aemravan's build thread - project TacoRunner

[gm350reratliff]

While pulling out the RCV axle I noticed how small and flimsy the factory rack/tierods are.. not to mention already feeling like they are developing some slop after just minor use.. I keep looking at the LC200 rack sitting in the garage and finally decided that I need to start making progress to get this thing installed.

Spent some time to find a 1.200" tapered reamer for ball joints this morning. Not cheap at $90 shipped, but looks like it is LC200/Toyota specific and should work like a charm to open up the knuckles a bit.

My plan is to not custom fab the outers using heim joints so that I can readily replace with factory outer tie rods if needed. I don't believe that the extra tie rod length vs stock will be an issue.. it looks like I should have plenty of cut-down material once I pull the actual measurements on each side so nothing that some bandsaw action can't handle. My hope is to only cut down the outer tie rods so the inner stays unmolested, and this way, if/when I end up going LT I should be able to just slap on a set of Tundra outers to make up the extra length. and if I wanted a set of spares for the trail I can get get another set of LC200 outers and cut them down ahead of time.


I already have the new engine mounts on hand, as well as the spacer plate material that i'll need to plasma cut and have ready on hand. Could be a good project to tackle along with my cam tab replacements coming up shortly..

while on lunch break I also decided that since I'll plan on swapping in the LC200 rack sooner than later it would be good to go ahead and order the lower steering shaft (steering selector shaft?) so that in case I have to modify anything I have an extra one on hand, and if nothing ends up being modified at the very least I will start with a brand new, OEM shaft with fresh joints and all. Getting excited about getting this tackled.

I sure hope you figure this out and you document it. I'm coming up on needing to replace my tie rods and rack at some point (Over 200k miles on my 4th gen) and would like to upgrade to a stronger rack and much stronger tie rods while I'm there.

 

[aemravan]

I sure hope you figure this out and you document it. I'm coming up on needing to replace my tie rods and rack at some point (Over 200k miles on my 4th gen) and would like to upgrade to a stronger rack and much stronger tie rods while I'm there.

I certainly can't take any credit for pioneering my way to this rack one bit, a lot of great people have put in a lot of hard work in getting these to work

LC200 Steering Rack DIY Install Guide | Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum good thread here.

Only thing I am not certain on is whether or not I will be able to easily make it work with factory width control arms.. most guys that I have seen do this ar on a +2 or +3.5" Long Travel kit.. which makes me believe that I will need to cut down at least 2 inches from each side to make it work with factory arms.. I'll have to pull my rack out and measure just how long it is and hope like hell that I have enough material to cut back the outer tie rods.. if not, i'll have to come up with something different, like a custom outer with a hiem joint.. but I would really rather keep the OEM parts if at all possible.


I am planning on documenting this so check in here time to time.

 

[aemravan]

Did some measuring today on the factory rack vs the lc200. I am measuring a .875" difference between the LC200 outer tie rod centerline and the factory outer centerline. That, along with the inner mounting face difference of 1.375" I would be looking at cutting down close to 1.625" (to give some adjustment) from the LC200 tie rods..

LC200:
Stroke: 6.22"
Length between ITREs: 29 7/8

4th gen 4Runner:
Stroke: 6.25"
Length: 28.5"
Turns: 3.06


Long story short, I don't think this would work.. I only have 2" total of threaded inner tie rod on the LC200 rack right now.. this means that in order to make it work, the inner would have to be turned down another 1.5" to allow for another 1.5" of threads to be cut. Certainly possible... just far from ideal... if something was to go wrong on a trail with the inner, you would have to have a replacement already machined down and threaded for a replacement.. the only good news is that this would leave the outers completely stock if they ever needed to be replaced..


Now I'm not quite sure if it is worth the effort in trying to make this work with the factory arms.. if I was on a +2 LT it would have been perfect... damn it... lol.

The other option is to use some DOM tubing and thread one side to interface with the inner tie rod, and use a heim joint with high misalignment spacers on the other side with a straight drilled knuckle to receive a bolt connection.. this is probably a lot cheaper and less labor intensive than pulling the inners and having them machined. Off to do some thinking...

 

[awhitney1]

You can always buy Inv4drZm's LT setup if he is going to sell lol

Did some measuring today on the factory rack vs the lc200. I am measuring a .875" difference between the LC200 outer tie rod centerline and the factory outer centerline. That, along with the inner mounting face difference of 1.375" I would be looking at cutting down close to 1.625" (to give some adjustment) from the LC200 tie rods..

