Chevy Volt

[zonianbrat]

Wow lots of good info! I've never really looked into hybrids just cause I like the smell of exhaust and gasoline fumes! I do have some questions though and maybe you guys can answer them. Calikev: your lease with the option to buy deal...do you get a lot of miles with the lease? I've heard if you put too many miles on them then your hit hard with over-mileage fees. I suppose this would not matter if your buying I guess. Does anybody know if the batteries in these cars suffer due to colder climates? I live up by steamboat springs Co and it "can" get pretty darn cold here. Also how does hilly terrain affect the battery life and mileage on these hybrids?

 

[Thai]

Wow lots of good info! I've never really looked into hybrids just cause I like the smell of exhaust and gasoline fumes! I do have some questions though and maybe you guys can answer them. Calikev: your lease with the option to buy deal...do you get a lot of miles with the lease? I've heard if you put too many miles on them then your hit hard with over-mileage fees. I suppose this would not matter if your buying I guess. Does anybody know if the batteries in these cars suffer due to colder climates? I live up by steamboat springs Co and it "can" get pretty darn cold here. Also how does hilly terrain affect the battery life and mileage on these hybrids?

Extreme temps (hot or cold) will affect battery performance...just like a cell phone. Hilly terrain will affect mileage. BUT, wouldn't these also affect any gas engines also? There are plenty of hybrid owners who live in these conditions. Are they ideal for hybrids? No...but as noted, these conditions are not ideal for most cars. Remember, in Canada, Prius is used as Taxis...so, it can't be that bad in cold weather!

Potentially, if you're in a long long long climb up a mountain, then your battery power may run low and you then have to rely more on the gas engine (1.8L engine in Prius). It will get you there with decent mileage, but you won't be getting there fast and you may hear more engine noise than someone living at sea level. For something like that, i would recommend a bigger engine hybrid, such as Toyota Camry Hybrid or Highlander Hybrid.

Battery life is a non-issue. Proven over and over again.

 

[Thai]

Wow lots of good info! I've never really looked into hybrids just cause I like the smell of exhaust and gasoline fumes! I do have some questions though and maybe you guys can answer them. Calikev: your lease with the option to buy deal...do you get a lot of miles with the lease? I've heard if you put too many miles on them then your hit hard with over-mileage fees. I suppose this would not matter if your buying I guess. Does anybody know if the batteries in these cars suffer due to colder climates? I live up by steamboat springs Co and it "can" get pretty darn cold here. Also how does hilly terrain affect the battery life and mileage on these hybrids?

Extreme temps (hot or cold) will affect battery performance...just like a cell phone. Hilly terrain will affect mileage. BUT, wouldn't these also affect any gas engines also? There are plenty of hybrid owners who live in these conditions. Are they ideal for hybrids? No...but as noted, these conditions are not ideal for most cars. Remember, in Canada, Prius is used as Taxis...so, it can't be that bad in cold weather!

Potentially, if you're in a long long long climb up a mountain, then your battery power may run low and you then have to rely more on the gas engine (1.8L engine in Prius). It will get you there with decent mileage, but you won't be getting there fast and you may hear more engine noise than someone living at sea level. For something like that, i would recommend a bigger engine hybrid, such as Toyota Camry Hybrid or Highlander Hybrid.

Battery life is a non-issue. Proven over and over again.

As for leasing, i drive too much to make it financially smart to do. And the bottom line, if you're buying a hybrid, then you should drive the piss out of it to earn your dollar back!!

 

[1engineer]

Remember, the savings for a Prius goes beyond gas. There is no starter. Brakes are seldomly replaced before 100k miles, if at all. Oil changes are that of a small 1.8L engine. In other words, at least for Prius, the ONLY things that you do for most of the life of a Prius are: oil changes, tire rotations, windshield wiper change. That's it. No fuel additives (like diesel). Click link here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/858339-post100.html

As for cradle to grave, click link here: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/858343-post101.html

I read your links and in no shape, way or form was I criticizing a Prius. The Dust to Dust report is junk science. The report(s) I read were much more in line with about 25% more energy required, which is a lot. The Volt would be even more than that. R&D costs are very hard to truly assign to a specific product because the R&D is used in so many other products too. At the end of the day though it really does not matter because vehicles are mostly about passion. Sure we use them for mundane tasks but it's more than a simple way to get from point "a" to point "b" for most. If you enjoy it and can afford it then drive it!

