BigBluePile
New member
Holy crap man, that's crazy. Glad you and your buddy made it out ok!!!
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Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk
Dirtco's 1999 4Runner Build
- Thread starter Dirtco
- Start date
infamousRNR
Senior Member
So all scariness aside, and acknowledging that wheeling alone isn't going to happen again...
Why did the 4Runner die?
What was going on regarding its inability to stay running?...
Was it simply the winch pulling too much power?
How can we learn from this situation to prevent a vehicle from dieing in such conditions?
Why did the 4Runner die?
What was going on regarding its inability to stay running?...
Was it simply the winch pulling too much power?
How can we learn from this situation to prevent a vehicle from dieing in such conditions?
Dirtco
New member
Sorry for the late reply guys, I've had a lot going on the last couple weeks.
I'll start by covering the the two main questions everyone has, then I'll go back and answer the specific questions.
First, why did the 4Runner die? The short answer is that the six month old Optima yellow top was bad. That battery has done weird stuff ever since I got it, and it never wanted to turn over the 4Runner very well. I thought it was a combination of a different battery than I was used to, the cold, and not being driven every day. So I installed a small battery maintainer on the 4Runner, that might have done more harm than good because Optima yellow tops are very picky about how you charge them. When I left my house that day the 4Runner was plugged in and fired right up, I pulled it in the garage to top off the fuel tank and load my stuff. It fired right up when I pulled it out, so I didn't think anything of it and I took off. It was a blizzard outside, so I had the headlights, heater and of course the stereo on.
I believe that by the time I turned around the battery was dead, and the 4Runner was running strictly off the alternator, when I hit the winch button it sucked all the electrical power from the 4Runner and killed the engine. The same thing happened when I bumped the winch button when we were recovering it. Now, here's something that really pissed me off! After I got the 4Runner home I pulled it in the garage, aired up the tires and cleaned out all of the junk inside (recovery tools, shovels, tool bags, reassembled the back seat, etc). I decided to try and start it, and the thing fired right up. Then I ran the winch and it worked perfectly fine too. Ugh, so I drained the battery down and removed it so I could warranty it. I called the place I bought it from and they gave me the run around for a while, they wanted it charged before they would test it but the stupid thing wouldn't hold a charge now. So I just took it to the store and told them to charge and test it, they called me a couple hours later and said the the battery was doing all kinds of weird stuff and they finally agreed to give me a new one.
Now on to the front end. I have not had the time to tear into the 4Runner yet, but this is what I have found. I looked at the passenger side first, because thats the side that was not turning. I checked the boot for the outer joint and it was still tight, normally when the outer joint breaks you can see where the boot has spun on the axle bar and there's a little grease. So I looked at the inner joint and the boot was torn off the joint and there was grease everywhere, then I looked at the driver side and the inner boot was torn off that joint too. So the breakage might be the right inner joint, or it could be something in the ADD / Intermediate shaft.
By the time we got to the 4Runner it had been setting for close to 36 hours and everything was ice cold, the tires had bled down a little and it was frozen to the ground, and the steering was cranked all the way to the passenger side. It doesn't surprise me that shock loading the drivetrain under those conditions would cause something to break, but at that point we had no choice.
I'll start by covering the the two main questions everyone has, then I'll go back and answer the specific questions.
First, why did the 4Runner die? The short answer is that the six month old Optima yellow top was bad. That battery has done weird stuff ever since I got it, and it never wanted to turn over the 4Runner very well. I thought it was a combination of a different battery than I was used to, the cold, and not being driven every day. So I installed a small battery maintainer on the 4Runner, that might have done more harm than good because Optima yellow tops are very picky about how you charge them. When I left my house that day the 4Runner was plugged in and fired right up, I pulled it in the garage to top off the fuel tank and load my stuff. It fired right up when I pulled it out, so I didn't think anything of it and I took off. It was a blizzard outside, so I had the headlights, heater and of course the stereo on.
I believe that by the time I turned around the battery was dead, and the 4Runner was running strictly off the alternator, when I hit the winch button it sucked all the electrical power from the 4Runner and killed the engine. The same thing happened when I bumped the winch button when we were recovering it. Now, here's something that really pissed me off! After I got the 4Runner home I pulled it in the garage, aired up the tires and cleaned out all of the junk inside (recovery tools, shovels, tool bags, reassembled the back seat, etc). I decided to try and start it, and the thing fired right up. Then I ran the winch and it worked perfectly fine too. Ugh, so I drained the battery down and removed it so I could warranty it. I called the place I bought it from and they gave me the run around for a while, they wanted it charged before they would test it but the stupid thing wouldn't hold a charge now. So I just took it to the store and told them to charge and test it, they called me a couple hours later and said the the battery was doing all kinds of weird stuff and they finally agreed to give me a new one.
Now on to the front end. I have not had the time to tear into the 4Runner yet, but this is what I have found. I looked at the passenger side first, because thats the side that was not turning. I checked the boot for the outer joint and it was still tight, normally when the outer joint breaks you can see where the boot has spun on the axle bar and there's a little grease. So I looked at the inner joint and the boot was torn off the joint and there was grease everywhere, then I looked at the driver side and the inner boot was torn off that joint too. So the breakage might be the right inner joint, or it could be something in the ADD / Intermediate shaft.
