Diesel News

[Dennis]

You're right about the Mercedes Bluetec being the cleanest diesel car available, but unfortunately it still isn't clean enough for California, New York, Massachusetts, Vermont, or Maine--even with the ultra-low sulphur fuel set to become standard next month.

DCX plans to use the Bluetec engine in other cars like the Grand Cherokee, and there new urea system may be clean enough to pass in 2008. The EPA hasn't approved it yet, though. The difficulty of meeting 50-state pollution standards is really main reason we don't have diesel vehicles here.

 

[4RunnerRon]

Re: Been there, done that

Toyota already makes sophisticate direct injection turbodiesels, and they offer them all around the world.
Except in the U.S.

They just have to decide to import them.

Exactly... and if I remember correctly, the hood scoop that we know on our Sport Editions was actually used functionally on the diesel versions abroad. The air intake on those engines is directly on top, right under the scoop. Pretty cool if you ask me. No need for a cold air intake!

 

[Koz]

California, Maine, Massachussets, New York and Vermont. The high emissions standards required by these five states represent a major hurdle for any manufacturer that plans to introduce diesels-powered light-duty vehicles in the U.S. Even DaimlerChrysler has not meet these standards.

Koz

 

[Offroader]

Re: diesel news

It could be that it takes more crude oil to make a gal of diesel than a gal of gasoline.

Nope, it actually doesn't.
Gasoline is more refined. The more you refine it, the less from the original gallon of oil you will have.

 

[Offroader]

Re: Re: Been there, done that

Exactly... and if I remember correctly, the hood scoop that we know on our Sport Editions was actually used functionally on the diesel versions abroad. The air intake on those engines is directly on top, right under the scoop. Pretty cool if you ask me. No need for a cold air intake!

Wrong. The air intake is in the usual place.

The hood scoop is to feed air into the Intercooler.
Here's a pic.

 

[Offroader]

The following page is from July this year and shows the UK as having a higher price for diesel than gasoline as pipspeak stated from personal experience.

Europe Diesel prices from July 2006


-Eric

You're right. From 27 countries listed, the UK, Latvia, Northern Ireland, Switzerland and Slovakia are the only ones where Diesel is more expensive than gasoline.

From your list, here are some other countries:

Netherlands: Diesel is 34.6% cheaper than gasoline
Finland: 32.4%
Belgium: 28.7%
Portugal: 23.9%
Luxembourg: 22.1%
Germany: 18.9%
France: 17.0%
Denmark: 15.6%
Spain: 12.0%
Norway: 10.8%

But I also know that Diesel fuel is less taxed because it's considered a non-luxury item, important for the economy in agriculture, transportation, industry, etc...

 

[halw]

Re: diesel news

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by halw
It could be that it takes more crude oil to make a gal of diesel than a gal of gasoline.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Nope, it actually doesn't.
Gasoline is more refined. The more you refine it, the less from the original gallon of oil you will have.


__________________
2005 Japanese export version Toyota 4Runner Limited.
3.0L Intercooled Turbo Diesel engine.
Original Toyota 4Runner All-weather floor mats.
Original 4Runner Cargo Liner.
PIAA 90 Pro XT Driving/Fog Auxiliary lamps.
V-Kool spectrally selective window film: 70% Transparency Windshield (V-70), 28% (K-28) Windows / Sunroof.
Draw-Tite Round Tube Max-Frame hitch receiver.
Xetronic H.I.D. system on Low Beams.
PIAA Xtreme White Plus 9005 bulbs on High Beams.
Hella Optilux Xenon White 9006 bulbs on Fog Lamps.

Actually it does. Yes gasoline is more highly refined. But you get less diesel than gasoline from a quantity of crude. It may seem wrong but it is not. Think of the energy content. Diesel has more energy.

 

[pipspeak]

But I also know that Diesel fuel is less taxed because it's considered a non-luxury item, important for the economy in agriculture, transportation, industry, etc...

I think that depends on the country. The UK has a two-tier tax system for diesel, as I believe some other countries do. The cleaner consumer diesel is as havily taxed as gasoline but there is also commercial diesel fuel (known as red diesel) used in farm equipment and heavy machinery that is taxed less and a lot cheaper.

In some rural areas the police will actually spot check that people aren't illegally using red diesel by dipping their tanks (or removing a plug) to see if the telltale red dye is there or not. There's a heavy fine for using red diesel in passenger vehicles.

 

[Roams001]

Offroader...

What kind of fuel mileage are you getting? Have you used Biodiesel yet, any plans to?

For all the non-diesel folks. Biodiesel is not the same as Vegetable Oil (SVO, WVO). Biodiesel does not require any conversion kits and is basically the chemical equivalent of D2. It does cloud at lower temps, so you'd have to run blends at colder temps.

There are plenty of Biodiesel explanations on the web that are millions of times better than mine so look it up!

We love our little oil burner Jetta TDI 40 city / 50 highway...running on B20.

Oh and offroad diesel is usually high sulfer and will totally screw up the modern diesel engine of an onroad vehicle.

 

[Offroader]

Offroader...

What kind of fuel mileage are you getting? Have you used Biodiesel yet, any plans to?

My onboard computer usually reads 7.5 to 8 liters per 100km in highway, as long as I drive at 50-60mph.

That's roughly 30 to 32 mpg. Our highways are not flat, though. On flat portions of the highway I usually get 35 mpg.

But remember, the engine in my 4Runner is not Common Rail or Direct Injection. A direct injection engine gets a 20% increase in power and fuel economy.