 

[Thai]

Let me re-address my post above...SCREW the Camry Hybrid...i am aiming for upcoming 2013 Toyota Avalon hybrid! Gets the same mileage as Camry Hybrid (40 mpg combined!!!) but in a more aggressive package...and it is cavernous inside!! It would be perfect for my 3 little ones in the back! My wife would love it. Trunk space for the Hybrid is still pretty good at 14 cu ft (down from 16 cu ft for gasser).

Link: 2013 Toyota Avalon First Drive

Yes, it (Limited Hybrid) is just over $10k more for the Avalon hybrid vs. TCH...but, the new shape, the new interior, the space, the tomb-like silence, etc...it may be worth it!

Look at the space and legroom!!

Nice dash! Best one that i have seen on a Toyota!

 

[-JD-]

1engineer, why do you say that the volt would be more energy intensive to produce than the Prius?
On your comment about passion; There is definitely something that feels a lot more "next generation" about the volt's all electric drive and that excites me. As weird as it sounds, MPG savings aside, the idea of driving a Prius or other traditional hybrid does nothing for me but the idea of driving electric everyday and considerably reducing my gasoline purchasing is much more exciting to me.

A lot of Prius comparisons here:

 

[1engineer]

1engineer, why do you say that the volt would be more energy intensive to produce than the Prius?
On your comment about passion; There is definitely something that feels a lot more "next generation" about the volt's all electric drive and that excites me. As weird as it sounds, MPG savings aside, the idea of driving a Prius or other traditional hybrid does nothing for me but the idea of driving electric everyday and considerably reducing my gasoline purchasing is much more exciting to me.

A lot of Prius comparisons here:

Battery manufacture and size of battery is what I meant. I do not know by how much though.

 

[Thai]

JD, here is a good comparison among the hybrids: 2011 Chevrolet Volt vs 2011 Nissan Leaf SL vs 2011 Toyota Prius III Comparison - Motor Trend

Volt looks good.

And here is C&D's extensive test: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2011-chevrolet-volt-full-test-road-test

Yeah, when the gas engine runs, mpg is mid-30's.

 

[calikev]

Calikev: your lease with the option to buy deal...do you get a lot of miles with the lease? I've heard if you put too many miles on them then your hit hard with over-mileage fees. I suppose this would not matter if your buying I guess.

You can adjust the mileage upfront to pay in the payment for the amount you need. I NEVER do this because you only pay for the miles IF you give the car back. EVERY single time I've given the car back I've gotten another car from that same dealer and miraculously the mileage charge disappeared if I bought another from them. The dealer gets to buy the car back from Toyota at a subsidized price that is below the residual value.

You get several options at least end...

1-Buy your car as it is and refi with Toyota
2-Buy your car as it is and refi with Toyota and get it certified for 100k miles
3-Give it back and pay lease term fee and mileage fee if you're over
4-Buy another car from Toyota and give the leased ending car back--They always waive all fees for me. Lease termination, new lease drive off fees, 1st payment, etc... Toyota will send a letter with a few great options just before the lease ends

The dealer and Toyota want the same thing...to buy your lease end car and resell it for a profit---they know everything about it, it's been serviced at their shop and is a perfect pre-owned certified vehicle with all records. They then want you to buy another car and repeat this process. It's a win for all parties. The dealer sells 3 cars in 3 yrs ---the 1st lease, the same car being certified and sold to a used car buyer and the new car you buy at the end of your lease...that's 3 sales in 3 yrs compared to you buying a new car and driving the crap out of it for 8-10 yrs then returning.

The lease keeps the brand quality very high. Selling certified cars with 30-36k miles is as good for a manufacturer as selling brand new cars. People have very few issues with these certified used cars and Toyota doesn't either. So the buyers speak very highly in terms of quality whether buying new or used. This makes public perception that the manufacturer makes better cars and more reliable cars. Some of which is very true and some of the perception is gained because the cars being sold are better maintained and have better history of maintenance or Toyota won't allow the dealer to certify or sell them.

If more US car makers would focus on leasing the buyer's perception of quality and reliability would improve greatly and sales would increase...too bad they are short sighted and won't raise the residual values to get this process in action for the entire US automotive industry.

 

[calikev]

Let me re-address my post above...SCREW the Camry Hybrid...i am aiming for upcoming 2013 Toyota Avalon hybrid! Gets the same mileage as Camry Hybrid (40 mpg combined!!!) but in a more aggressive package...and it is cavernous inside!! It would be perfect for my 3 little ones in the back! My wife would love it. Trunk space for the Hybrid is still pretty good at 14 cu ft (down from 16 cu ft for gasser).

