A750F Transmission Fluid - ATF WS or T-IV ?!?!

[firebirdguy]

firebirdguy and captsolo have been going round and round in the "170k service" thread (link here). I'm not sure why they're still going back and forth regarding which transmission takes what fluid. I posted the following in that thread...

Directly from the owners manuals:

Page 404 of the 2005 4Runner owners manual (link here):
Notice: Using automatic transmission
fluid other than “Toyota Genuine ATF
WS” may cause deterioration in shift
quality, locking up of your transmission
accompanied by vibration, and ultimately damage the automatic transmission
of your vehicle.

In contrary from page 350 in the 2003 manual (link here):
Notice: Using automatic transmission
fluid other than “Toyota Genuine ATF
Type T−IV” may cause deterioration in
shift quality, locking up of your transmission accompanied by vibration, and
ultimately damage the automatic transmission of your vehicle.

we are going round & round because he doesnt believe WS is the correct fluid for a 2005 4runner.... & we go round & round in many threads lately because he posts incorrect things & goes off on insane rants about unrelated jibberish & changes what he says every other post... im honestly just trying to help the guy but he cant seem to understand or accept factual information & then calls me/other members names when we prove him wrong or explain things he clearly doesnt understand.

im not sure why he is so angry & contentious but once he started insulting me & other members for no reason, i have a right to defend myself & restate the facts i post so others reading in the future can ignore 99% of what he posts. you'd think he would want to learn something from others on here but apparently thats not the case. im really trying to bite my tounge on these threads, im a member on many other forums for my hobbies & have never seen anyone act the way he does. its getting to be rather tiresome so i suppose i should just let him carry on with his delusions.

thank you for posting that info from the manuals... i looked up a 2005 manual on toyota.com just to see for myself & it indeed says absolutely NOTHING about T-IV trans fluid in a 2005 US based manual because 2005 4runners use WS fluid. so unless 2005 bahama shipped 4runners didnt come with a 5 speed trans then its just more nonsense from this guy.

 

[firebirdguy]

Toyota Genuine ATF Type T-IV - Bing

Sure Fierbird's advice trumps the dealer I use and the OM that came with my 2005 4runner and sits in my lap right now :

THE OM that came with my 2005 4runner V6 SAYS:

(copyright @ 2004 TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION) PAGE "i" (VERY FIRST PAGE)

page 261 of same OM it says

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (4 speed)

"When changing the ATF, use only "Toyota Genuine ATF Type T-IV" (ATF JWS33309 or NWS6500)

In the 4runner manual in italics TM write: "Toyota Genuine ATF Type T-IV"

TOYOTA MANUAL writes as follows pg 261:

""Notice: Using other ATF other than ""Toyota Genuine ATF Type T-IV" may cause deterioration in shift quality, locking up your transmission accompanied by vibration, and ultimately damage the ATM of your vehicle""

SPECIAL NOTE: Both Executive Motors / Toyota Motors dealer here in Nassau have serviced my 4runner with Type T-IV (Not WS) ever since I owned the car and it says so on their invoice with the charges (that I keep) AND I have 150,000 miles on the 4runner engine and transmission without any transmission "slippage" ever!


copy and paste below off internet...

Genuine Toyota ATF Type T-IV is an advanced Automatic Transmission Fluid that has been specifically designed by Toyota's R&D division, especially for Toyota/Scion/Lexus automatic transmissions. This Genuine Toyota ATF meets or exceeds all Toyota warranty requirements and is tested and approved by Toyota. Toyota Type T-IV ATF provides for smooth shifting even in extreme temperatures and the precise friction coefficient helps prevent transmission shudder. Special additives help protect against excessive wear and corrosion and this ATF is chemically balanced to be compatible with rubber seals and metal finishes inside your Toyota, Scion or Lexus transmission. Please refer to your owner's manual to ensure that this Type T-IV ATF is the correct fluid for your vehicle.

Specifically designed by Toyota for certain Toyota/Scion/Lexus automatic transmissions.
Required for use in many Toyota models.
Meets or exceeds all Toyota warranty requirements.
Protects against excessive wear and corrosion.


