Clutch Etiquette Questions

[JMunn55]

What gear to I put it into when I'm coming out of a turn at 5mph? I can't put it in first, because it won't let me, and second is too high.

Personally, I would be in 2nd. It'll be alright

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

What gear to I put it into when I'm coming out of a turn at 5mph? I can't put it in first, because it won't let me, and second is too high.

Two options:
1- Put it in 2nd gear and nurse it along (very little accelerator) until the RPMs reach 1500-2000, when you can accelerate normally.

2- Double-clutch while rev-matching to get it smoothly into 1st gear.

 

[THatfield]

I learned to drive a stick in a similar vehicle to a 4Runner. Old beat up Rodeo. I was scared, but eventually, I could float the gears like a pro. Every now and then I miss that old truck.

The main thing is to just drive it. Like others have said, if you're in traffic now, it's all just fine tuning down the road. If the engine is lugging, downshift. Backing up is a challenge, but just feather the clutch going into it and give it enough gas to where you can let out. You might stall a few times, but that's all part of the learning experience.

My advice, find an empty parking lot, and play around with different scenarios. bring some cones or other things you can set up. As for hills, I hated them until I learned once you let off the brake, give it a little more gas than you normally would but let off the clutch just as quick as you would on flat ground. It's one fluid motion, but it takes a second to learn it.

Sounds to me like you are on the right track. Mistakes will only help you learn, so don't be afraid to make a few!

 

[white_n_slow]

So I am relatively new at driving a manual transmission... I have been doing so since Saturday.

I want my clutch and transmission and everything to last as long as possible, so I am all about what wears out the bits the least, but being on my own with learning how to shift, I want to make sure I haven't learned how to do it wrong!

1. When braking, should I hold down the clutch as I slow down and then when I reach my stop put it into gear and wait to sail off? Or should I put it into neutral when I start braking and then brake in neutral with my foot off the clutch and then keep it in neutral at the light until I need to go? Or should I downshift? I do not do this at all currently, as I figured it would be more wear on the clutch and trans - pushing in and pulling out the clutch more times than the other options.I leave it in gear while decelerating. Let the engine help out the brakes. I even downshift while slowing if I am slowing for a turn that will require powering out a few seconds later. I generally put the clutch in only when approaching a stop, then leave it in neutral at the red light.

2. Setting off is still a bit of a problem for me. I feel like I either give it too little gas or let off the clutch too quickly, because the RPMs dip to about 400 and the car kind of lurches every time I set off. Is it better to come off the clutch even slower with even more gas to prevent this from happening?More gas. You aren't going to hurt anything by launching a little hard until you get the hang of it.

3. When I reverse, I basically just have the clutch exactly halfway down without touching the gas. Because I want to reverse SLOWLY, and if I come all the way off the clutch I am flying. I know this is the dreaded "riding the clutch", but I don't know how else I should reverse.Gotta do it if you want to go slow in reverse. At low RPM's you're really not hurting the clutch. Another method is to let the clutch out and then poke it back in once you get rolling.

4. When should I apply the gas to shift? Should I always "rev match", or apply more gas before I've come off the clutch so the revs match what I expect them to be in this new gear?Not really sure how to instruct on this one, you'll just have to get the hang of it. When upshifting, the revs will drop naturally to where they will be in the next gear. The trick is to time your shift so that the time it takes you to go from one gear to the next is about the same time it takes the engine to drop 1000rpm or so. If you're shifting slower, just blip the throttle to get it in the right ballpark. It doesn't have to be perfect, that's what syncros are for.

As for downshifting, I always give it some gas to match the revs to where they will be in the next gear. Once you get the hang of this while coasting, try mastering while braking "heel-toe downshift" this is the "proper" way to do it, but most people don't because it's kind of a bother. It will extend the life of your syncros.

5. What RPM is too low and hard on the components of the engine or transmission? I often put it into 4th at a speed where the RPMs may be around 1000 to 1500, and I'll have to give it some gas to get it to accelerate. Is this bad? Instead should I go into 3rd? I really suck at downshifting.Yes, this is bad. You should be between 1800 and 3000 (rough guestimate) for normal driving. And of course higher when you're trying to go fast, maintain speed on a hill or tow something.

Thanks for answering all my questions! I feel like I'm just never going to get the hang of this. It's been five days!

:edit: Also one thing a very experienced toyota mechanic told me: If you rest your hand with a coffee cup in it on the shifter while cruising in 4th gear, you will prematurely wear your transmission internals. It's the perfect spot to rest your hand (with your elbow on the center console, but don't do it! lol
....

 

[whiskey_fish]

Back into the space.

You kinda look like a jackass backing a vehicle into a 45 degree space in the one way lots around here... serves no purpose really. Also, the 4runner turns so well, it doesn't really need to be backed. I usually do in standard spaces, but it isn't nearly mandatory.