For example, the engine in my 4Runner has 129hp. The Direct Injection version they used to put in the Hilux Surf (Japanese domestic version of the T4R) generated 168hp with the same engine displacement (3.0 liter).

But due to the low quality, high-sulfur content diesel fuel available in third world countries like where I live, we get a traditional turbodiesel engine.

To counteract the effects of sulfur, I use XP3, a fuel additive that disperses water in fuel. Remember that under high pressure and temperature, Sulfur and water form sulfuric acid, which slowly corrodes the engine.

Here's a Caribbean Specification page for the 4Runner:

Toyota 4Runner Caribbean Specification

Here's a pic of the TurboDiesel version's rear. The tailpipe is stainless steel, and it points downward. It's the only exterior difference.

 

[the_bear]

I think that depends on the country. The UK has a two-tier tax system for diesel, as I believe some other countries do. The cleaner consumer diesel is as havily taxed as gasoline but there is also commercial diesel fuel (known as red diesel) used in farm equipment and heavy machinery that is taxed less and a lot cheaper.

In some rural areas the police will actually spot check that people aren't illegally using red diesel by dipping their tanks (or removing a plug) to see if the telltale red dye is there or not. There's a heavy fine for using red diesel in passenger vehicles.

That is true here in the US as well. Diesel fuel sold for non-highway usage is not subject to Federal excise taxation. It is dyed a color to make it stand out and is referred to as "dyed diesel" usually.

-Eric

 

[Jeff Kleb]

The non-highway diesel fuel (dyed fuel) also has a higher sulfur content than the on-road stuff. So not only is it taxed differently, but it could harm some newer engines and pollute at a greater level.

As with other places, our state troopers sometimes set up checkpoints and randomly "dip" truck tanks with a clear tube to see if you are using non-taxed fuel illegally.

You can't run the non-taxed stuff in a highway truck, but it can be used in railroad trains, generators, trailer refrigerator units or in heavy equipment (bulldozers, graders, etc.).

 

[Offroader]

I think the bottom line is that if Americans continue to feel they have enough money to waste in gas, Diesel won't become popular in the USA.

 

[Offroader]

Now this is Diesel news! The new Range Rover comes with a V8 Turbodiesel.

Range Rover TDV8

Engine: 3.6-litre V8, 272bhp, 472 ft-lb torque

Economy: 25.1mpg

0-60mph: 8.5 sec

"With 472 ft-lb of torque available from only 2,000rpm, a surge of acceleration is available from low in the rev range..."

 

[Jeff Kleb]

Torque Ratings, Diesels, etc.


My work truck is a 2000 International (Navistar) 4900 that is equipped with a DT-466 (roughly 7.7 liters of displacement) turbodiesel engine. It is bigger and stronger than the common "Power Stroke" version of the DT-444 V-8 engine that resides in many Ford Super Duty pickup trucks. Of course, my truck is rated at 32,000 pounds GVWR and can 'pull its load' with relative ease. With a seven-speed manual transmission, it won't win any races but certainly gets the job done.

The engine block alone probably weighs about one third as much as a new 4Runner and is an inline six-cylinder (I-6) design. By looking at it, I would say that the pistons are about as big around as a coffee can. It functions best at about 1500 to 1900 rpm's - and the redline is around 2200; so it is not exactly a high-revving engine by any means.

Go to the Navistar web page and you can learn a lot about truck diesel engines and how strong these beasts really are. Sure, there is a world of difference between a "light duty" diesel powerplant used in a passenger vehicle like the 4Runner - but the heritage is the same. Technology developed for large trucks has trickled down to more 'mainstream' uses and helps to keep emissions lower, lessens noise and increases power.


http://www.internationaldelivers.com/site_layout/engine/2004_Engines.asp

{Essentially a newer version of the engine in my truck.}


The International DT 466 engine features ratings from 210 to 300 hp and peak torque from 520 to 860 lb-ft! The one in my truck is (supposedly) tuned for 250 hp and 650 lb-ft of torque, although the peak amount of it is developed at about 1500 RPM. Let's see a 4Runner gas V8 do that.
:bigok:

We also have a tandem-axle International that is rated at 52,000 pounds GVWR -- and it has the old DT530 engine under the hood. Noisy, slow and smelly.....but never unable to handle a heavy load. It is like driving a dump truck.

While I am reluctant to spring for a diesel engine in my personal vehicle, I know that a properly-designed and well-maintained one can almost hold its own against a gasoline engine. It will pay for itself because of the longer life of the vehicle and the reduction in the amount of fuel used. Don't forget that there are no spark plugs, ignition coils/wires, tune-ups or distributor caps to mess with. Just keep the oil filters fresh, change the crankcase oil regularly and be sure to replace the fuel filters when necessary.

 

[Offroader]

Go to any European country, and you will find lots of sporty cars like Audi, Mercedes and BMW, with unbelievable acceleration and performance from a TurboDiesel engine.

And you will also see millions of cars with decent performance, and unbelievable fuel economy and efficient TurboDiesel engines from Peugeot, Renault, Citroen, Saab, Opel, Volkswagen, Honda, Toyota, etc...

 

[DC2E55]

I used to have '98 Toyota Hilux Surf with 3.0 liter 1KZ-TE motor. I take that car over my '06 4.0 V6 any day. I know diesel is a little slower but nothing feels like stomping on a diesel engine.

 

[Offroader]

I used to have '98 Toyota Hilux Surf with 3.0 liter 1KZ-TE motor. I take that car over my '06 4.0 V6 any day. I know diesel is a little slower but nothing feels like stomping on a diesel engine.

That's the same engine my 2005 T4R has!!

Where are you from?