ATF Exchange (using the cooling line)

[firebirdguy]

So what's the point of draining from the drain plug if the subsequent fluid is then being drained from a transmission cooler line? Am I missing out on something if I only drain 2 qts from cooler line and then refill 2 qts until clean fluid comes out?

Also, what's wrong with filling via trans cooler lines? Seems a few have done it.

the point is because you want to get the old fluid thats in the pan out first & replace with the same amount of new fluid, that way your not pumping ~3.5 qts of old fluid into the trans when you start the draining of ~2qts out the lines. what comes out of the line when starting the engine comes from inside the trans & torque converter so starting with a pan full of new fluid gets you that much further ahead of the game.

filling via the cooler lines you are fighting pushing fluid through the narrow long lines, using the trans fill hole on the side of the trans as its designed for is a straight shot into the trans. using gravity to do it via a funnel & 3/8 tube is the easiest & fastest way to refill the fluid, aside from using an electric pump. there was one guy on here that used the cooler lines & said it took almost an hour to let gravity push the fluid through the lines. theres just no reason to do it that way compared to the fill hole in the trans.

 

[Tironeous]

the point is because you want to get the old fluid thats in the pan out first & replace with the same amount of new fluid, that way your not pumping ~3.5 qts of old fluid into the trans when you start the draining of ~2qts out the lines. what comes out of the line when starting the engine comes from inside the trans & torque converter so starting with a pan full of new fluid gets you that much further ahead of the game.

That makes sense. I knew there was a good reason for doing it this way. Just wanted to understand what the reason was. Thank you.


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[jktobin]

This was really helpful, thank you!

 

[Tironeous]

2005 V8 146k miles

Okay finally did this yesterday. Here are my steps below. Thanks to the OP and others who have shared!

Drained pan via drain plug - a little over 3Qts came out. It was black and I suspect it’s never been replaced (pic 1).

Refilled what came out via fill plug with 3/8 tubing and funnel up top (pic 2). The flow was nearly as fast as me pouring it in.

Turned the truck on and drained 2 Qts via transmission cooler into a jug (pics 3 &4). This took about 25 seconds.

Replaced 2 Qts via funnel.

Repeated these steps (2 Qts out / 2 Qts in) until I exchanged a total of 13 Qts. It started to look a lot cleaner towards the end.

I couldn’t get the truck to go into A/T temp check mode. I think it may have been too warm as I had used the truck a few hours prior. When I did the initial pan drain I removed the overflow plug first and a warm stream of fluid came out. I’m going to let it sit and attempt it again when I know it’s a cold start.

If that doesn’t work I’ve ordered an OBD scanner with Bluetooth ($30). I plan on
using the OBD Fusion app ($10) and buying the Toyota add on ($10). It’s probably useful to have one of these anyway.

UPDATE - I attempted to put the truck into A/T Temp check mode again a day later. Well wouldn’t you know it worked like a charm. This leads me to believe it was too warm yesterday.

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[firebirdguy]

2005 V8 146k miles

Okay finally did this yesterday. Here are my steps below. Thanks to the OP and others who have shared!

Drained pan via drain plug - a little over 3Qts came out. It was black and I suspect it’s never been replaced (pic 1).

Refilled what came out via fill plug with 3/8 tubing and funnel up top (pic 2). The flow was nearly as fast as me pouring it in.

Turned the truck on and drained 2 Qts via transmission cooler into a jug (pics 3 &4). This took about 25 seconds.

Replaced 2 Qts via funnel.

Repeated these steps (2 Qts out / 2 Qts in) until I exchanged a total of 13 Qts. It started to look a lot cleaner towards the end.

I couldn’t get the truck to go into A/T temp check mode. I think it may have been too warm as I had used the truck a few hours prior. When I did the initial pan drain I removed the overflow plug first and a warm stream of fluid came out. I’m going to let it sit and attempt it again when I know it’s a cold start.