LC200:
Stroke: 6.22"
Length between ITREs: 29 7/8

4th gen 4Runner:
Stroke: 6.25"
Length: 28.5"
Turns: 3.06


Long story short, I don't think this would work.. I only have 2" total of threaded inner tie rod on the LC200 rack right now.. this means that in order to make it work, the inner would have to be turned down another 1.5" to allow for another 1.5" of threads to be cut. Certainly possible... just far from ideal... if something was to go wrong on a trail with the inner, you would have to have a replacement already machined down and threaded for a replacement.. the only good news is that this would leave the outers completely stock if they ever needed to be replaced..


Now I'm not quite sure if it is worth the effort in trying to make this work with the factory arms.. if I was on a +2 LT it would have been perfect... damn it... lol.

The other option is to use some DOM tubing and thread one side to interface with the inner tie rod, and use a heim joint with high misalignment spacers on the other side with a straight drilled knuckle to receive a bolt connection.. this is probably a lot cheaper and less labor intensive than pulling the inners and having them machined. Off to do some thinking...

 

[aemravan]

You can always buy Inv4drZm's LT setup if he is going to sell lol

Oh trust me, we already discussed it haha


I just did a quick price-out on what it would take to fab my own outers.. looks like the thread size on the LC200 rack is an M22-1.5 (at least from what I can measure) so if I bought some 1 1/2" OD DOM tubing with 3/4" ID I could drill it out a bit and tap the internal threads, and then do 3/4 x 3/4" heim joints from ruff stuff industries with 5/8" hardware and misalignment spacers.. rough estimate is $200 to do a set of 2 for materials. Not terrible.. but I'll have to sleep on this one and see if I want to hold off or make either of these options work.. now that I'm thinking about it, as long as I get the inner tie rods off, it really should be terrible to knock down some of the material to run the threads an inch deeper..doesn't have to be super precise.. I bet I could get pretty damn close turning it on a belt sander lol.

 

[aemravan]

after pulling a few more measurements and doing some thinking I decided to pull the trigger on the diy heim outers.. for this LC200 rack.. I'm too deep into this thing to try and change course.. can't necessarily afford to go the proper LT route that I want, and don't trust my current rack/tie rod combo to last very much..

I bought some 1 1/2" OD .375 wall x .750 ID DOM tubing, 6 in piece. I estimate that for the cut down tie rod size I only need 3 inches at most.. I then also bought a 7/8" x 7/8" heim joint kit from Ruff Stuff. I went with a 7/8x3/4" high misalignment spacer so that I can run 3/4" hardware to get this mounted to the knuckle. So far that is $177, and I still will need to buy a 20.5mm drill bit ($15) and then hardware , probably another $30.


I now also will have a tapered reamer for sale since I no longer need it damn it... I hope all this works out.

 

[awhitney1]

Be interesting to see how this rack install goes. I don't trust my stock steering rack and tie-rods either and probably next year will be looking into LT kit with the LC200 rack.

after pulling a few more measurements and doing some thinking I decided to pull the trigger on the diy heim outers.. for this LC200 rack.. I'm too deep into this thing to try and change course.. can't necessarily afford to go the proper LT route that I want, and don't trust my current rack/tie rod combo to last very much..

I bought some 1 1/2" OD .375 wall x .750 ID DOM tubing, 6 in piece. I estimate that for the cut down tie rod size I only need 3 inches at most.. I then also bought a 7/8" x 7/8" heim joint kit from Ruff Stuff. I went with a 7/8x3/4" high misalignment spacer so that I can run 3/4" hardware to get this mounted to the knuckle. So far that is $177, and I still will need to buy a 20.5mm drill bit ($15) and then hardware , probably another $30.


I now also will have a tapered reamer for sale since I no longer need it damn it... I hope all this works out.

 

[aemravan]

Be interesting to see how this rack install goes. I don't trust my stock steering rack and tie-rods either and probably next year will be looking into LT kit with the LC200 rack.

I'll make sure to get many pictures as I get going with my process.. I dont' anticipate it being too terrible to get the rack in, its been done before with no issues other than some possible cutting and trimming of the subframe to get it seated. I'll also be cutting some 1/4" spacers to go under the new engine mounts (which I"m planning on replacing ahead of time before tackling the rack itself).

With a +2" LT you would be good to go as far as I can tell from the measurements I have pulled.. will need to confirm 100% once I get my factory rack out, but like I mentioned, I am about 1.5-1.6" too long on each side to use the LC200 tie rods.. so with a +2" LT you would be able to easily use those outers.. which is a shame, but after pricing everything out I'm just not in a position to spend another 4ish grand on an LT setup right now..

