Camburg Uni-ball UCA's cant get more than +3 caster?

[kboxvegas]

So I took the 4R to a Firestone that did another members alignment with a very similar lift, figuring it should should be ok. Well, they had it from 11am to 6PM and called me telling me that they cant get more than +3 caster. I go over there at 7:45 (they close at 8) and come to find out their "200K Hunter machine" cannot turn off the VSC light and they have been trying since 6pm. I have them get me two pieces of wire and I show them how to do it. The manager proceeds to tell me to bring it back and he will try again but I am not getting more than +3 caster even with the Camburg uni-ball's. I asked for a print out, but the black toner in their printer was out so it had no numbers on it. On the way home, I find out I now have rub before full lock, in reverse with my 275/70/17's on 17x7 TRD rims which I did not have before. Does any of this sound right about the limited caster, or is this guy full of it?

Specs:
Fox Factory 2.5's at 3", Camburg uni-ball UCA's, BFG K02 275/70/17, TRD 17x7.

BTW on a funny note, the first tech (an older black guy) did not notice the dash cam and had some choice, semi racist comments about my choice to "be a ****ing stupid ass white boy by throwing a 5 inch lift on my decent truck, ****ing it up". The ironic thing was when I was helping them clear the codes that they could not figure out, he would not shut up about his "400hp Scion TC project car" that no one ever asked about.

 

[bimrunner]

You should not have a problem. Camburg, Icon, TC... All the uniball should be +2 to begin with. I'm over +5. Time to go to a different Firestone. It is highly dependent on the tech doing the work.

 

[4Surfin]

find a reputable shop... those big box stores are full of clowns.... and please show the video of Homey D Clown and his classless shit talking to managment

 

[BLACK-FL4RUNNER]

find a reputable shop... those big box stores are full of clowns.... and please show the video of Homey D Clown and his classless shit talking to managment

Or at least upload it to youtube and post a link here... :rockon:

 

[Apex Overland]

I tried firestone too, never had a great experience with them, couldn't get my alignment right, two times at one store and once to another. found a local guy that has a FJ, he does alignment and got it right in 10 min.

try using a smaller locally owned tire shop to do it, the techs are better at those places anyways.

 

[Ebbsnflows]

I'm in a similar boat with my Total-Chaos uniballs. With the stock UCA's I could only manager .75 and 1.5 Degrees. So I ordered some Total-Chaos UCA's and was barely able to get 3.1 and 3.6 deg (Toytec 3/2" lift). So while it was an improvement, it's still nowhere near what some folks on here report.

And FWIW, I took it to a very well known/respected local Mom/Pop alignment shop (no computers...all old school alignment tools). He's started off as a NASCAR suspension tech 25 yrs ago, and has been in the alignment business here for the past 20 yrs. I absolutely trust his ability...I just think that like anything else, there are slight factory build variations that permit/prohibit extreme adjustments on some 4runners.

 

[Intruder]

Like [MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION] I'm also able to easily get over +5 caster with my TC UCAs. If you're not getting at least +4 then your alignment shop is probably doing it wrong.

 

[wfo9]

Like other stated. Doubt it is an issue with the UCA. All they do is position the ball further back than stock (yielding + 2 caster angle by default). The adjustments the tech can make is moving the lower ball around via the front and rear cams.

I've never had the opportunity to adjust one myself, but it seems to be a little tricky since you can't move it forward and aft in a straight line, so attempting to add caster also impacts camber. I pulled and modified the attached images from the repair manual to explain the settings. Maybe showing this to the tech would help hit your target. This is obviously not the exact numbers... but it should help determine where to go with each cam. The bottom right corner would be the place to start and then dial back until camber got acceptable.

 

[gm350reratliff]

I don't doubt that they can't get any more caster out of it. I have the Camburg UCAs with the BJs. Along with my Icons set at 2.75", I think 2.5 or 3° was all I could get out of them. My 4runner drives perfect though.

You may need to find another shop though because alignments on these Toyotas are pretty easy really. There is no way it should've taken them that long.

 

[wfo9]

Agree, the numbers are not the end all be all... If it drives fine, don't even worry about it. There are way more things impacting how it drives than the caster. You just want to get it as positive as possible without throwing other things off.

You mentioned rubbing in reverse... that is going to happen with more + caster. You will need to push the fender liner forward and/or trim some plastic.