If that doesn’t work I’ve ordered an OBD scanner with Bluetooth ($30). I plan on
using the OBD Fusion app ($10) and buying the Toyota add on ($10). It’s probably useful to have one of these anyway.

UPDATE - I attempted to put the truck into A/T Temp check mode again a day later. Well wouldn’t you know it worked like a charm. This leads me to believe it was too warm yesterday.

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thanks for posting an update on this & glad it worked out for you the way a couple others & myself explained. you just confirmed what ive been saying on these trans fluid threads, that a funnel & hose into the fill hole using gravity works very fast & is by far the easiest way to fill the fluid, going through the cooler lines or using hand pumps etc makes it way more difficult than needed.

also thanks for using the correct WS fluid & confirming with pics how much fluid comes out on a pan drain on these 4runners & tacomas, it is ~3.5qts when at the correct level, one guy on here insists its 5-6qts & uses T-IV fluid in a WS trans...

that fluid looked pretty dark, your transmission will be very happy for another 60-100k miles depending on useage. :thumb3:

 

[Tironeous]

The hardest part of filling it was getting a socket on the drain plug. After that was removed it was smooth sailing!

The guy using the wrong fluid needs to read his owners manual. Though I’m pretty sure it’s Type IV if you have a dipstick and WS if it’s sealed. The owners manual is the best source of truth.

Also, I don’t mind paying for WS. I know a lot of guys say they use Maxlife, but I’m happy to pay a little more for OEM fluid. I figure I saved enough by doing this myself.

It shifts buttery smooth and now I don’t have to worry about it for another 50k miles minimum.


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[ktom3001]

I've done a lot of drain and fills over the 240K miles but probably due for one and I'm sick of paying for WS.
I know a lot of folks are using Valvoline Maxlife, anyone had any issues? I'm not looking for naysayer holier than thou WS $12/quart lover feedback.
Has anyone had problems with Maxlife or alternatively you can get Aisin WS on Rock Auto, anyone tried that fluid?

 

[Tironeous]

I've done a lot of drain and fills over the 240K miles but probably due for one and I'm sick of paying for WS.
I know a lot of folks are using Valvoline Maxlife, anyone had any issues? I'm not looking for naysayer holier than thou WS $12/quart lover feedback.
Has anyone had problems with Maxlife or alternatively you can get Aisin WS on Rock Auto, anyone tried that fluid?

Before doing this myself I read a lot of posts. Seems like plenty of guys are running Maxlife without issues.

Btw, I got WS for $8 per quart at the dealer, which is still quite a bit more than Maxlife, but far less that $12. 00289ATFWS - Toyota Genuine Toyota Automatic Transmission Fluid-WS. ATF – WS | Maita Toyota, Sacramento CA


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[CarlosV]

MaxLife

I've done a lot of drain and fills over the 240K miles but probably due for one and I'm sick of paying for WS.
I know a lot of folks are using Valvoline Maxlife, anyone had any issues? I'm not looking for naysayer holier than thou WS $12/quart lover feedback.
Has anyone had problems with Maxlife or alternatively you can get Aisin WS on Rock Auto, anyone tried that fluid?

Drained and filled my 2003 V6 340AT with Valv. Maxlife.
It was perfect before that and still is 10K later.

 

[Drcoffee]

I change motor oil every 10,000 miles using mobil 1. Considering the cost of a new transmission and fluid change just once every 100,000 miles. I see no reason to go cheap on ATF. If I dont use toyota WS, I use Amsoil synthetic which costs $130/10 qt jug. Synthetic doesnt gel in cold weather and holds up to heat better without degrading. Yes max life is cheaper and good ATF, but is it the best for your truck?