Link: 2013 Toyota Avalon First Drive

Yes, it (Limited Hybrid) is just over $10k more for the Avalon hybrid vs. TCH...but, the new shape, the new interior, the space, the tomb-like silence, etc...it may be worth it!

Look at the space and legroom!!

Nice dash! Best one that i have seen on a Toyota!

WOW!!! Thanks Thai. I hadn't seen the new Avalon. This may be my next car when the Prius lease is over too. That's a good looking car and 40mpg...DAMNNNNN

 

[THEROK]

Leases suck unless you're a business writing it off.

Total USA in debt lifestyle justifying the idea of constantly being under contract making payments on an expense item.

Of all cars the Prius is the one to buy outright. Youre not buying an intel cpu bud. Get with a financial advisor.

 

[calikev]

Clearly you need to take your advice and visit a financial planner before speaking on things you obviously have no knowledge of. Any financial planner will tell you that a purchase is either an asset or a liability. A car is never an asset and will need maintenance more each year. I choose to not pay maintenance and have a new reliable vehicle under warranty every 3 yrs BUD.

BTW,,, a purchase would be $600-$650 a month + gas and paying taxes upfront and on the total price+ all maintenance and repairs and by the time you pay it off most will be in the market for a new car and I will have my 2nd new car with warranty still in tact and will likely spend $4k-$4500 less per yr than your "old" and uninformed way of doing things. I can invest that money or save it to buy the car if I want. A lease is an option to buy or walk away and greatly lowers your exposure and expenses.

I'm happy to share thoughts with anyone and listen. Insulting and attacking me about things you aren't prepared to really discuss or have an educated viewpoint on are a waste of time and contribute nothing to the discussion

 

[-JD-]

I think leasing vs financing can be good or bad, it totally depends on the numbers. In my case I visited the chevy dealer today and their lease rates were outrageous. The cost to lease the car for 4 years would be just slightly less than to finance its entire cost.

Went for a test drive today. I was really impressed. It was better than i expected. Never having driven an electric before I was really impressed by the power delivery. So smooth and responsive with no shifting. You put your foot into it at almost any speed and get this quick but totally smooth thrust of torque, no waiting for it to downshift. Add that to the fact that it does it all almsot silently and its quite the experience. I would recommend a test drive to everyone just for the hell of it. Ride and handling were also quite good. Very smooth ride but it still stays flat in the corners.

Not without its faults though. Visibility could be better. The windows are a bit squatty and the dash is high. The touch based centre console is also a bit of pain as many reviews have noted. Its not terrible but trying to do multiple quick presses isn't possible. You have to give it a second between each press (Sort of like the steering wheel volume control on the T4R). Luckily theres a physical volume and scroll dial. The actual touchscreen, on the other hand, seemed pretty good. I didnt get a chance to use it extensively but it was fairly quick and responsive from what I did try.

Overall I've got to say I left with a more positive impression of the car but none of my big concerns have changed. I'm still concerned mostly about resale value and the advancing technology. From the bit of research I have done it seems like lithium batteries are as good as it gets for the next few years but with technology you really never know.

 

[-JD-]

Some great technical info on the workings of the powertrain. The engineering of this vehicle is very impressive.

 

[Thai]

Someone has a Volt in his future!!

 

[-JD-]

^HAHA. Still researching, but I've got to admit that the more I learn the more I like it.
However, my reading about battery technology led me to this battery company called Envia that claims they will double the storage capacity and reduce the cost of lithium ion batteries, and they claim it will be marketable in the next 2-4 years.

GM may have electric car breakthrough - Businessweek

 

[Thai]

Ok...rephrasing my prior post...SCREW Avalon, this is what i want: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/all-other-vehicles/128492-2013-acura-rlx.html#post1218331

That Acura may be the car to get for me!

 

[THEROK]

Clearly you need to take your advice and visit a financial planner before speaking on things you obviously have no knowledge of. Any financial planner will tell you that a purchase is either an asset or a liability. A car is never an asset and will need maintenance more each year. I choose to not pay maintenance and have a new reliable vehicle under warranty every 3 yrs BUD.

BTW,,, a purchase would be $600-$650 a month + gas and paying taxes upfront and on the total price+ all maintenance and repairs and by the time you pay it off most will be in the market for a new car and I will have my 2nd new car with warranty still in tact and will likely spend $4k-$4500 less per yr than your "old" and uninformed way of doing things. I can invest that money or save it to buy the car if I want. A lease is an option to buy or walk away and greatly lowers your exposure and expenses.