I don't think having heims for outers will be much of an issue.. the 3/4" grade 8 (maybe grade 10) hardware should hold up just fine. I also don't see the 1 1/2" OD DOM Tubing ever failing on me. especially not in a 3" length that I need.. which means that the only thing I should really need for a spare on trails would be 1 heim joint set with a nut and bolt.. If anything, the inner tie rod would fail ahead of the dom tubing... but I also don't see that happening with the size increase over stock. The only thing that concerns me a bit is possibly losing a bit of steering angle with the heim over the factory outer since it won't have the clearance bends in it but rather be straight.. I can't imagine this being very limiting but we'll see. If this doesnt work I'll look into turning down the inners and threading them 2 inches deeper and cutting off the 2" on the lead edge to use the factory outers. Would be an expensive experiment.. but hey.. it's the price you pay to innovate lol

By the sounds of it, I may be the first 4th gen with an LC200 that isn't running an long travel setup.. lol. :guitar3:

 

[alextmullis]

Have you seen these? Prgproducts.com

 

[aemravan]

Have you seen these? Prgproducts.com

got excited at first, and then realized that it wont work. These are for the factory rack.. so if you wanted to get rid of the factory outer these would be great. The LC200 rack is 22mm diameter threaded shaft vs the 15mm for the 4runner rack. This is however exactly what I am trying to accomplish so it does give me a better peace of mind that it should work with minor issues.

I'll also mention that the price point is right in line with what I will be at when everything is said and done.

 

[aemravan]

The lower steering shaft delivered today. So nice to have fresh, OEM parts.

With that said.. can someone explain the ribs on the shaft to me please...? I was baffled when I found out this wasn't a rubber cover but rather very hard material instead lol

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[y=mx+b]

The lower steering shaft delivered today. So nice to have fresh, OEM parts.

With that said.. can someone explain the ribs on the shaft to me please...? I was baffled when I found out this wasn't a rubber cover but rather very hard material instead lol

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my guess is its an easy place to have a guaranteed failure to prevent the steering column from spearing the driver in an accident

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

my guess is its an easy place to have a guaranteed failure to prevent the steering column from spearing the driver in an accident

That and maybe vibration damping. It definitely adds a little weight to that section, and with a series of bellows it might disrupt varying frequencies.

 

[aemravan]

both very solid, and previously unconsidered points on my parts. Thanks!

 

[aemravan]

Just saw a video on the RCLT install using a lc200 rack, and looky looky, they’re using the same idea for thr outers lol , I feel much better. Theirs is 3.5” longer than mine will be, but the ideal is the same

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[aemravan]

Yesterday I confirmed the thread size and pitch of the LC200 rack tie rod threads. The inner-to-outer tie rod thread connection is a M22 x 1.5 for anyone curious/interested to know.



Luckily we already have a pretty nice tap/die set at my dads garage, so between that, and the 20.5mm drill bit I just got from amazon I should be in good shape to start fabricating the outer rods as soon as the DOM tubing from metals depot shows up. I have a feeling it will end up being a VERY short tube since the heim joint and weld-in bung will add quite a bit of length alone. I'm hoping I can have at least 1" of thread engagement to the inner tie rod since that is about what the factory LC200 rack came with, maximum engagement all the way turned in yields 1.5" of engagement but I think that is excessive.. realistically even .5-.75" should suffice, but I need to do some thinking on that and see how much room I have to work with within the DOM tubing itself prior to bottoming out against the heim.


Edit* looks like for grade 8 hardware for an m22 x1.5 thread you’re shooting for a little over 1 inch for min engagement, so if I can get it closer to 1.5 I should be perfectly fine. The steering system will never see the type of forces that would make the threads of this size fail even at 1” but I like a little safety factor lol

 

[Inv4drZm]

Yesterday I confirmed the thread size and pitch of the LC200 rack tie rod threads. The inner-to-outer tie rod thread connection is a M22 x 1.5 for anyone curious/interested to know.



Luckily we already have a pretty nice tap/die set at my dads garage, so between that, and the 20.5mm drill bit I just got from amazon I should be in good shape to start fabricating the outer rods as soon as the DOM tubing from metals depot shows up. I have a feeling it will end up being a VERY short tube since the heim joint and weld-in bung will add quite a bit of length alone. I'm hoping I can have at least 1" of thread engagement to the inner tie rod since that is about what the factory LC200 rack came with, maximum engagement all the way turned in yields 1.5" of engagement but I think that is excessive.. realistically even .5-.75" should suffice, but I need to do some thinking on that and see how much room I have to work with within the DOM tubing itself prior to bottoming out against the heim.


