tow test it improved significantly over the prior model towing even though it ran at 6k rpms pretty much the whole time.

Both the 4.6L adn 5.7l are due for the atkinson makeover. I expect that to happen soon. It may be possible that a 4.? small v8 atkinson cycle dual vvti would be made for the 4runner, but I'm not optimistic. I think it'll be found in the GX only. But... if it is really efficient, I suppose it would be a good option.

I'd much rather see the 4runner drop 700lbs than get a big engine though.

 

[philsey]

I'd much rather see the 4runner drop 700lbs than get a big engine though.

But can they do that and stay BOF?

 

[Gecko]

Lexus and Toyota Will Make Automated Braking Standard on Nearly Every Model and Trim Level by End of 2017 | Corporate
I wonder if we will see this on a new 4Runner in the fall. Seems like too big of a tech package to add on to a vehicle close to the end of its generational life cycle. Even though Toyota announced/showcased a 2017 TRD Pro, doesn't mean we won't see a 2018 4Runner in September. They could skip the 2018 TRD Pro model year, similar to what they did for the Tacoma; they offered no TRD Pro for the model 2016 year.

Toyota did just add most of this on the 2017 Highlander, but that was a refresh. The 4Runner already had its refresh, but who knows what Toyota will do. Maybe we will see a 5.75 generation in the fall, mostly a 5th gen refresh (5.5gen) with a touch of improvements.

You will not see it on the 2017 4Runner that will be a carryover released this fall. The new tech will come by end of 2017 on the new 2018 6th gen 4Runner.
Toyota is talking calendar year not model year 2017

Towards the bottom of the press release:

Models that will not offer the systems standard by the end of 2017 include Lexus GX, Toyota Mirai, 4Runner, and 86 (jointly developed with Subaru), and Scion iA (developed by Mazda). Mirai and Scion iA currently provide pre-collision including AEB as standard equipment.

 

[balong48]

Towards the bottom of the press release:

Models that will not offer the systems standard by the end of 2017 include Lexus GX, Toyota Mirai, 4Runner, and 86 (jointly developed with Subaru), and Scion iA (developed by Mazda). Mirai and Scion iA currently provide pre-collision including AEB as standard equipment.

:doh: I guess I cannot read... so in that case we definitely are waiting for anything major to be done.

 

[CO-Cygnus]

So...

The GX is supposedly being replaced by a Unibody SUV.

I don't see the Sequoia listed in exclusion.

The other cars on that list are extremely niche.

I don't like it.

 

[Gecko]

So...

The GX is supposedly being replaced by a Unibody SUV.

I don't see the Sequoia listed in exclusion.

The other cars on that list are extremely niche.

I don't like it.

No real confirmation on GX yet. Lexus has trademarked "RX 350L" and "RX 450hL" so it seems that they will lengthen RX to accommodate a third row under the "L" moniker.

Not sure on Sequoia. I am hearing new Tundra next year, which could also mean a new Sequoia, or it could be dropped as has been widely rumored. Good catch on that though.

 

[NuclearN8]

If a Sequoia falls by the production way side, will anyone really notice?

Dropping 700 lbs is pretty straightforward...
Make the move to an all aluminum body like Ford did on the F150's...

If ford can do it, Toyota surely can (if they wanted to...)

 

[alico268]

If a Sequoia falls by the production way side, will anyone really notice?

Dropping 700 lbs is pretty straightforward...
Make the move to an all aluminum body like Ford did on the F150's...

If ford can do it, Toyota surely can (if they wanted to...)

A 4Runner that won't rust... blasphemy!

 

[qs933]

Towards the bottom of the press release:

Models that will not offer the systems standard by the end of 2017 include Lexus GX, Toyota Mirai, 4Runner, and 86 (jointly developed with Subaru), and Scion iA (developed by Mazda). Mirai and Scion iA currently provide pre-collision including AEB as standard equipment.

That paragraph got me a little concerned -- it implies "calendar year" 2017. Given that we'd expect the 2018 "model year" to be introduced before the end of 2017 (generally, but not always), it seems like we won't see any major changes to the 4Runner even for the 2018 model year.