BTW.... IF you have Type T-IV ATF you must only service or add Type T-IV ATF.
Type T-IV ATF is not compatible with Toyota Type WS (used in new cars and trucks built by Toyota).
Amazon.com: Toyota 00289-ATFWS Lexus & Automatic Transmission Fluid WS ATF World Standard, Pack of 4: Automotive

WS is a synthetic
Type T-IV is non-synthetic

my advice is based on what a 2005 4runner with a 5 speed trans says to use... WS. period. do you have a 5 speed trans or 4 speed?

could you please post a pic of this manual that sits in your lap? because the link you posted is for a 2000 4runner. or can you post a pic of your engine bay showing a trans dipstick? or a pic of the door sticker showing what trans it has. its a fact that if its a 5 speed it does NOT use T-IV fluid. thats all we are trying to tell you here. if your dealer used T-IV they are wrong & only using it because they cant get WS for some strange reason.

or i suppose you can call me a name again & post a pic of a fish, that will prove us all wrong!

here is the PDF of a 2005 owners manual directly from toyota.com. please read what it says on page 404... i guess toyotas advice TRUMPS what your dealer told you.

https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM35843U/pdf/OM35843U.pdf

 

[Captsolo]

Shares of my MGA are up 5.7% today. They make autoparts, but rumor has it they are going to build cars and trucks too.

Magna International, Inc. (MGA) Stock Price, News, Quote & History - Yahoo Finance

Get a real ride...

Firebirdguy... You are the only one on this site. You making millions from your posts?

BTW.. My 4runner is a 4 speed and takes the Type T-IV - so your advice to me is and has been all wrong.

Thomas Azzara on LinkedIn: Google has no office, no staff and little more than a plain PO Box

Offshore since 1990;
Audited by IRS in 1997 (After forming over 500 offshore companies for clients).;
"We are pleased to tell you that our examination of your tax return(s) for above periods shows no change is necessary in the tax reported." - Lowrery / Chief Examination Division/IRS
(tax reported was 0$) (IRS audit was for Thomas Azzara)

 

[firebirdguy]

Shares of my MGA are up 5.7% today. They make autoparts, but rumor has it they are going to build cars and trucks too.

Magna International, Inc. (MGA) Stock Price, News, Quote & History - Yahoo Finance

Get a real ride...

why man? why??? what does that have to do with this thread & ws vs t-iv fluid???? & what "real ride" should i get.. i already own a 2008 sport 4runner! & it doesnt leak a drop of oil on full synthetic oil nor does it have head gasket issues from using the synthetic oil. i also use WS rated fluid in my WS spec'd trans. i must be CRAZY!

again, here is the toyota owner manual for a 2005, please for the love of god, read page 404 & tell us what it says to use for transmission fluid. im anxious to hear your reply to that....

https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM35843U/pdf/OM35843U.pdf

 

[Seymore Butts]

Firebird, I think you're dealing with someone who's suffering from a cognitive disability.

 

[Flybynight]

I wouldn't be touching the trans fluid in these at this point unless its been regularly changed over the years. New fluid will literally wash the clutches bare - you can look it up online and the horror stories. They are Un-servicable for a reason.

 

[firebirdguy]

I wouldn't be touching the trans fluid in these at this point unless its been regularly changed over the years. New fluid will literally wash the clutches bare - you can look it up online and the horror stories. They are Un-servicable for a reason.

you must be referring to doing a full trans fluid flush, where a machine power flushes out all the fluid, that can cause problems on some older trans. but doing some trans pan fluid drain & fills of a few qts at a time definitely will not harm a healthy trans. nor will doing a full fluid exchange that replaces all 12-13qts of fluid. toyota even states in the maint section of the owners manual that a trans fluid replacement is to be done at 100k miles or 60k if abused or towed. it wont damage or wash clutches in a properly working trans.

toyota dealers do trans fluid changes, & they usually use the correct type of fluid..... & there are countless members on this forum that have done full trans fluid exchanges at 150-200k+ miles & not one has reported any kind of troubles that werent there before the change, some even stated a shutter issue improved or went away. these toyota transmissions are not "unservicable" the WS fluid is called "lifetime" but we all know thats not true since the fluid is supposed to be replaced according to toyota & aisin at certain intervals.

problems or horror stories usually have some underlying condition that caused the problems... like the trans was on its last leg anyways & the old fluid was limping it along. new fluid should not cause any problems in most working transmissions.

 

[Captsolo]

Thanks for your input:

the dealer here used type IV when they serviced mine. It's on the receipt I'm looking at now.

