Diesel 4Runner?

i don't get what Toyota is waiting for. the tundra is last in pick up sales here in America because mpgs and horsepower suck compared to the competition. The idea of a hybrid truck is still a ways off and diesel is the most readily available option. VW is selling cars w/ the diesel engine are making their way into the market because of how efficient they are.

This is starting to remind of when Yota released the Prius and turned mpgs on its head and GM was hesitant to play catch up because they believed they would always be #1. I hope Yota is not going to make the same mistake here.
 
calithirteen said:
i don't get what Toyota is waiting for. the tundra is last in pick up sales here in America because mpgs and horsepower suck compared to the competition. The idea of a hybrid truck is still a ways off and diesel is the most readily available option. VW is selling cars w/ the diesel engine are making their way into the market because of how efficient they are.
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Yes, VW does sell a bunch of diesel engines here in the US. Unfortunately, they regularly have problems with their high pressure fuel pump, which can cause disastrous problems when they go bad. In addition, I've read a lot of reports of condensation problems downstream of the intercooler (the F150 Ecoboost engine seems to have reports of similar problems).

I love the technology. I love the idea of getting much better mileage. I love the torque. But I'm not sure that the math works. If you look at the new diesel RAM 1500, the extra cost over the V6 is roughly $4k. $4k still buys a lot of gas.

As a smaller step, Toyota could add direct injection to the V6 and an 8-speed transmission. Both would help fuel economy
 
We have one thread where people are *****ing about the weak performance of the 270 hp 4.0L V6 and we have this thread demanding a 170 hp 3.0L diesel. LOL If you want efficient, you get slow. If you want fast, it is going to be inefficient. The 1GR fits the middle ground.
 
Quentin said:
We have one thread where people are *****ing about the weak performance of the 270 hp 4.0L V6 and we have this thread demanding a 170 hp 3.0L diesel. LOL If you want efficient, you get slow. If you want fast, it is going to be inefficient. The 1GR fits the middle ground.
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Haha I bet they would be suprised if they knew what HP the OTR 18 wheelers are running. You are so right though.
 
well after spending the last 30-45 min reading this whole thread, I am going to throw in my bits from a black top queen, never off roads, never mods, just drives and that's it.

diesel, love the extra mpg, but the extra 60 cents per gallon up here kills it for me. I am not including the extra cost for the engine, maintenance, repairs or what not cause then I would get an extended warranty and probably maintenance plan so I don't have to deal with the hassle. so that adds more cost to the bottom line.

and those blu tec's, urea, etc., yeah don't run out of piss, cause I liked to see you limp that car home when they shut down cause you forgot to refill.

the reason I buy a Toyota gas engine is to no have to deal with losing my free time/vacation time at the dealer on a workday to get this work done.

turbo's are in between a gas an diesel for daily use and maintenance. I don't like to sit waiting for the turbo to cool down, spin up, lag, burnt up, etc., I just want to turn off the engine and go inside when its -20F or -40F.

and diesels, same issue on start up, glow plugs warming up (do they actually still use them in diesels?), hard to start in extreme cold, no heat at idle only under load.

last time I actually needed the torque was this past august to pull a uhaul 5x8 trailer. guess what, the last time before that was in 2002 to pull a 6x12 uhaul 2000 miles from ga to nd in February.

the reason I get a 4runner LE is the snow clearance, deep snow in my never plowed sub division, work parking lot, piece of mind that I will get to work since I am the boss, features, and now that I am getting older, I cant deal with trying to get into sedan with the seat that low, better 4wd system than the highlander, venza, sienna, for snow that is. and I don't like trucks (Tacoma/tundra).

for my situation, 99% of the time I don't need a diesel, but that's just my very narrow situation and it only applies to me.
 
I think the *idea* of a diesel 4Runner is great. The the low end torque would be great in a vehicle like this and, funny enough it would be a great match for the current transmission programming (better range is nice also). Having said that, I have gotten to durability test many new diesel vehicles and I can tell you that the old days of the bullet proof, easy to work on diesel engine are long gone. The effort to make them have more power, get better millage and meet current emission standards have made the engines extremely complicated. They can be very finicky if any small system is not operating properly. Couple this with the fact that there are far fewer mechanics actually capable of maintaining or working on these vehicles, means you have a recipe for maintenance nightmares and very large repair bills. Don't think that a dealership will be able to handle any issues that arise....Head over to the TDI forums and see what I mean. VW has been selling diesels in the US for over a decade and they still mess things up regularly. Honestly, some dealers can't even get our 4Runner oil changes right because its not a Camry.

I want a diesel, but I'll wait a while and see how some of these recently released diesels fair over the next couple of years. Would any of us have bought a 4Runner if they started having major issues after 70K miles? That does not sound like a Toyota to me. Being such a conservative company I'm guessing it will be a while before we see any Toyota diesels on our roads. When/if they do come, I hope Toyota has learned from some of the other manufacturers mistakes.
 
