Can someone post up the details on the wiring for the E90 BMW swap of the front seats? I don't get on this board much and was hunting around for information. I have the E90 seats in my 86 FJ60 and the passenger side works fine, but the driver side apparently has the issue of "timing-out or falling asleep", I see some mention here about feeding some wires 5v , but unless I missed it, I don't see details? Which specific wires were feed 5v and what voltage converter was used. In testing the driver seat works fine when powered off a regulated power supply (ground and postive connected direct to it) but when connected up to the blue sea fuse box I get nothing on the drivers seat and yet the passenger seat functions fine....I've tested everything and no known errors, so I have to think its this time delay thing. I was not aware of the time delay, until recently as my truck has sat for some time with the seats installed, but I never got around to running down the wiring problem until the other day. Post up details of the wiring solution on the E90 seats.... Thanks
BMW E90 3-series Seat Swap
- Thread starter Spktyr
- Start date
Running into the same issue. I haven’t installed it in my 4Runner yet but I bypassed by putting a switch in that I am going to drill and install in the plastic trim on the driver seat.
Flip the switch on for power and off when you don’t need it.
Obviously I would prefer it more OEM but I couldn’t figure it out. I wired the KCAN wiring up with the 5v but it didn’t fix it like I read it would.
I don' t know the specific wire references off hand, but I'm feeding power to the two larger pos wire and using the two neg wires only. So essentially two pos wires and two negatives, for each seat. Are you guys running a 30amp toogle in line on the two power wires or what? to provide on/off power source. or presumbly a relay.
lowlinkin
New member
Ok, so i found out that the seats i got were E-38 seats and not E-39 seats. That being said they did fit in the truck fairly well. The two mounts toward the center console bolted up without incident. The back leg had to be clocked and trimmed facing out and I had to fabricate the forward outside leg. I'm going to tweak the back feet to see if i can get the seat to sit down a couple of inches lower and hopefully they will be better after that. Will probably end up making those mounts from scratch. They are a good bit taller than my stock seats and right now my head is about 2 inches from the roof and thats without a sunroof!
The biggest pain in the butt was drilling out the mounting legs from the stock seats. I haven't wired them in yet but the wiring for the motors seams to be fairly simple, i just have to figure out what wire for the seat belt and sensors. Ill get some pics up when i get home.
The biggest pain in the butt was drilling out the mounting legs from the stock seats. I haven't wired them in yet but the wiring for the motors seams to be fairly simple, i just have to figure out what wire for the seat belt and sensors. Ill get some pics up when i get home.
Brian.
Member
Just my thoughts on this seat swap. I bought a pair of F30 "base model" seats with their pigtails:
Swapped over the Toyota seatbelt assembly, using a bolt, steel sleeve and bronze bushing to adjust for sizing and spacing. Just stuff I had available in the shop bins, so no clue on sizing.
De-pinned the BMW seatbelt lines and put the plug back in place so everything will still line up and work right with the connector.
Fitting the seats into the 4runner was more frustrating that difficult. The seats are about 1/2" narrower than the 4runner at the rails. But the inside 2 and the front outside all bolted up, thought they clock themselves a little bit. I had to start the bolts and tighten them slowly as they all pulled themselves into place. The outside rear though, needed a new hole:
because it was quite a ways out:
Sadly, this mount doesn't bolt through one of the reinforced areas designed for bolting the seat down. I may revisit this in the future, when it's not so cold and wet outside.
Used 1/4x20 flange bolts, washers on both sides and a few different nuts. Basically, ran a washer to the flange head and then a nut up against that. This fit into the space in the BMW seat so it wouldn't slop around, then through the brackets (Toyota rivets were 1/4", hence my bolt choice) with a washer and lock nut on the bottom.
Still have all of the electronics to deal with. My seats seem to time-out in less than a minute so making adjustments is a pita of stop, connect wires, make adjustment, disconnect wires and drive till I find the need to make another adjustment.
There is a Whole lot more seat travel, especially in the back direction:
even at 6'4", I'm well away from the back stop. Have to get my 5'4" wife into the drivers seat to make sure there's enough Forward range....
They do fit the space well though:
Swapped over the Toyota seatbelt assembly, using a bolt, steel sleeve and bronze bushing to adjust for sizing and spacing. Just stuff I had available in the shop bins, so no clue on sizing.
De-pinned the BMW seatbelt lines and put the plug back in place so everything will still line up and work right with the connector.