Edit* looks like for grade 8 hardware for an m22 x1.5 thread you’re shooting for a little over 1 inch for min engagement, so if I can get it closer to 1.5 I should be perfectly fine. The steering system will never see the type of forces that would make the threads of this size fail even at 1” but I like a little safety factor lol

I'm no expert on threads but from what I've learned the first 6 threads hold all the force in tension. So any further thread engagement imo is meaningless regardless of bolt size or thread pitch. For rough estimation I assume you can also use a bolt's nut length to determine minimum thread engagement for that bolt, or also the rule of thumb of 1x the bolt's nominal diameter. I think they make the majority of standard sized nuts with 6 threads or at least that's what makes the most sense to me if my info is true. Just some info I've found interesting, I think you're on the right track.

 

[aemravan]

I'm no expert on threads but from what I've learned the first 6 threads hold all the force in tension. So any further thread engagement imo is meaningless regardless of bolt size or thread pitch. For rough estimation I assume you can also use a bolt's nut length to determine minimum thread engagement for that bolt, or also the rule of thumb of 1x the bolt's nominal diameter. I think they make the majority of standard sized nuts with 6 threads or at least that's what makes the most sense to me if my info is true. Just some info I've found interesting, I think you're on the right track.

That is a very good point. The lock nut for the tie rod on the m22 x 1.5 thread is only 1/2" thick. Now granted one could argue the lock nut is only used to keep the combo from turning, but to your point.. if you were to use this size nut/bolt combo to actually fasten something together, the nut is still 1/2" thick and regardless of how many threads the bolt has ends up being your lowest common denominator. I'll feel plenty good with anywhere from 3/4-1" engagement just for peace of mind


On another note.. I went down another rabbit hole this week.. again.. with the future of the rig and the hole LT vs SAS.. anddd I'm back to the LT camp, probably for good this time. After weighing my options and just thinking about the shear amount of work it would take to throw in a solid axle (especially considering the drivability I would be giving up) and it just seems like if I end up doing anything, a bolt-in LT is the way to go.. especially after I get the LC200 rack in.. which seems to be the most involved part of the RCLT HD kit install..so needless to say I'm patiently following the progress on your kit

 

[Inv4drZm]

That is a very good point. The lock nut for the tie rod on the m22 x 1.5 thread is only 1/2" thick. Now granted one could argue the lock nut is only used to keep the combo from turning, but to your point.. if you were to use this size nut/bolt combo to actually fasten something together, the nut is still 1/2" thick and regardless of how many threads the bolt has ends up being your lowest common denominator. I'll feel plenty good with anywhere from 3/4-1" engagement just for peace of mind


On another note.. I went down another rabbit hole this week.. again.. with the future of the rig and the hole LT vs SAS.. anddd I'm back to the LT camp, probably for good this time. After weighing my options and just thinking about the shear amount of work it would take to throw in a solid axle (especially considering the drivability I would be giving up) and it just seems like if I end up doing anything, a bolt-in LT is the way to go.. especially after I get the LC200 rack in.. which seems to be the most involved part of the RCLT HD kit install..so needless to say I'm patiently following the progress on your kit

I used to go back and forth on that argument too though I never actually figured up the cost of a SAS. I always guessed it would be close to 10k if done myself but it could probably be done cheaper if sourcing the right junkyard axle and not going crazy with the steering system. That and getting a good amount of uptravel with the V8 seemed tricky. Now that IFS has 'advanced' to withstand 37s and 40s it seems more cost and time effective.

That said converting my baby Tundra to a solid front axle would be neat.

 

[aemravan]

I used to go back and forth on that argument too though I never actually figured up the cost of a SAS. I always guessed it would be close to 10k if done myself but it could probably be done cheaper if sourcing the right junkyard axle and not going crazy with the steering system. That and getting a good amount of uptravel with the V8 seemed tricky. Now that IFS has 'advanced' to withstand 37s and 40s it seems more cost and time effective.

That said converting my baby Tundra to a solid front axle would be neat.

I have priced it out.. and it isn't cheap. Even with $150 junkyard axles.. granted I was looking at doing both front and rear axle swap.. which really makes the most sense if you end up doing the swap if you ask me.. but the cost do to both front and rear with ORI struts (arguably the most expensive shock you could go with, but also keeps your from needing springs..) was a little over $10,000. That is also taking into consideration being able to sell all of the existing parts at a fairly decent price point.. which isn't guaranteed. Pure parts cost was $15,000 without selling any existing parts.