bumper build, need input

[mmml4]

I started my bumper and would like some input before I start welding. This will be a bolt on bumper. I am starting with a BudBuilt winch plate. I would like input on the height of the winch plate in relation to the frame rails and on how far it sticks out from the grill. I have looked at a lot of pictures but it is kinda hard for me to tell how close I am to a good location.


I'll try to explain how it will bolt on.

There will be two bolts per side on the front at each end of the winch plate. I'm going to drill and tap so the bolts will thread into the back side of the 3x2 tubing and then put a nut on also.

There will be one bolt per side going through the frame and gusset, it to will be tapped on the backside also.

For the front bolts there will be a total of 9/16" of material for the tapped holes and for the side bolts there will be a total of 9/16" of material for the tapped holes.

Hope all that crap makes sense.



The 3/8" plates are clamped to the 3x2 tubing that is welded to the end of the frame rails.

Side views.

It's kinda hard to tell but if you look real hard you can see the 3/8" thick angle that is weled in the corner.

 

[Jungoes]

I have never built a bumper before but i have done welding and tapping,
the idea of tapping into the steel sections doesn't sound too right, I can't see where you are going to drill and tap and have sufficient thickness to give good bolt / thread engagement.
what size of bolts are you using?, would be much stronger if you just had a backing plate with nuts welded on so you can remove them.
I say drill through the the tubing and just use some nuts/ washers in place, the Tapping sounds like more trouble than the strength it may give you, if you had proper tapping.

 

[jmt2404]

I don't know about drilling and tapping the metal there to hold the winch up there but here here is how mine is mounted and is super strong. I have a 10k lb smittybuilt on there and have pulled k5 blazer, jeeps and myself out of multiple sticky spots with no issues.

In the first pic you can see the bolt holes. 2 bolts in the frame and 2 bolts in the stock bumper mounts. For the frames we just cut the stock caps off and welded nuts to the back of the cap and then welded new caps onto the frame rails. So there are 4 bolts on each side for a total of 8 bolts.

The second pic is just a profile shot of how far my bumper sticks out.

Are you doing tube bumper or plate?

 

[mmml4]

Are you doing tube bumper or plate?

I will be using square tubing and if it looks like crap then I'll go with round.

 

[mmml4]

I have never built a bumper before but i have done welding and tapping,
the idea of tapping into the steel sections doesn't sound too right, I can't see where you are going to drill and tap and have sufficient thickness to give good bolt / thread engagement.
what size of bolts are you using?, would be much stronger if you just had a backing plate with nuts welded on so you can remove them.
I say drill through the the tubing and just use some nuts/ washers in place, the Tapping sounds like more trouble than the strength it may give you, if you had proper tapping.

I will be using M18x1.5mm pitch for the 4 bolts on the front and M16x1.5mm pitch bolts on the sides. The outside of the tubing will have drill through holes and the tapping will be done on the inside or backside. All of the tapped holes will have 9/16" of material for the threads and I will be using nuts and washers on all bolts.

You may have talked me out of tapping and just using nuts and washers because it will be a good bit of work to tap those holes. I guess I have a tendancy to complicate things sometimes. Maybe thats why I am 5 years into this project and thats why I like getting input from others.

Thanks

 

[jmt2404]

Square tubing will be interesting to see. I've always thought sqaure tubing looks awesome turned up like a diamond instead of a square. (does that make sense?)

 

[mmml4]

Square tubing will be interesting to see. I've always thought sqaure tubing looks awesome turned up like a diamond instead of a square. (does that make sense?)

That would be trick and would make for some interesting cuts.

 

[jmt2404]

Yeah it would. I was going to build my sliders like that but didn't have enough square stock to do the outer bars. I think it would definately be one of a kind for sure and would be an amazing build if the design is right.