Fitting the seats into the 4runner was more frustrating that difficult. The seats are about 1/2" narrower than the 4runner at the rails. But the inside 2 and the front outside all bolted up, thought they clock themselves a little bit. I had to start the bolts and tighten them slowly as they all pulled themselves into place. The outside rear though, needed a new hole:
because it was quite a ways out:
Sadly, this mount doesn't bolt through one of the reinforced areas designed for bolting the seat down. I may revisit this in the future, when it's not so cold and wet outside.
Used 1/4x20 flange bolts, washers on both sides and a few different nuts. Basically, ran a washer to the flange head and then a nut up against that. This fit into the space in the BMW seat so it wouldn't slop around, then through the brackets (Toyota rivets were 1/4", hence my bolt choice) with a washer and lock nut on the bottom.
Still have all of the electronics to deal with. My seats seem to time-out in less than a minute so making adjustments is a pita of stop, connect wires, make adjustment, disconnect wires and drive till I find the need to make another adjustment.
There is a Whole lot more seat travel, especially in the back direction:
even at 6'4", I'm well away from the back stop. Have to get my 5'4" wife into the drivers seat to make sure there's enough Forward range....
They do fit the space well though:
Can you elaborate more on this? I'm not sure what you mean by any of that statement.
Brian.
Member
The BMW car-to-seat connector (above) has different, Seperate, sections within that connector. So the 41/42/43/44 area on the far left is for the seatbelt, it's a white plastic piece with those 4 wires pinned into it and then that housing slides into the holder and clips in place. Remove just that white holder and the Other pieces are free to shift around. So I de-pinned (removed the terminated wires) that piece and then put it back into the holder so it could hold everything else together. Just means it's all lined up right and I didn't just snip the wires and leave them loose.
Hardly necessary in the grand scheme of things, just looking to make my finished install as clean as possible. So I'll eventually remove the Toyota OEM seat wiring and run new wiring to the pigtails of my BMW connectors. I'm also going to remove all the BMW wiring that's not necessary, taking it all down to just the basics.
I had photos of all that stuff at one time, but they seem to have vanished.
The fun part will be sorting out the heated seat function as the 2 seats work differently.
Brian.
Member
I'm not really finding any concise info on getting the seats fully operational, so I'm just going to start dumping info as I find it here. This is the pinout info that's needed, everything else on the wiring is for airbags, seatbelt connection, occupacy sensor, etc..
Drivers:
PIN1, Back width & lumbar power (0.75 MM² wire)
PIN5, K-CAN L (GN);0.35 MM² wire
PIN6, K-CAN H (OR/GN), 0.35 MM² wire
PIN15, Control/memory module power, 2.5 MM² wire
PIN16, Ground, 2.5 MM² wire
Passenger:
PIN1, Back width & lumbar power (0.75 MM² wire)
PIN8, LIN Bus, this control seat heating, 0.35 MM² wire
PIN15, seat heating power, 2.5 MM² wire
PIN16, Ground, 2.5 MM² wire
PIN25, Power of seat adjustment
PIN26, Ground, 2.5 MM² wire
Looking at the drivers seat CAN bus requirements (for keeping that module alive), I'm finding this:
so it Should mean that 5v to PIN5, a green wire, will keep the module alive. I'll test... erm, freezing rain tonight and tomorrow, so maybe this weekend.
Further, it looks like the seat heater for passenger is controlled by PIN8, the LIN bus and variable voltage (no idea of voltage range).
snydmax
New member
Brian.
Member
I'm 6'4" and the headroom issue is something I'm familiar with... I've only driven it a few hundred feet so far and can only say maybe, maybe not. I know I had to have the OEM seat leaned back to fit without hitting my head over bumps and I don't know if these BMW seats are leaned the same. There's more adjustability in the seat Base of the BMW seats (better for shorter people to get up), and if you're a Leggy tall guy these are WAY better for that as the seats go much further back.
I've got to run some errands today that'll cover 80~90 miles so I should get a better feel. I'll see if I can remember to run a tape measurement from the seat to the headliner at a fixed/repeatable point so you can compare.
As you said, the OEM seat is already sitting on the floor for the inside front mount, and that inside rear has precious little room to go (along with being a PITA side-mount), though I can see Inverting the mount (custom made) to drop the rear of the seat an inch or two.
I can't speak for any other brand CAN but GM CAN requires both a high and low voltage for module communication. That might be why the module keeps going into sleep mode. Just a thought.
TonyB66
New member
I guess I posted earlier in this thread...
I have aftermarket seats and I've received quite a few questions about headroom. Unless I missed it, it would be helpful to have some objective measures. As an example, the vertical measurement from the center of the seat cushion (not compressed) to the roof liner or moonroof shade. What is that measurement for the factory seats?