By the time we got to the 4Runner it had been setting for close to 36 hours and everything was ice cold, the tires had bled down a little and it was frozen to the ground, and the steering was cranked all the way to the passenger side. It doesn't surprise me that shock loading the drivetrain under those conditions would cause something to break, but at that point we had no choice.
BigBluePile
New member
Craziness. I am not a fan of optimas. I have had too many issues with them.
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4Runner4TW
New member
You would do so well if you had a film crew to follow you around
Dirtco
New member
Hey Drew, I don't know if I'm going to put the new Yellow Top in or run something else. I have a few deep cycle batteries that we replaced at work and are still good, I might fit two of those in the 4Runner instead of of the Yellow Top.
Me too Chris! When I came around the corner and saw the 4Runner buried like that my heart just dropped, luckily we were able to get it out.
It sure was!
Hey Rick, the battery was bad. There is a better description above.
Dirtco
New member
Yeah, it was pretty crazy! I don’t feel that it was a life or death situation, but it could have turned bad pretty quick.
Damn Jeremiah, got yourself into a quite the pickle huh... Remind me not to go snow wheeling with youHow pissed off was your wife? haha
I'm guessing the metal grinding was you broke a front CV?
Glad everyone made it out alright. Sucks that dude broke an output shaft on his atlas, ouch..
I sure did John, but thats usually what I do! Snow wheeling is a ton of fun, but you really need more than one rig to be safe. She was pissed, but she didn’t lecture me. She figured I learned my lesson on my own, which I did.
The guy in the Jeep was running street pressure in his tires, so I think it’s safe to assume he was getting at it with the skinny pedal! He seemed like a nice guy, but he wasn't in the best mood (imagine that).
Hi Hayden, there is a better description on the previous page.
Hey Nick! I wish my dog would go out with me, but she hates riding in the car and really hates wheeling.
Yeah, your right. I won’t be doing any more solo snow wheeling (unless it’s super early in the season, or late season and most of the snow is gone), it’s just too risky and there is no way you will be able to carry every single thing you could ever need. I’ll probably try to line up a couple group runs next winter, that way I can still go out and play in the snow, but in a safer atmosphere!
Dirtco
New member
My post on the previous page should cover all your questions, but if you think of anything else feel free to post it.
Dirtco
New member
I heard the quality went down hill, but unfortunately I still gave it a chance. I highly doubt i'll ever run an Optima again.
Hell yeah, that's an awesome idea!!
BigBluePile
New member
I have good luck with duralast agm batteries from autozone.
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Volcom
New member
I run one as well in my crawler, it's been rock solid for two years.
Bijan
New member
Top Gear Colorado Edition
jthompson261
New member
Great job
MtnT4R
New member
I tell everyone I talk to about traveling in the wilderness in CO- no matter how short the trip, always plan on spending the night. Even if its just an emergency bivy, fire starter, and a couple cliff bars...one day the odds will get even and you will be incredibly thankful you have that extra gear in the pack/truck.
Dirtco
New member
This list is how the 4Runner sits now, I have gone through many different phases to get to this point. I upgraded the weak links in the drivetrain as I found them, I feel I have upgraded the 4Runner as much as possible while keeping with the original suspension design. As for the full float kit, don’t bother unless you upgrade the axle housing. Am I satisfied with the IFS? Lets just say that I’m impressed with how well it has held up, it’s not perfect but it’s more capable than I thought it would be when I first started building the 4Runner.
Yes, I would add a front locker. Not only does it make the vehicle more capable, it also gets rid of the weak spider gears in the front differential.
EatonKyleH
New member
Jeez dude! Glad you are alright! Good thing you have some great friends with such wild rigs nearby cause damn I can't imagine trying to get your ass out of a snow wheeling situation you of all people got stuck in. :wow2:
Dirtco
New member
I finally got some time to tear into the 4Runner. I was really hoping it was the passenger side CV that broke, but after I removed the CV and inspected it for damage that wasn't the case. So I removed the ADD assembly from the differential and I found the culprit; I broke the stub shaft on the passenger side of the differential.
I attempted to run a tap into the broken section, but that didn't work and I broke my tap. So I got out the welder and welded a bolt to the broken stub, then I used a slide hammer to get it out.
I attempted to run a tap into the broken section, but that didn't work and I broke my tap. So I got out the welder and welded a bolt to the broken stub, then I used a slide hammer to get it out.
shouldbeasy
New member
Usually that's not the weak link... It's the first one I've ever seen snapped.
For the front end the weak link is (to the best of my knowledge) the CV ball bearing cage on the outboard side of the CV axles. When I had my front locker not wanting to disengage and I still had 1500km's to drive, I knew that I could break the CV axle and separate one wheel from the other (and in turn, the front driveshaft) and did so by driving up a concrete block with the wheels turned.
Perhaps this shaft failure is from being run so hard during its life? Curious.
4Running Daily
New member
Clearly a solid axle swap is the only option
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