 

[firebirdguy]

I've done a lot of drain and fills over the 240K miles but probably due for one and I'm sick of paying for WS.
I know a lot of folks are using Valvoline Maxlife, anyone had any issues? I'm not looking for naysayer holier than thou WS $12/quart lover feedback.
Has anyone had problems with Maxlife or alternatively you can get Aisin WS on Rock Auto, anyone tried that fluid?

i used maxlife for a full exchange & it is working perfect, did a lot of research on it & after seeing tons of peopel on here & other forums use it with no issue & trusting valvoline to provide a high quality product i have no reservations using it. its just as good as any other universal synthetic trans fluid like amsoil or other brands.

instantly noticed smoother shifts over the original WS at 145k miles. it was pretty dark when it came out but shifted ok, the max life is excellent fluid & fully rated for WS use. nothing wrong with using toyota WS, the important thing is to get new fluid in there once you hit ~100k miles. the owners manual says 60k if towed or abused which would mean off roading, hot mountain areas or just driven harder than normal, some guys with the v8's drive them like they are corvettes!

save yourself some money & use the maxlife.. plus its full synthetic & will probably last longer under abuse than WS. theres a long article out there about WS not doing good under heat & that its not synthetic.

 

[ktom3001]

i used maxlife for a full exchange & it is working perfect, did a lot of research on it & after seeing tons of peopel on here & other forums use it with no issue & trusting valvoline to provide a high quality product i have no reservations using it. its just as good as any other universal synthetic trans fluid like amsoil or other brands.

instantly noticed smoother shifts over the original WS at 145k miles. it was pretty dark when it came out but shifted ok, the max life is excellent fluid & fully rated for WS use. nothing wrong with using toyota WS, the important thing is to get new fluid in there once you hit ~100k miles. the owners manual says 60k if towed or abused which would mean off roading, hot mountain areas or just driven harder than normal, some guys with the v8's drive them like they are corvettes!

save yourself some money & use the maxlife.. plus its full synthetic & will probably last longer under abuse than WS. theres a long article out there about WS not doing good under heat & that its not synthetic.

That's great feed back. Maxlife is $17/5 quarts at Walmart so that's like $3.40/quart VS $8-$12 for Toyota WS which probably comes from same factory as Aisin WS at $6/quart. For $3.40/quart I could cycle it through 2x as often. I'm sure Maxlife (WS approved) at 50K miles is better than WS at 100K

 

[ktom3001]

I change motor oil every 10,000 miles using mobil 1. Considering the cost of a new transmission and fluid change just once every 100,000 miles. I see no reason to go cheap on ATF. If I dont use toyota WS, I use Amsoil synthetic which costs $130/10 qt jug. Synthetic doesnt gel in cold weather and holds up to heat better without degrading. Yes max life is cheaper and good ATF, but is it the best for your truck?

I sort of follow your logic but I don't push to those intervals, more like engine oil at 7K and Tranny drain/fills at 30-40K.

 

[Ace5477]

For what's it's worth, both the mechanics at the place I use that work on Toyota's all the time said that Max Life is a better fluid, and they both run Max Life in their Toyota's. That was the deciding factor for me after reading extensively on the internet. Let's face it, all of us on this forum are way ahead of 95% of the general public on our maintenance! If we are agonizing over which transmission fluid to use, we're on the right track!

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[sundance21]

Long time Toyota owner. Many different Toyota vehicles over the years. Been working on cars since I was old enough to drive. Recent multi Tundra Highlander, and Sequoia.

Never use any Transmission Fluid besides what Toyota says. It is not worth it. There is a reason Toyota is the most reliable car/truck brand on the market. Listen to them.

Aisin has long manufactured transmissions for Toyota. Aisin makes the best transmissions anywhere. They also brand WS fluid. Which is much cheaper than Toyota branded WS fluid. You can get it from Rock Auto for a little over $6 a quart.

The writeup in this thread was no doubt inspired from some of the very early write ups from various Tundra owners running the new seal transmissions and towing. It is basically the same process. I found it since I just bought my first used 4 runner.

You can also take the approach of draining and filling the pan basically 6 times. Drain the pan. Add back the amount you drained. Run the vehicle for 30 seconds. Repeat. You pulling new fluid through the system all the way till it returns. The newer service manuals have this procedure for various sealed WS transmissions. Just my penny.