NoDak said:
well after spending the last 30-45 min reading this whole thread, I am going to throw in my bits from a black top queen, never off roads, never mods, just drives and that's it.

diesel, love the extra mpg, but the extra 60 cents per gallon up here kills it for me. I am not including the extra cost for the engine, maintenance, repairs or what not cause then I would get an extended warranty and probably maintenance plan so I don't have to deal with the hassle. so that adds more cost to the bottom line.

and those blu tec's, urea, etc., yeah don't run out of piss, cause I liked to see you limp that car home when they shut down cause you forgot to refill.

the reason I buy a Toyota gas engine is to no have to deal with losing my free time/vacation time at the dealer on a workday to get this work done.

turbo's are in between a gas an diesel for daily use and maintenance. I don't like to sit waiting for the turbo to cool down, spin up, lag, burnt up, etc., I just want to turn off the engine and go inside when its -20F or -40F.

and diesels, same issue on start up, glow plugs warming up (do they actually still use them in diesels?), hard to start in extreme cold, no heat at idle only under load.

last time I actually needed the torque was this past august to pull a uhaul 5x8 trailer. guess what, the last time before that was in 2002 to pull a 6x12 uhaul 2000 miles from ga to nd in February.

the reason I get a 4runner LE is the snow clearance, deep snow in my never plowed sub division, work parking lot, piece of mind that I will get to work since I am the boss, features, and now that I am getting older, I cant deal with trying to get into sedan with the seat that low, better 4wd system than the highlander, venza, sienna, for snow that is. and I don't like trucks (Tacoma/tundra).

for my situation, 99% of the time I don't need a diesel, but that's just my very narrow situation and it only applies to me.
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VERY well stated [MENTION=1032]NoDak[/MENTION] - sounds like you (like me) have owned a diesel passenger car. My guess is that most of these diesel-romantics have not.

Bottom line is that mother Toyota also knows all the things you posted, and is much too smart to stick their toe in that water - it just ain't happenin' in the USA.
 
philsey said:
VERY well stated [MENTION=1032]NoDak[/MENTION] - sounds like you (like me) have owned a diesel passenger car. My guess is that most of these diesel-romantics have not.

Bottom line is that mother Toyota also knows all the things you posted, and is much too smart to stick their toe in that water - it just ain't happenin' in the USA.
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I totally get what you are saying, however, Toyota has been making diesel 4runners for other markets for years... The only added complexity for the US would be getting the emissions up to par, so not a brand new or completely foreign concept.

I think the GX V8 is a much more likely optional engine choice, if DI is added to both the V6 and V8 and 6 to 8 speed transmissions are included the mpg and power would be addressed along with reliability. I would appreciate a Sport / Eco button similar to the Rav4.
 
I'm just going to say there is no way in hell Toyota will ever sell a diesel in the US again unless it's mounted in one of their FULL SIZED pickups. We can argue about engine mounts and transmissions and that Toyota makes diesels in all other markets. GM spent a fortune trying to build a small diesel for their mid-sized pickup line and then aborted the project due to tightening emissions standards. We're still unsure if they will launch the engines with the new Canyon/Colorado line in 2014, or is it just smoke.

Whatever diesel Toyota sells will probably be a big, turbo, joint venture between one of the diesel manufacturers (maybe the same engine as the Nissan Titan?). Americans are allergic to diesel, except for the High Plains cowboys and weirdos that drive brown diesel VW wagons with manual transmissions, all of which appear to be here in Colorado. Our politicians are allergic to diesel, coal, natural gas and think that destroying farmland to make Ethanol is how to make us energy independent, that and giving subsidies to idiotic electric cars.

Would I buy a diesel Toyota? Maybe. I'm guessing that if they made diesel 4Runners, Tacos, or Tundras those trucks would run a high premium due to their relative rareness, emission standards, and economies of scale (look what a diesel Sierra runs compared to a gas truck)--which would essentially kill the sales. How many people would wander into a Toyota dealership and see an SR5 for 32 grand, then see a diesel version for 39-40 grand and go for the diesel, which also sells for more per gallon and will likely not get much better fuel economy?

I had a 60 series diesel Canadian model. It smoked, was slow, had shutters for the cold, and had monstrous torque. It was a primal vehicle that reminded me of the Peterbilt in Duel. I didn't buy a diesel Sierra 20 years later because I got a 6L gas HD 4x4 truck for 30 grand, which was 6 grand less than a diesel vehicle.
 
