ATF Exchange (using the cooling line)

[Woz1976-MT]

2) why pull the drain plug if you are draining it through the cooler lines?

If you want to be extremely OCD, you need to completely drain the pan first before you start the cooler line method, otherwise as you are adding a couple of quarts to the pan it will be mixing with old fluid still in the pan. Granted you could always use 16-18 quarts during the exchange and it would be negligible about how much original fluid was still in the whole system, but some of us tend to be a bit more OCD.

If you are measuring very carefully (and you're certain your A/T fluid was at the proper level before beginning), you don't need to mess with the fill bolt on the side of the transmission. Keep in mind that when you put everything back together and do the fluid level check and you don't get any fluid running out, you either have to disconnect the cooler lines to add fluid or use the fill bolt.

I would say try it your way, but just be fully prepared to remove the fill bolt just in case. It never hurts to be prepared for any contingencies.

 

[Silver4RunnerIS300]

If you want to be extremely OCD, you need to completely drain the pan first before you start the cooler line method, otherwise as you are adding a couple of quarts to the pan it will be mixing with old fluid still in the pan. Granted you could always use 16-18 quarts during the exchange and it would be negligible about how much original fluid was still in the whole system, but some of us tend to be a bit more OCD.

If you are measuring very carefully (and you're certain your A/T fluid was at the proper level before beginning), you don't need to mess with the fill bolt on the side of the transmission. Keep in mind that when you put everything back together and do the fluid level check and you don't get any fluid running out, you either have to disconnect the cooler lines to add fluid or use the fill bolt.

I would say try it your way, but just be fully prepared to remove the fill bolt just in case. It never hurts to be prepared for any contingencies.

I understand. I've already done it so this is all after the fact. I didn't remove the fill plug and when I did my temp check I needed to add fluid but used the radiator to add fluid. Just another method for anyone to consider. I used approximately 14 qts of fluid and had red fluid coming out afterwards.

 

[Morphyne]

I just did this the other night. If you have the external cooler, it's right out in the open in front of the radiator when you raise the hood. I just took off the short rubber hose between the upper cooler output port and the steel line going back to the transmission. I then connected a piece of plastic hose to the cooler output and ran that into an old oil jug conveniently marked off in quarts. I connected another plastic hose from my cheap HF hand pump to the steel line going to the transmission. Took about 15 sec/qt to pump the fluid in. Much easier than laying under the truck pumping into the fill port.

I cycled about 2 qts out at a time and replaced them until I was done. Then I added about .5 qt extra and did the final level check and tweak at temperature. The whole process took about an hour, and 20 minutes of that were waiting for the tranny to come up to temp so I could check the level.

Did you run the truck to get the old fluid out and then turn it off to put new fluid into the line?

 

[RonJR]

Did you run the truck to get the old fluid out and then turn it off to put new fluid into the line?

Yes. I was doing it by myself and that was the only sane way to do it. The transmission pumps the fluid out fairly rapidly, probably a quart in less than 10 seconds. It would have gotten pretty hectic trying to keep up without having someone inside the vehicle able to shut down if necessary.

 

[jfry008]

Too much room for error. There's also many party that made it safely over what is now know as the Donner Pass in the early days without resorting to eating each other before eventually dying of starvation and hypothermia.

Point is there's to little control. Meaning ambient temps, area scanned, oil cooler valve position, idling time, etc.

A seemingly small error will/could equall a big time "extremely bad day"

So once again, why not do it right? Do you really trust with applied intellect that "a member here" knows better than than Toyota or those Asian (excuse my spelling here I'm not going to look the company up at this moment but you know which manufacturer I mean, or should) guy who made the transmission.

One more "overly cautious nerdy thing" I'll add to dissuade the unwitting from take this (I'd like to use a different adjective here but out civility I'll refrain) iffy, hip shortcut is:

Other than downright abuse (such as overheating, poor fluid change practice: i.e.initroducing girt or foreign grime or wrong fluid, etc.) that I can recall being reported WOULD BE IMPROPER FLUID LEVEL. And there be a hell of a lot more of those again as I recall than "a member" reporting that his reading matched? Did he (excuse me could very well be a she?) ever state if and how his infer red thermometer was calibrated? For that matter is this trusted member still a member? Is the transmission "a member" serviced still going?