 

[firebirdguy]

Long time Toyota owner. Many different Toyota vehicles over the years. Been working on cars since I was old enough to drive. Recent multi Tundra Highlander, and Sequoia.

Never use any Transmission Fluid besides what Toyota says. It is not worth it. There is a reason Toyota is the most reliable car/truck brand on the market. Listen to them.

Aisin has long manufactured transmissions for Toyota. Aisin makes the best transmissions anywhere. They also brand WS fluid. Which is much cheaper than Toyota branded WS fluid. You can get it from Rock Auto for a little over $6 a quart.

The writeup in this thread was no doubt inspired from some of the very early write ups from various Tundra owners running the new seal transmissions and towing. It is basically the same process. I found it since I just bought my first used 4 runner.

You can also take the approach of draining and filling the pan basically 6 times. Drain the pan. Add back the amount you drained. Run the vehicle for 30 seconds. Repeat. You pulling new fluid through the system all the way till it returns. The newer service manuals have this procedure for various sealed WS transmissions. Just my penny.

good advice in general... but any modern trans fluid RATED for WS is perfectly fine to use in these transmissions. when toyota says to not use any OTHER fluid, that was mostly back when the universal fluids werent made or popular yet, they mean to not use another type of fluid like T-IV or dex/merc etc etc.

any brand of ATF rated for WS use is perfectly fine, aisin, maxlife, amsoil etc etc.. if they are rated for WS use they are 100% compatible to mix with or replace WS, & most of them like maxlife & amsoil etc are full synthetic & are a better quality fluid than toyotas WS.

just my 2 pennies

 

[sundance21]

good advice in general... but any modern trans fluid RATED for WS is perfectly fine to use in these transmissions. when toyota says to not use any OTHER fluid, that was mostly back when the universal fluids werent made or popular yet, they mean to not use another type of fluid like T-IV or dex/merc etc etc.

any brand of ATF rated for WS use is perfectly fine, aisin, maxlife, amsoil etc etc.. if they are rated for WS use they are 100% compatible to mix with or replace WS, & most of them like maxlife & amsoil etc are full synthetic & are a better quality fluid than toyotas WS.

just my 2 pennies

I mostly agree. I'm good with using alternative WS fluid. I'm not okay with using a universal fluid that is supposedly manufactured to multiple specs. Which is why I recommend using Aisin's WS ATF. There are few others making WS standard fluid now. I'm sure they're fine too. Just hard to me to believe there is some universal ATF out there that works with any transmission. Thanks

 

[firebirdguy]

I mostly agree. I'm good with using alternative WS fluid. I'm not okay with using a universal fluid that is supposedly manufactured to multiple specs. Which is why I recommend using Aisin's WS ATF. There are few others making WS standard fluid now. I'm sure they're fine too. Just hard to me to believe there is some universal ATF out there that works with any transmission. Thanks

the universal fluids dont work with "any" transmission, they work with the fluids stated on the bottle that they are compatible with & rated for.

ATF isnt rocket surgery, its just hydraulic fluid with some cleaning additives & big companies like valvoline (ashland), amsoil, mobil etc etc engineer their modern ATF's top meet or exceed many different brands specs. WS is nothing special, its just a lower viscosity ATF, any modern company can make a fluid that meets the specs & is 100% ok to mix or use with WS & many other types.

ive been using maxlife in toyota & honda & GM vehicles for well over 10 years with zero issues & usually improved performance/life spans. & i know of many reputable mechanics that specialize in toyotas & many other makes that use & recommend it once its time to replace the factory fluid.

here is the article about WS fluid i mentioned in another post above if anyone cares to read it, kinda long but it has lots of good info in it that states many facts as well as reasonable ideas & reasons why WS is not that good of a fluid. its not synthetic & just like oil it doesnt stand up to heat & abuse as good as modern synthetics & it is NOT lifetime like some believe based on toyotas advertised claims yet buried in the owners manual they tell you to change it at 60-100k miles. after over a decade of using maxlife & reading all the positive reviews on it & other atf's like amsoil i am confident there is no harm using it over WS... & probably quite a few benefits.