 

[my14runner]

So I took the 4R to a Firestone that did another members alignment with a very similar lift, figuring it should should be ok. Well, they had it from 11am to 6PM and called me telling me that they cant get more than +3 caster. I go over there at 7:45 (they close at 8) and come to find out their "200K Hunter machine" cannot turn off the VSC light and they have been trying since 6pm. I have them get me two pieces of wire and I show them how to do it. The manager proceeds to tell me to bring it back and he will try again but I am not getting more than +3 caster even with the Camburg uni-ball's. I asked for a print out, but the black toner in their printer was out so it had no numbers on it. On the way home, I find out I now have rub before full lock, in reverse with my 275/70/17's on 17x7 TRD rims which I did not have before. Does any of this sound right about the limited caster, or is this guy full of it?

Specs:
Fox Factory 2.5's at 3", Camburg uni-ball UCA's, BFG K02 275/70/17, TRD 17x7.

BTW on a funny note, the first tech (an older black guy) did not notice the dash cam and had some choice, semi racist comments about my choice to "be a ****ing stupid ass white boy by throwing a 5 inch lift on my decent truck, ****ing it up". The ironic thing was when I was helping them clear the codes that they could not figure out, he would not shut up about his "400hp Scion TC project car" that no one ever asked about.

Go to the Firestone on Sahara & I believe Nellis? over on the East side "Yeah I know its the hood" but ask for Juddi she is the manager there and she will take care of you.
(702) 628-9334

 

[kboxvegas]

First, thank you all for the input.

I had my GF take it to another Firestone since I got the lifetime deal. Here are the current specs, he said the caster and toe were set to counteract road crown, which Vegas does have a fair amount of on most streets. Do these look ok, or should I keep trying? I am still at work and have not had a chance to drive it yet.

 

[wfo9]

Looks close enough. The camber on the right side is a tad high ( I would personally sacrifice some caster on both sides to get that down a bit), but not a huge deal.

There is no perfect answer.

If it drives fine, don't worry about it.

Don't over analyze it.. What matters is how it drives and tire wear. This should not be a big problem. I would keep an eye on the passenger outer tire edge for uneven wear. And yes, the ideal alignment does depend on the local road crown.

 

[TotalAutomotiveLV]

Hi from your Vegas neighbor. We've seen this before, especially on Tacomas. This is why ICON now makes a heim'ed arm, to get more caster.

I know the boys over at the toyota dealer do a lot of ICON installs and could get you setup.

 

[kboxvegas]

Thanks again, I think I am going to drive it over the weekend and see how it goes.

 

[DesertCanyons]

Heim'ed Arm to get more Caster?

Hi from your Vegas neighbor. We've seen this before, especially on Tacomas. This is why ICON now makes a heim'ed arm, to get more caster.

I know the boys over at the toyota dealer do a lot of ICON installs and could get you setup.

[MENTION=120150]TotalAutomotiveLV[/MENTION]
I went through your site looking for the heim'ed arm and couldn't tell what you were talking about. Can you please explain and possibly provide a link to the part. TIA
Dave
Total Automotive Performance | Auto Parts and Accessories | Shocks | Mufflers | LED Lights

 

[TotalAutomotiveLV]

[MENTION=120150]TotalAutomotiveLV[/MENTION]
I went through your site looking for the heim'ed arm and couldn't tell what you were talking about. Can you please explain and possibly provide a link to the part. TIA
Dave
Total Automotive Performance | Auto Parts and Accessories | Shocks | Mufflers | LED Lights

A heimed control arm such as the ICON Billet or the Dirt King pictured below have 3/4 inch heims instead of bushings that allow for additional adjustment

 

[Intruder]

But a heim joint is generally not as strong as a uniball. Keep this in mind since I don't know what the intended usage of this truck will be.

 

[TotalAutomotiveLV]

But a heim joint is generally not as strong as a uniball. Keep this in mind since I don't know what the intended usage of this truck will be.

I think you are confusing balljoint arms like SPC / Light Racing with heim joint inner arms. The arms above still feature a 1" uniball, but have heimed inners to provide additional adjustment.

Standard Bushings on Dirt King 1" Uniball Boxed arms.

Heim inner bushings on Dirt King 1" Uniball boxed arms.

 

[TotalAutomotiveLV]