Of course this is just my opinion and would be my advice to the inexpienced and unwitting. But, what the hell next time I do I might use another meathod I've seen on here over at taco world. That being to drive it around the block a few times in order to warm it up and let it idle for a few minutes or some such bull. But I'll be sure to double check with my wiggle board or crystal ball too make certain is safe to proceed so I don't mess up. Lol...

So you're saying + or - 5 degrees is going to cause enough fluid expansion/contraction to cause the level to be severely out of spec?
I'm all for doing things by the FSM but I don't think the level will be that far off.

What is this oil cooler valve you speak of?

 

[Bob22222]

So you're saying + or - 5 degrees is going to cause enough fluid expansion/contraction to cause the level to be severely out of spec?
I'm all for doing things by the FSM but I don't think the level will be that far off.

What is this oil cooler valve you speak of?

YES a 10 degree temperature swing makes a diffeance a a fluids volume. Basic physics.

You do understand how a traditional glass thermometer works correct?

I beieve there is a thermal valving and systems using secondary oil coolers but I could be wrong there.

You are aware how critical these systems are to fluid levels and foreign gook, correct?

I will research the oil cooler thing and ask for others to join in.

 

[delucat2]

2003 v8 4x4
I rely on vac'ing a gallon out the dipstick and adding a gallon every 20,000 miles (did this for the 3rd time at 205k). Bought at 165,000, now with 217,000. Fluid now looks bright and cleat and shifts are tighter than tight.

Do this with my 2006 accord v6 which are notorious for dropping transmissions. Simple drain and fill every 3rd oil change. That one only gets out about 2.5 qts each time.

Using WM synthetic.

 

[Morphyne]

I am planning on doing this on my wife's GX this weekend. I did it 6 months ago but the tranny has been acting a little squirly. I will have help so i am going to attempt to pour in a gallon of ATF as a Gallon would out. using an appropriately sized funnel and the accessible lines on the external cooler in the front. should be fun.

 

[RonJR]

YES a 10 degree temperature swing makes a diffeance a a fluids volume. Basic physics.

You do understand how a traditional glass thermometer works correct?

I beieve there is a thermal valving and systems using secondary oil coolers but I could be wrong there.

You are aware how critical these systems are to fluid levels and foreign gook, correct?

I will research the oil cooler thing and ask for others to join in.

The volumetric coefficient of expansion of oil is about .04%/degF. So, 10 degrees F for 12 quarts amounts to .0004*12*10=.048 qts = 1.5 fluid oz.

To put that in perspective, that amounts to about .02" of depth in the pan. If your vehicle is more than .5" out of level side to side it will cause a greater error than that at the overflow tube.

Bottom line, don't over think this too much.

 

[Bob22222]

The volumetric coefficient of expansion of oil is about .04%/degF. So, 10 degrees F for 12 quarts amounts to .0004*12*10=.048 qts = 1.5 fluid oz.

To put that in perspective, that amounts to about .02" of depth in the pan. If your vehicle is more than .5" out of level side to side it will cause a greater error than that at the overflow tube.

Bottom line, don't over think this too much.

Two small errors often add up to one larger error. Let's say your vehicle is out of level add that to the temp being off and what if your idea of a trickle is off as well. If you let small things that you chose to believe don't matter they can add up to big things that matter big time. You might want to ask the family members who lost their loved ones in the spac shuttle debacle if "little" things dont matter. I think the purpose to these forums is to point out the context procedures rather than suggesting risky shorcuts. I prefer pto overthink if that what you want to call it. You can take any iffy short cuts you choose meanwhile Ill be glad your not working on any of my projects or equipment. I don't believe anything can be over-thought by anyone with half a brain. Comon sense dictates that the concept of overthinking is for the lazy or those who are not capable of reaching a sound judgement.
Funny you find doing things correctly wrong. Once again a memeber here knows much more Toyota engeenering.

 

[RonJR]

I'm well aware that a succession of little errors can add up to a big one. I'm also well aware that the combination of a series of measurements is only as good as the worst one. It's like measuring the length of your house, say it's about 60 feet long. You pull out your 50' tape accurately marked off in 1/8" increments and carefully note where it ends. Then, since it was too short, you step off the remaining 10 feet and estimate 3 feet per step and add that to your precision 50'. How accurate is your overall measurement? Certainly nowhere near +/- 1/8".