In my OM it says WS for (5-speed) and ATF Type T- IV (4 speed). My 4runner is the 4 speed!

I have the 4 speed (pretty sure). The dealer used the right fluid in my last D/F

If it fails at 150,000 miles on the type IV be hard to prove it was because of the wrong fluid (because its the right fluid) - even with the dealer receipt. They would likely say the mistake was just in the receipt OR they used the right T-IV recommended by Toyota.

"Toyota TSB TC003-99 contains a chart that indicates that T-IV is interchangeable with any T type ATF, but not Dexron II or III. TSB TC006-03 states in bolded capital letters that WS is NOT compatible with any other fluid. The two together would seem to indicate that later Dexron will sub for earlier Dexron, and T-IV will sub for any other T type, but WS doesn't sub for anything and none of the three are intechangeable. I don't know the ins and outs of all the fluids, so all I can do is go by what I read. is it okay to mix atf t-iv and aft ws? | Toyota Nation Forum

I'm pretty certain I should use Type IV and that is all that has been in my runner. I have 5 quarts of Type IV in the garage for next change - so I'm OK.
Also Type IV came with my 4runner which was built and shipped from Japan.

Not 100% sure its a 4 speed or 5 speed.

Never bought or used the WS.:bluejump:

Toyota dealer did a 6 quart D/F - no flush.

 

[y=mx+b]

Not 100% sure its a 4 speed or 5 speed.

Check the driver front door vin sticker, it will tell you. This is mine for example. I have a 2005 SR5, and in the bottom right of the sticker circled in RED is the transmission code. A750 = 5 speed and A340 = 4 Speed. The F at the end means its a 4wd, yours will likely say A750E as its a 2005 2wd. Check this vin sticker and report back on what code you find, that will let you know if its a 4 speed or 5 speed

 

[Captsolo]

:bounce:y=mx+b The driver's side door doesn't have that sticker but I'm betting I have the 4-speed tranny which takes T-IV fluid (same as the 4runner when it arrived from Japan from the factory) as the Toyota dealer here in Nassau has been using T-IV for my services. Good thing I didn't listen to firebirdguy's advice as WS is a lousy fluid and not meant for my 4runner. He does not even know there is a 4-speed tranny for the 2005 4runner. He posted the manual for his 5 speed above..


Thomas Azzara on LinkedIn: Google has no office, no staff and little more than a plain PO Box

I'll check the door later when the sun is up and I take the car out of the garage. At first look, I did not see that sticker. A340 = 4 Speed??? Thanks for the information.

 

[y=mx+b]

I'll check the door later when the sun is up and I take the car out of the garage. At first look, I did not see that sticker. A340 = 4 Speed??? Thanks for the information.

Ok that sounds good, check the sticker and let us know what you find so we can help. Yes, the A340 is the 4 speed transmission. A750 is the 5 speed

Another way to tell if you have the 4 speed or 5 speed is to look at your gear selector in the gauge cluster. I've attached some pictures below that show the difference in how the gear selector will look for the 4 speed vs 5 speed.

The 4 speed will have the gear indicator with labels P R N D 3 2 L like seen below. The main thing to look for here is the D32L are the 4 gears. L gear is visually below the 2 gear on the indicator.

And the 5 speed will have the gear indicator labeled P R N D 4 3 2 L like seen here below here. The main thing is the D432L are the 5 gears. Visually the L gear is next to the 2 on the 5 speed, whereas on the 4 speed, it is below the 2

 

[DMX512]

Toyota 4Runner History 2005

 

[Captsolo]

Ok that sounds good, check the sticker and let us know what you find so we can help. Yes, the A340 is the 4 speed transmission. A750 is the 5 speed

Another way to tell if you have the 4 speed or 5 speed is to look at your gear selector in the gauge cluster. I've attached some pictures below that show the difference in how the gear selector will look for the 4 speed vs 5 speed.

The 4 speed will have the gear indicator with labels P R N D 3 2 L like seen below. The main thing to look for here is the D32L are the 4 gears. L gear is visually below the 2 gear on the indicator.

And the 5 speed will have the gear indicator labeled P R N D 4 3 2 L like seen here below here. The main thing is the D432L are the 5 gears. Visually the L gear is next to the 2 on the 5 speed, whereas on the 4 speed, it is below the 2

Mine is like the one in your picture - same. P R N 4D 3 2-L

So I gots the 4 speed?