WS transmission fluid is garbage . Get it out of your transmission now | Tacoma World

 

[sundance21]

the universal fluids dont work with "any" transmission, they work with the fluids stated on the bottle that they are compatible with & rated for.

BS. There is no such thing.

ATF isnt rocket surgery, its just hydraulic fluid with some cleaning additives & big companies like valvoline (ashland), amsoil, mobil etc etc engineer their modern ATF's top meet or exceed many different brands specs.

BS. That is their marketing hype. They make those claims and never pay when something does happen. There isn't a fluid that will work for Ford, Dodge, and Toyota all at the same time with the same outcome. Yet, that is exactly what they claim. Which is contrary to common sense and an outright lie.

WS is nothing special, its just a lower viscosity ATF, any modern company can make a fluid that meets the specs & is 100% ok to mix or use with WS & many other types.

BS. I know your issue. You just want to feel good about what you've done. Keep believe it. Don't let me get in the way. However, Toyota is the one carrying the warranty cost. Toyota is the one with the reputation. Not Dodge. Not Ford.

ive been using maxlife in toyota & honda & GM vehicles for well over 10 years with zero issues & usually improved performance/life spans. & i know of many reputable mechanics that specialize in toyotas & many other makes that use & recommend it once its time to replace the factory fluid.

Yeah. That's why you write in all lower case letters.... because you're so smart and you really KNOW so much. I don't believe you. I don't know of a single reputable Toyota mechanic that would recommend you not use WS fluid in a Toyota transmission. Not a single one.

here is the article about WS fluid i mentioned in another post above if anyone cares to read it, kinda long but it has lots of good info in it that states many facts as well as reasonable ideas & reasons why WS is not that good of a fluid. its not synthetic & just like oil it doesnt stand up to heat & abuse as good as modern synthetics & it is NOT lifetime like some believe based on toyotas advertised claims yet buried in the owners manual they tell you to change it at 60-100k miles. after over a decade of using maxlife & reading all the positive reviews on it & other atf's like amsoil i am confident there is no harm using it over WS... & probably quite a few benefits.

WS transmission fluid is garbage . Get it out of your transmission now | Tacoma World

Yeah. Toyota should start using Maxlife in their transmission tomorrow. Its SO.... good. That article is ridiculous. Toyota has been using WS since the early 2000s. Their transmission reputation is the best in the industry.

Do what you want to do but trying to say Maxlife is good for every transmission they claim it is good for is entirely ridiculous. I'll keep using WS in Toyotas. I have 2005 4-runner with 201,000 miles on WS. I'll wait for you to catch up.

 

[bear1998]

BS. There is no such thing.



BS. That is their marketing hype. They make those claims and never pay when something does happen. There isn't a fluid that will work for Ford, Dodge, and Toyota all at the same time with the same outcome. Yet, that is exactly what they claim. Which is contrary to common sense and an outright lie.



BS. I know your issue. You just want to feel good about what you've done. Keep believe it. Don't let me get in the way. However, Toyota is the one carrying the warranty cost. Toyota is the one with the reputation. Not Dodge. Not Ford.



Yeah. That's why you write in all lower case letters.... because you're so smart and you really KNOW so much. I don't believe you. I don't know of a single reputable Toyota mechanic that would recommend you not use WS fluid in a Toyota transmission. Not a single one.



Yeah. Toyota should start using Maxlife in their transmission tomorrow. Its SO.... good. That article is ridiculous. Toyota has been using WS since the early 2000s. Their transmission reputation is the best in the industry.

Do what you want to do but trying to say Maxlife is good for every transmission they claim it is good for is entirely ridiculous. I'll keep using WS in Toyotas. I have 2005 4-runner with 201,000 miles on WS. I'll wait for you to catch up.

Keep drinkin the kool-aid.......