I can check mine again later, but I seem to recall about 36". I might be wrong though...
I'm maybe 5' 10" and have longer legs that all of my taller friends. Some of us are more torso, some more leggy... I'll provide a measurement later.
I have aftermarket seats and I've received quite a few questions about headroom. Unless I missed it, it would be helpful to have some objective measures. As an example, the vertical measurement from the center of the seat cushion (not compressed) to the roof liner or moonroof shade. What is that measurement for the factory seats?
I can check mine again later, but I seem to recall about 36". I might be wrong though...
I'm maybe 5' 10" and have longer legs that all of my taller friends. Some of us are more torso, some more leggy... I'll provide a measurement later.
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Brian.
Member
I opted for 2 measurements, from the bottom side of the frame rails to the top of the seat cushion looked like 7.5" to me (in the center of the seat, the sides are higher). It was hard to do this to my OEM seats as they're run all the way forward on the rails for removal, but it Looked like they were closer to 8".
And then I did dead center of the seat, at the back, to the inside moonroof cover and it looks like 36.5":
From the anecdotal standpoint of my own perception, my head is in the same general location up and down, but I have the seat back leaned more vertical. I can actually sit back and rest my entire back on the seat, which is nice. And since the seats are Taller, there's a useable headrest.
I do think it's possible to drop the back of the seat down with some custom brackets, and I may try my hand at that at some point. Probably only viable if the replacement seat has the ability to lift/tile the base, and these BMW F30 seats do.
And then I did dead center of the seat, at the back, to the inside moonroof cover and it looks like 36.5":
From the anecdotal standpoint of my own perception, my head is in the same general location up and down, but I have the seat back leaned more vertical. I can actually sit back and rest my entire back on the seat, which is nice. And since the seats are Taller, there's a useable headrest.
I do think it's possible to drop the back of the seat down with some custom brackets, and I may try my hand at that at some point. Probably only viable if the replacement seat has the ability to lift/tile the base, and these BMW F30 seats do.
Brian.
Member
I have precious little experience with CAN, being a motorcycle mechanic (who's mostly hung it up), it's just not something I've delt with. That said, the BMW info provided made it seem like applying a constant 5v+ to one and 0v to the other would make it think the system was passive. So, I hacked the end off a USB cord (no one uses Mini B anymore, do they?) to get my 5v signal and just twisted it together with the green CAN wire. End result is that it triggers the seat to wake for a minute or so when the car is started, but Only at that time or if you disconnect and reconnect twice after starting.
So, my off-the-cuff thought is that the seat computer goes to sleep if it's not getting current CAN activity, and a steady voltage isn't going to cut it. Stupid "smart" seat...
The passenger seat, meanwhile, works just like the original seats... constant 12v power and it can adjust anytime. Zero limitations.
So, my thoughts are that I can install a switch to the 12v leads and flick it on when I need to make an adjustment. Sadly, the seats need some time between "on" cycles to keep working and I'm not sure that all the adjustment changes between my wife and I can be done in the short ~1min timeout.
I can try to bypass the seat computer, which will probably be necessary to get the seat heaters working anyway. This loses the memory function of the seat (never had a vehicle with that function, but it'd sure be nice). Right now, this is the direction I'm leaning for "ease" purposes.
Or, I can try to crash-course educate myself on the BMW CAN system, develop a CAN signal device that tricks the seat into thinking everything normal and it's just Imagining that it's now bolted into a Toyota 4runner, in an effort to get the memory and seat heater (which is signaled over the same CAN bus, as near as I can tell) functioning.
Brian.
Member
Another failure for the drivers seat sleep issue for me. Today I got in a dual-output buck converter (takes a voltage and allows you to adjust it down to anything you want). Set one side to .6v and the other to 4.3v and connected them to the CANH and CANL lines as indicated by the BMW manual info. Still only about 10 seconds of seat power before sleep. Pulse one of those low voltage lines a couple times and the seat comes back on for another 10 seconds.
I guess the next step is to pull the seat and see about bypassing the "brain". No seat memory for me, darn it. Gonna have to wait till after New Years though, supposed to be getting ~6 inches of rain in the next 2 days.
I guess the next step is to pull the seat and see about bypassing the "brain". No seat memory for me, darn it. Gonna have to wait till after New Years though, supposed to be getting ~6 inches of rain in the next 2 days.
JohnOfTheJungle
Member
I’ll be following this - I got 2007 X5 seats last year and could not get them to power up at all. Put the project on hold but going to kick it off again soon.
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