150,000 miles purchased with 0 (new) from Toyota Dealer.

Unless I'm too old to remember, it starts up and runs immediately - just like Day #1 at the dealer in 2005.
I test drove a brand new Ford SUV on the Ford dealer's lot on the same day.
I then went to the Toyota dealer and bought the 4runner with Cash.

The Ford actually had a softer ride.

The most amazing thing to me about the 15-year-old 4runner is it has zero rust anywhere you look on the body where there is paint.

I had a 1996 GMC JIMMY (purchased new) in my driveway and after ten years there was rust everywhere - the rear hatch was so rusted I was afraid to open and close it. It ran OK and started OK (sometimes), but I sold it for $800.

On the day I sold it we had to push it out of my garage. It then started and ran fine and they gave me the cash.

I've replaced starters on my 4runner. The only thing that has failed - 3 times. I carry a new backup in the garage for $100 off Amazon. Amazon.com: DB Electrical SND0491 Starter Compatible With/Replacement For Toyota Tacoma & Tundra 4.0L 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 & 4Runner 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 FJ Cruiser 2007 2008 2009: Automotive

I live in Nassau Bahamas. The Toyota dealer offered to order me a new starter from Japan for $900. I declined and found an AM locally. It lasted 4 years - same as the OEM one it replaced.

There are two bolts that hold the 4runner starter. My boat mechanic replaced one in my driveway in about 30 minutes (for $60).

 

[firebirdguy]

Mine is like the one in your picture - same. P R N 4D 3 2-L

So I gots the 5 speed?

yes, you gots the 5 speed....

apparently the captain doesnt even know what trans his 4runner has... one thread hes asking why they used T-IV in a WS trans & justified it by saying its because the dealer cant get WS, the next he claims his 4runner came new with T-IV, now after posting that i am & was wrong, hes saying his gauges show a 5 speed... WOW.

how about just post a pic of the engine bay like i asked to show a 4 speed dipstick? or the gear shifter? or the door sticker that every single 4runner is shipped with? pretty simple concept.

& based on the last post with a link to 4runner changes, a 2005 uses the 5 speed trans. why is this so complicating???

what ive stated is based on what toyota says & shows in the 2005 owners manual, if by chance a bahama shipped 4runner has a 4 speed then thats fine & 99% of people arent aware of that... if not, it is a fact all 2005 have the 5 speed & use WS. how about just posting a pic of what we asked for to put an end to this debacle?

& BTW, i have a 20084runner, i posted a link to a 2005 owners manual since thats what you have...

BTW.. My 4runner is a 4 speed and takes the Type T-IV - so your advice to me is and has been all wrong.

LOL!

 

[DMX512]

Then we have this

The Toyota dealer changed my tranny fluid... but | Toyota 4Runner Forum [4Runners.com]

And this

What kind of transmission fluid for 2005 4runner? | Toyota 4Runner Forum [4Runners.com]

 

[DMX512]

And another one
Captsolo post at #11 however read the #12 as well

New 2010 4Runner Owner - Transmission question | Toyota 4Runner Forum [4Runners.com]

 

[firebirdguy]

Then we have this

The Toyota dealer changed my tranny fluid... but | Toyota 4Runner Forum [4Runners.com]

And this

What kind of transmission fluid for 2005 4runner? | Toyota 4Runner Forum [4Runners.com]

yep, just more proof hes all over the place on this (& every other post) first link he says it was 5 qts & states it was WS fluid, next link he says 6 but later on says 5 again! on here he has said numerous times it was T-IV fluid they used... :noidea: makes your head hurt! sounds like a bad case of dyslexia or drunk posting!

And another one
Captsolo post at #11 however read the #12 as well

New 2010 4Runner Owner - Transmission question | Toyota 4Runner Forum [4Runners.com]

clearly says he has the 5speed trans (no dipstick) in that thread ....................... i give up!

 

[DMX512]

Captsolo

You must talk down to the Toyota dealer like you do to folks on here, because they are obviously giving you “special” pricing.

2005 Toyota 4Runner Parts like Starter

 

[DMX512]

Captsolo

You must talk down to the Toyota dealer like you do to folks on here, because they are obviously giving you “special” pricing.


2005 Toyota 4Runner Parts like Starter

 

[DMX512]

Ugh
Double post