My point is, Toyota hasn't given us a measurement method that is much better than +/- 3 fluid ounces even if the temperature was perfect. They don't define a stream vs. a trickle. They don't specify how level is level. (you need +/- .25 degrees to get within 2 fl oz - do you even have a level you know is that good to verify that the pan is level?) They allow a 15 deg variation in fluid temperature. They specify two different temperature ranges for the same transmission based on model year. The only conclusion I can draw from all of this is that they're not really all that worried about a couple of ounces one way or the other, or they would have specified a better technique for measuring it.

Maybe "overthinking" was the wrong term, because for sure that's what I've done More accurately, I should have said don't fixate on one aspect of this and forget about all of the other error sources that pretty much make a few degrees of temperature error moot.

 

[Morphyne]

I am planning on doing this on my wife's GX this weekend. I did it 6 months ago but the tranny has been acting a little squirly. I will have help so i am going to attempt to pour in a gallon of ATF as a Gallon would out. using an appropriately sized funnel and the accessible lines on the external cooler in the front. should be fun.

So I did this today. The filling was way slower than the pumping so I did 2 quarts out 2 quarts in. Really easy if you have an external oil cooler but it takes about 5 min a quart to fill.

 

[RonJR]

So I did this today. The filling was way slower than the pumping so I did 2 quarts out 2 quarts in. Really easy if you have an external oil cooler but it takes about 5 min a quart to fill.

Yeah, about 5 minutes/qt was what I experienced as well using gravity and a funnel. The Harbor Freight hand pump reduced that to about 15 seconds, so much quicker.

 

[bucknasty07]

Wanting to do this with my t4r with 154k on it. Thanks for this write up it'll help a lot!

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

[Darwalk]

Just did this yesterday evening. I was a little freaked out at the end though, as I had put 12 qt in to the transmission and did the idle and check the overflow deal. Problem was that nothing was coming out. I added another 1/2 qt and did it again.....still nothing. I added another 1/2 qt (up to 13 qt) and nothing. It was then I started looking for small leaks somewhere, and if I made sure that everything was tightened back down. I put another 1/2 qt in and FINALLY it was slowly streaming out. Got it to a trickle and tightened it all back up. About an hour later I remembered that I had added a large transmission cooler about 8 months ago because I tow a travel trailer.....that thing holds a lot of fluid!
Needless to say, it went well and I appreciate this board yet again!

 

[jambone]

Performed this service earlier today - thanks for the initial write-up. I had the torque converter shudder (a.k.a. "rumble-strip") noise pretty bad recently. Seems to be improved today after the ATF change. I've only put 10-12 miles on it. Hopefully it will get better after a few more miles.

A few notes... using the output from the top of the transmission cooler (on my 2006 V8 SR5 4WD anyway) was easier than what is shown in the original post. You don't have to remove the front skid plate - just pop open the hood and disconnect the line on top of the cooler. In the photo below, it's just below the middle of the 2 horns:

Also, if using the cheapo hand-pump from O'Reilly's that screw on to the ATF bottles, be sure to check the pickup tube after each bottle. I had it fall off in the middle of 1 bottle.

 

[4by4runr]

Performed this service earlier today - thanks for the initial write-up. I had the torque converter shudder (a.k.a. "rumble-strip") noise pretty bad recently. Seems to be improved today after the ATF change. I've only put 10-12 miles on it. Hopefully it will get better after a few more miles.

A few notes... using the output from the top of the transmission cooler (on my 2006 V8 SR5 4WD anyway) was easier than what is shown in the original post. You don't have to remove the front skid plate - just pop open the hood and disconnect the line on top of the cooler. In the photo below, it's just below the middle of the 2 horns:

Also, if using the cheapo hand-pump from O'Reilly's that screw on to the ATF bottles, be sure to check the pickup tube after each bottle. I had it fall off in the middle of 1 bottle.

Since I just did this yesterday I will add that the top of the tranny cooler is the output aka return side so the two stems that they attach to are: top stem= refill here, bottom stem=catch from here. Both are 3/8" od fittings so you need 3/8 Id hose or 3/8 od hose with double barbed male connector. Or as a just in case you can't get the clamp off one of the stems because it was put on facing the engine...�� Buy a foot of 3/8 od to stick inside the existing line.