 

[Jungoes]

Keep us updated with this build I'm really interested to see how this comes out, its been a small project I've been contemplating as well

 

[mmml4]

Made some progress. It's a little disappointing to me, square really is square and not very creative.
I wish I had some of the creativity of some of the young minds on this board, maybe on down the road I will get a tubing bender and build one of round tubing.
It's going to be plenty strong and functional but not much to look at.

Comments are welcome.

 

[jmt2404]

All you need are some angles on it to make it look less box'y. I like it so far. Its got potential to be awesome... Keep at it. My advice is don't take an easier route just because its less work. I did that on my rear bumper (my tire carrier) and ended up not happy with it and it wasn't strong enough, so take your time and be patient. your finished product is only savior as the time and effort you put into it.

 

[Jungoes]

Looks really good so far!, your welding and alignment look sharp, are you going to put another identical section on the lower side?
as for the "square look" you can be creative by making some miter cuts about 2-3 inches long which will give you a more gradual transition , its more welding but would soften the transition you are looking for

 

[Antman]

I agree- looks good. Maybe just try some angles and it will be :girl:

 

[mmml4]

Thanks guys. Would it be taboo to mix some round in with the square? I still have some more tubing to put on it and some gussets from the front mounting plates to the winch plate. I plan on using the factory turn signals and that might help a little. I need some inspiration.

 

[jmt2404]

There are sliders made with both square and round tubing and there are mixed plate and tubing bumpers as well..

My rear bumper is round tubing but the tire carrier is square. My sliders are both..

but, Who cares if its taboo.. Its your build, Do what you want with it, not what makes other people happy....

 

[Hepar]

but, Who cares if its taboo.. Its your build, Do what you want with it, not what makes other people happy....

What he said.

Looks good so far. If you have the time, you can maybe mock up any ideas you have before you weld them and there will be plenty of us who will give you our two cents.

 

[Gerdo]

I hope I'm not too late.
It looks like you addressed THE main concern. The stock bumper mounts are made to hole the stock bumper on. The stock bumper is designed for impacts only and if you just mount to those mounts they WILL be yanked off when winching or doing a recovery. The stock mounts are just stitch welded on. It looks like you welded a frame cross brace in. This (if done well) will allow winching and recoveries with your new bumper.

My thoughts are...
*Keep things tight/don't get too far away from the rig.
*Allow ~5/8" between the bumper and the body for flex room
*Keep it tucked in close in front, you don't want it to look like a snow shovel out there
*keep the bottom high to increase approach angle
*Use large bolts and nuts 12mm or bigger (1/2"+)
*threading requires the depth of the width of the bolt (12mm bolt requires 12mm of bolt/threaded thickness)
*I would also tie into the side frame mounts. These will support the sides and help resist rotation
*It will blend in better once it is painted black.

Mine is 2x2 square, Trail Gear winch plate and 1.75 round tube hoop.

 

[mmml4]

Thanks Gerdo, I think I covered all of your thoughts but one and that would be I am out front too far. It looks like I might be able to move the winch plate back about 2". I am not too worried about approach angle just yet because I don't plan on doing any hard core offroading in the near future.

I plated the inside of the frame with 3/16" plate from the motor mounts to the 3"x2"x3/16" crossmember on the front. I then tied the 3/16" plate to the crossmember with 3"x6"x3/8" angle. The front crossmember is welded to the lower crossmember, so I think the I have ample strength for winching/recovery.

The lower crossmember started out as my leaf spring hanger and I didn't feel like cutting it off and cleaning the frame up. Yes I started out with leafs and then found I had no steering solution (listened to a friend on that one).

I will be using two 18mm bolts on each side on the front plates and one 16mm on each of the side plates.

Would have a picture of yours from the side?

 

[mmml4]

Small update, got the 4 18mm front mounting bolt holes drilled and the turn signals tacked on.

 

[Gerdo]

Sounds like it will be stout enough.
BTW, when I said 12mm or bigger, I am referring to the shank/threads of the bold and not the heads. What is the measurement on the shanks of your bolts?