 

[TheDurk]

Two options:
1- Put it in 2nd gear and nurse it along (very little accelerator) until the RPMs reach 1500-2000, when you can accelerate normally.

2- Double-clutch while rev-matching to get it smoothly into 1st gear.

Agree with this, but:

I have driven my 5-speed for 165k over almost 15 years and I have never been unable to get it into first nor I have I felt the need to double clutch in normal driving. I always, regardless of situation, move the lever into second before downshifting into first while letting up on the accelerator. It always goes. Never go directly to first from any position other than second. If going from fourth or fifth I would double clutch but it's rare you should be doing that (panic stop at speed, mainly).

 

[4'running'26]

Gosh, I miss driving a 5spd!

The only thing I don't like about my 4runner...

 

[Grenvilleter]

As others said, you will do just fine and be gear jam'in like a pro in no time.

Your biggest challenge will be starting out on a hill without rolling back. As others have mentioned useing the parking brake helps and also trying to run the gas pedal and the brake is perhaps doable. I have never sat behind the wheel of a manual runner.

Something I have learned however was to slowly let your clutch out while holding the brake with your throttle foot. Watch the tach and when the rpms drop to around 400- 500, there is enough pressure on the drivetrain to prevent you from rolling back and you can then remove your foot from the brake and apply throttle and release the clutch fully.

I don't recommend this if you can avoid it but it's a technique that was born out of necessity.

Oh...and one more thing just for reference. On my auto 4runner, with gentle acceleration it will drop into O/D at about 47=50 mph and the rpm's drop to about 1500. Perfect for cruising flat road and maximum gas mileage.

 

[I_bRAD]

You kinda look like a jackass backing a vehicle into a 45 degree space in the one way lots around here... serves no purpose really. Also, the 4runner turns so well, it doesn't really need to be backed. I usually do in standard spaces, but it isn't nearly mandatory.

Angle parking is another story!

I usually look like a jackass regardless! :wacko:

 

[flyinbrick]

Welcome, save the manuals! Many of your questions you will naturally figure out with practice. In general, anytime you hold down the clutch, you wear down the throw-out bearing. Anytime you slip the clutch, you wear down the clutch disc. All you can do is minimize both and that's what I try to do. When I want to accelerate fast, I always gingerly hook up the clutch (foot all the way out) before gunning it and I've never had to have a clutch replaced so far.

1. When braking, should I hold down the clutch as I slow down and then when I reach my stop put it into gear and wait to sail off? Or should I put it into neutral when I start braking and then brake in neutral with my foot off the clutch and then keep it in neutral at the light until I need to go? Or should I downshift? I do not do this at all currently, as I figured it would be more wear on the clutch and trans - pushing in and pulling out the clutch more times than the other options.

All are OK. What I usually do is keep it in gear as I coast down. If the light turns green before I stop, I downshift (if needed) and gas it. If I come to a stop, I'll put it in neutral or into 1st just before the engine comes to an idle speed. If you put into neutral, you'll always have to put it back in gear. If you downshift, you'll be most ready to power out if you don't stop but this takes the most effort and gets old. I stopped doing this a long time ago.

2. Setting off is still a bit of a problem for me. I feel like I either give it too little gas or let off the clutch too quickly, because the RPMs dip to about 400 and the car kind of lurches every time I set off. Is it better to come off the clutch even slower with even more gas to prevent this from happening?

Yes, let the clutch slip a bit more for now. It just takes practice.

3. When I reverse, I basically just have the clutch exactly halfway down without touching the gas. Because I want to reverse SLOWLY, and if I come all the way off the clutch I am flying. I know this is the dreaded "riding the clutch", but I don't know how else I should reverse.

I wouldn't worry about the minimal amount of wear going in reverse. Safety is priority. Having said that, what you can do is ride the clutch a bit, then disengage and let it coast with your foot on the brake.

4. When should I apply the gas to shift? Should I always "rev match", or apply more gas before I've come off the clutch so the revs match what I expect them to be in this new gear?

This is a subject in itself and is best if you google the explanation and how to do this. Most people don't do this. I always do (heel/toe includes braking), partially out of habit, partially to save on synchronizer wear, partially cuz its fun. To answer your question, you rev with clutch in or in neutral (double clutch).

5. What RPM is too low and hard on the components of the engine or transmission? I often put it into 4th at a speed where the RPMs may be around 1000 to 1500, and I'll have to give it some gas to get it to accelerate. Is this bad? Instead should I go into 3rd? I really suck at downshifting.

The transmission doesn't care what RPM you're in, just what torque you're giving it. As for the engine, I don't know whether "lugging" it with your foot down is better/worse than high rpm wear. I drive probably in the 2k to 3k rpm range normally.