Also found that the performance tool liquid dispenser (soap pump style) fits the ws bottles perfectly, but I also used a quart funnel with a tube attached to the return which worked great albeit slow.

I used the obd/enginelink app to confirm temp for fill along with the jumper which read 104 at the time of opening the overflow. . If you have an iPhone and want to do this via obd click this: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/241807-solved-2004-v8-iphone-obd-transmission-temp-monitoring.html#post2760468

 

[MedicBob]

Did this twice in 2 days. Worked well and pretty clean. 12 out 13 in and checked once up to temp per the dash.

 

[waypoint]

I just finished doing a fluid exchange on my '07 4Runner, just over 11 quarts pumped before the exit fluid was cherry-red. Didn't drop the skid plate or use the big fill plug.

I removed the trans cooler line from the upper-driver side of the radiator, attached my pump hose to the radiator nipple and connected my clear exit line to the truck's rubber hose. I stuck with Toyota WS fluid thanks to military veteran discount at the dealer.

1.) Drained the pan, measured just over 3.5 quarts dumped. Put the drain pan back in place and re-removed the drain plug.

2.) Pumped fluid in through the trans cooler to flush the cooler and return circuit. It took nearly 2 quarts before the pan drain was showing clean fluid discharging, but it's good knowing the return circuit is flushed clean.

3.) I then re-installed the pan drain plug w/ new crush washer and pumped in the 3.5 quarts that had been drained.

4.) Had my daughter start the truck while I watched the catch jug (empty 5 quart oil jug with visible sight, very handy for this job) and shut off at 2 quarts.

5.) Pump 2 quarts in through the trans cooler. Repeat. Empty the catch jug. Repeat until cherry-red fluid is pumping out the exit hose.

6.) Remove the pump and drain hoses, re-connect the trans hose to the radiator fitting.

7.) Started the truck with my scanner attached and viewing both transmission pan and torque converter temps, clicked it to Reverse, Neutral, and Drive for a few minutes each. When temp reached 122degF on the scanner, shutdown and removed the level plug...about 2 cups of fluid ran out. Reinstalled the level plug with new crush washer, test drive OK, check for leaks and all is well.

The old fluid was likely factory and had 164K miles on the odometer, it was brown but didn't smell burnt. Truck shifted fine before the fluid change so I don't really expect to notice any improvement, just preventive maintenance.

 

[Civiceg94]

I just finished doing a fluid exchange on my '07 4Runner, just over 11 quarts pumped before the exit fluid was cherry-red. Didn't drop the skid plate or use the big fill plug.

I removed the trans cooler line from the upper-driver side of the radiator, attached my pump hose to the radiator nipple and connected my clear exit line to the truck's rubber hose. I stuck with Toyota WS fluid thanks to military veteran discount at the dealer.

1.) Drained the pan, measured just over 3.5 quarts dumped. Put the drain pan back in place and re-removed the drain plug.

2.) Pumped fluid in through the trans cooler to flush the cooler and return circuit. It took nearly 2 quarts before the pan drain was showing clean fluid discharging, but it's good knowing the return circuit is flushed clean.

3.) I then re-installed the pan drain plug w/ new crush washer and pumped in the 3.5 quarts that had been drained.

4.) Had my daughter start the truck while I watched the catch jug (empty 5 quart oil jug with visible sight, very handy for this job) and shut off at 2 quarts.

5.) Pump 2 quarts in through the trans cooler. Repeat. Empty the catch jug. Repeat until cherry-red fluid is pumping out the exit hose.

6.) Remove the pump and drain hoses, re-connect the trans hose to the radiator fitting.

7.) Started the truck with my scanner attached and viewing both transmission pan and torque converter temps, clicked it to Reverse, Neutral, and Drive for a few minutes each. When temp reached 122degF on the scanner, shutdown and removed the level plug...about 2 cups of fluid ran out. Reinstalled the level plug with new crush washer, test drive OK, check for leaks and all is well.

The old fluid was likely factory and had 164K miles on the odometer, it was brown but didn't smell burnt. Truck shifted fine before the fluid change so I don't really expect to notice any improvement, just preventive maintenance.

From my understanding you were suppose to check the level plug with the engine running and not shut off. With the engine off fluid level gets higher which is why you got 2 cups of fluid come out. Someone correct me if am wrong