I'm happy to share thoughts with anyone and listen. Insulting and attacking me about things you aren't prepared to really discuss or have an educated viewpoint on are a waste of time and contribute nothing to the discussion

Sounds to me like someone who is

Drum roll please

Short on CA$H. Or. Can't really afford to be driving a new Prius but is locking himself into a multi year contract with nothing to show for it at the end of the day.

Invest the difference? What? What returns do you expect to get for chump change invested? Lol

 

[-JD-]

Interesting review as the reviewer seems to start out with a bias against the Volt:

Wheels.ca – Is the Chevy Volt really the better way?

 

[calikev]

Sounds to me like someone who is

Drum roll please

Short on CA$H. Or. Can't really afford to be driving a new Prius but is locking himself into a multi year contract with nothing to show for it at the end of the day.

Invest the difference? What? What returns do you expect to get for chump change invested? Lol

Sounds to me like someone who is

Drum roll please

Short on CA$H. Or. Can't really afford to be driving a new Prius but is locking himself into a multi year contract with nothing to show for it at the end of the day.

Invest the difference? What? What returns do you expect to get for chump change invested? Lol

This is the last time I will play with you THEROK. You're obviously trying to get a rise out of me. I will break this down for you one last time and then I'm done dealing with you. I don't come here to talk to children. I share my finance principles with my 12 yr old son and he gets it...THEROK are you smarter than a 7th grader?

<> Firstly the lease is for people with good credit
<> The payment is less cuz you pay for 3 yrs of value and defer the rest...you want to defer as much as possible so you can decide 3 yrs from now whether you want to own it or not and to keep payments as low as possible for the 3 yrs of "testing time"
<> The interest I paid was under 1% compared to 5-7% for excellent credit purchasers, that's BIG SAVINGS and more buying power for nav, pano roof etc...or for just saving
<> I paid $0 down payment so that is cash to invest and save
<> I am not paying taxes for the full amount cuz I only own part of the car...if it's stolen or total lost in an accident I'm out the partial $...a buyer is out the full amount and will pay the full amount again to buy another. Also, insurance companies don't factor taxes into payoffs after theft or total loss accidents.
<> If the car is worth the residual (amount owed in 3 yrs) I will buy it if I want to own it and still love it...if the car is worth far less, I will give it back and take my "smart money" in another direction whether with that manufacturer or not
<> The residual is a guaranteed trade in value---that's all it is! You have the control, NOT the dealer. If you do a traditional purchase and trade in 3 yrs YOU LOSE. I don't. I CHOOSE, based on my guaranteed value on the contract.

I pay almost $400 a month for a $35k car. A purchase would be about $700 a month x 60 mos, if financing $35k. That means you paid taxes of about $3000 cash and still pay $300 more in payments for the first 3 yrs of the 5 yr purchase contract. I will take the $300 x 36 months ($10800) and invest it + the $3000 cash paid for taxes=$13800!!!!!. This is the chump change investment you are talking about, but don't have enough sense to understand.

I am driving the same car as the guy that commited and bought it, just no where close to as exposed as he is. AGAIN...I will say this. A car is NOT an asset. Only people that have nothing more valuable than their car think this way. Do you really think wealthy people are stupid enough to pay $400,000 for a Ferrari??? No, they lease and get another in a yr or 2. They lease even shorter terms than an average Joe like me, because of their image and need to have the newest of everything. Wealthy people have people to tell them that they will pay for a car forever, or at least as long as they drive they will. These advisors let them know it will either be in the form of payments or maintenance.

I choose owning my Runner outright and having one car that is new, with warranty, no maintenance and the option to trade with no hassle based on a guaranteed value every 3 yrs...my wife drives these leased cars and I am proud to know she will never call me on the side of the road in an old broke down car cuz I had to own a liablilty thinking it was an asset.

I understand how to invest and save and rent my "paid off" homes/condos to people like you...those that just don't get it. I've paid these homes off from renters that thought like you THEROK. The renter covered the mortgage payment plus 25% and I added 75% to equal 200% of the payment being made monthly. I then set the payments up on weekly payments to lower the interest on the mortgages and financed the homes for 15 yrs. I also added 1 payment to each home loan each year. The results were that the homes were paid in full in 11 yrs. I have the deeds to those homes in my safety deposit box. I don't need to give my financials on a truck forum, but I can damn sure tell you that I'm far from short on cash or buying beyond my means by getting a Prius.


JD I hope you enjoy the Volt if you buy it. I tried to steer you to the Prius for the reasons I have clearly stated above in great detail. The Volt is a great car and should serve you and your family for many years. Again, enjoy it!!!!!