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Also, here is a short list of why diesels can be unpopular

-only turbos are comparably fast to gas vehicles of similar design (which makes them more expensive)
-the large torque curve usually means you have to use beefier transmissions and drivetrains, which can add cost
-diesel stinks, park a diesel vehicle in your garage which you have spilled fuel down the side and suddenly your entire house reeks of diesel. Handle a diesel pump, step in the puddle of diesel in the gas station, and you will reek of diesel for the end of the day--try to convince most women it's fine to reek like a truck stop as they go about their daily business
-diesel turns to something resembling Vaseline in cold temperatures, which includes all your fuel lines are gummed up
-diesels tend to run cold, so you may not have a usable heater for a LONG time in winter climates
-stricter emissions standards have killed off the once excellent fuel economy AND RELIABILITY for diesels
-diesel costs more
-many states charge more for registering/inspecting a diesel vehicle
 
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Diesel

Never say never in this SUV, car and truck market on manufacturer's putting a diesel in them. I was surprised to see that Nissan was the 1st to offer a diesel in their Titan. Toyota has to be paying close attention to what it will do in sales. It's a big gamble here in the US to meet all the emissions vs reliability monster.
You said it right though, the old diesels of yesterday are gone. If you could pair up a 7.3 powerstroke in a 4runner or Tundra, I'd go buy one today.
 
Jayhawk5G said:
... The only added complexity for the US would be getting the emissions up to par, so not a brand new or completely foreign concept....
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That is among the least of the issues.

There are sooo many logistical manufacturing, assembly, distribution, stocking, issues - but the immense challenge would be bringing US dealers up to a competent level of being able to service and maintain an engine technology no US Toyota dealer has a clue about.

The time and money investment is staggering - the ROI is peanuts. There is less than zero business model for this. Repeat: Not Happenin'.
 
LandCruiser said:
....
-diesel stinks, park a diesel vehicle in your garage which you have spilled fuel down the side and suddenly your entire house reeks of diesel. Handle a diesel pump, step in the puddle of diesel in the gas station, and you will reek of diesel for the end of the day--try to convince most women it's fine to reek like a truck stop as they go about their daily business
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Ha! So, so true. You forgot the part about stepping in it, and then your car's carpet smells for days.

I'm reminded of the currently running Audi Diesel commercial where the attractive business-suited woman is pumping diesel into her pretty white Audi. Yeah, right!! Once maybe.

The cement finisher in his F350SD, was just there and he left a nice clean driveway and pump handle - not.
 
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philsey said:
That is among the least of the issues.

There are sooo many logistical manufacturing, assembly, distribution, stocking, issues - but the immense challenge would be bringing US dealers up to a competent level of being able to service and maintain an engine technology no US Toyota dealer has a clue about.

The time and money investment is staggering - the ROI is peanuts. There is less than zero business model for this. Repeat: Not Happenin'.
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Toyota is a global car manufacturer, and at least for now the largest in the world. So logistics, manufacturing, assembly, distribution, stocking... not really issues, as they do all these things and extremely well already. I would say the bigger argument against a diesel in the US any time soon is that they are far to conservative to make a move like that. Technology is constantly changing and constantly moving forward, I'm sure when the Prius first came out dealerships and technicians were not familiar with working on hybrid technology, and yet years later they still sell hybrids, no across many different models, and the dealerships were trained, etc.

If Toyota sees a reason and a profit with diesel then we will see them here, if not we won't... simple as that.

That being said the 4Runner begs for an optional higher power/torque engine, a platform like the 4.6 is a much easier option than certifying a diesel engine and training US techs.
 
It is fun to dream...Assuming it would not be burdened with a liquid emissions catalyst system and the 25% additional excise tax of diesel were leveled to that of other fuels I'd buy this drivetrain over gas without hesitation Toyota Prado specifications GX Auto
Dual tanks? 27 mpg combined? A full time/part time transfer case? Yes please.
 
Donkey said:
It is fun to dream...Assuming it would not be burdened with a liquid emissions catalyst system and the 25% additional excise tax of diesel were leveled to that of other fuels I'd buy this drivetrain over gas without hesitation Toyota Prado specifications GX Auto
Dual tanks? 27 mpg combined? A full time/part time transfer case? Yes please.
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They actually offer the 1GR in that exact vehicle. The "combined" rating is 21mpg. We can safely assume that the combined rating in AUS is pretty much the US highway rating. At 15,000 miles a year, regular at $3.50/gal and diesel at $4.00/gal, the 170hp diesel would save you $275/yr in fuel cost over the 270hp gasser. The diesel makes 20 ft-lb more torque at a much lower RPM, but they don't say what final drive is in each model. I imagine they perform similarly up to 40mph or so and then the 1GR starts putting a lot of distance on it.
 
spotted on the street

I know this is an old. just saw a new Toyota 4 runner on 05/12/2017 with Michigan plates doing a U-turn in front of my house near the Toyota headquarters in Torrance CA. it was right hand drive and sporting a diesel engine. it was not wearing a wrap to hide it. looked very nice.
 
robintorrance said:
I know this is an old. just saw a new Toyota 4 runner on 05/12/2017 with Michigan plates doing a U-turn in front of my house near the Toyota headquarters in Torrance CA. it was right hand drive and sporting a diesel engine. it was not wearing a wrap to hide it. looked very nice.
Click to expand...

Really. Sure you are not trolling?
-mod-
 
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