engine starts, immediate stall after timing belt job

[Diagram14]

I wouldnt worry about having spun the cam pulley. With these motors and the timing belt off you can spin all three pulleys independently and lose count, and all you have to do is line the timing marks back up on all three and youre good to go. The only real trick is recognizing the two different marks on the crank pulley (one for the crank position and one for the t-belt).

I dont think its a timing issue because these motors will run, usually pretty rough, with an entire bank misfiring because of mistiming. I used the wrong marks on the drive gears of my passanger side cam shafts after a head gasket job and the motor stil held its own.

Keep chasing that electrical/sensor problem. The likelyhood of something untouched during the TB job going bad in the downtime is slim. It sounds to me like a sensor that isnt letting the ECU know that the motor is in running mode. How long would it idle before shutting down? Was it a smooth idle (Im assuming it was)? Did it sputter when it shut off or was it like you had just turned the key?

 

[Whtoyotek]

This is a long shot but I did have this happen once on a 3.4. Vehicle got towed in after timing belt replacement and similar running conditions. Found that the coolant sensor plug had become disturbed and caused the issue. If you have access to a scan tool always check your base data inputs including air temp, coolant temp and rpm signal. If you see one way out of wack that is a huge player in starting and running

 

[Whtoyotek]

I think that this has been said but I would make sure that the cam pulleys are on the proper side because if I remember correctly the driver side pulley has the nub for the cam sensor. If the pulleys were reversed the cam sensor would never pick up a signal.

When doing most Toyota timing belts always use the installation marks on the belt itself. The marks on the cylinder heads and oil pump are for reference only. This is due to manufacturing tolerances. You can set a belt up by the cylinder head marks and it can be off due to manufacturing tolerance.

 

[1blink]

it idled for approx 1-2 seconds smoothly at 900 rpm, then sputtered to death. That changed by the 3rd day of trouble shooting to no start at all.

I will check the computer for coolant and air temps, thx.

 

[TheDurk]

I think that this has been said but I would make sure that the cam pulleys are on the proper side because if I remember correctly the driver side pulley has the nub for the cam sensor. If the pulleys were reversed the cam sensor would never pick up a signal.

When doing most Toyota timing belts always use the installation marks on the belt itself. The marks on the cylinder heads and oil pump are for reference only. This is due to manufacturing tolerances. You can set a belt up by the cylinder head marks and it can be off due to manufacturing tolerance.

This bolded part doesn't really make sense to me. What we are trying to time are the cam and crankshafts. If those hit TDC at the same time, I don't really care how the belt is set up. I don't believe that those marks can be off by any significant amount, certainly not by an entire tooth or even half a tooth.

Truth is, I set up a new belt with the marks on the belt, but I am not happy until I've turned the crank 360° and the reference marks are spot on. They always are.

 

[1blink]

Still stuck on this problem. I have eliminated the following possibilities:

Timing/pulley setup
ECU
Igniter
Cam sensor
Crank sensor
MAF
Coil packs
Ignition wires
Wiring between all the above has been tested for continuity and shorts.


Air temp, coolant temp, rpm, and TPS all show appropriate values when checking the computer with Torque Pro on my phone.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/127951-torque-pro-android-app.html
What else could cause it to not run? The ECU is not sending a spark signal to coil pack 1. From what I understand, the truck should still run, albeit roughly, even without cylinders 1 and 4. She will start for a second or so, then die out. Once in a while i get a rough idle for 10 seconds before it lumbers to a stop.

 

[T4RFool]

I can't remember if this has been thrown out there as a possibility but have you checked the Fuel pump or filter? Seeing as you've checked so much already, might as well. If it was the fuel pump, there wouldn't be a CEL.

 

[LittleCaesar]

+1 with T4R fool.

When you changed out the belt, the battery was connected correct? Have you checked all the fuses, possibly shorting something out?

When I have had ignition switches go out (albeit both on Acuras), they both fired for 5 seconds or less and then would die.

Just throwing out ideas here.

 

[iowajosh]

IF the lower timing gear around the crank is not on the key, it will not run. Also the toothed washer behind the gear has to have all of it's teeth.

 

[Buckaroo]

Although it has been said, and pictures have been included, it is important to note that there are two timing marks on the crankshaft gear. First is the mark that you use to set the timing of the crank at Top Dead Center (mark #1). After doing this, you set both the cam shaft gear marks at TDC. Without changing anything, you string on the timing belt, matching the cam shaft marks on the timing belt with the TDC marks on the camshaft gears (arrows on the belt pointing towards the front of the car - right/left is as you sit in the drivers seat, not facing the car). Now you align the mark on the timing belt with the other mark on the crankshaft gear (mark #2). It is ~90 degrees to the left (sitting in the drivers seat) of mark #1. Mark #1 should be straight up at this point. The timing belt is in the right position with the crankshaft gear mark #2 and the two cam gear TDC marks aligned with the marks on the belt. At this point, the belt should be taught moving from the right cam gear, through the idler pulley, to the left cam gear and then to the crankshaft gear. You will tighten the slack in the other side of the belt when you install the tensioner pulley.

Sorry for dragging through the detail but I am having a hard time believing this is not timing belt related. Just a thought, have you verified the part store gave you the right belt?

Good luck....

 

[GX4SEVEND]

This is also going on a full month of being without your runner. You need to just bring it to someone to diagnose it seeing as how you haven't figured it out yet.

As I have stated and others have as well, you did a timing belt job. Not sure how some other system randomly failed during that exact time. You should just pay someone at this point and get your vehicle back running.

 

[1blink]

I forgot to mention T4RFool, I did confirm that I have fuel pressure.

LittleCaesar, I don't think the ignition switch is a possibility, as two of the three coils are sparking, the injectors are squirting fuel, and the starter cranks the engine over.

iowajosh and Buckaroo, I intend to tear it down again this weekend and go over everything again. If anything is out of place I will catch it. I ordered the timing belt kit from Aircabinman, the timing belt says Toyota 13568-YZZ03 on it. I am pretty certain it is the correct belt.

05 LTD, I don't trust anybody else to work on my vehicles anymore. Too many times I have been burned by a mechanic not paying enough attention to their work. Loose lug nuts on the work van, rear axle bolt on a motorcycle left finger tight, oil filled a quart low, bolts lost and not replaced....
I certainly cant trust my local dealership. When I was considering replacing the ECU during troubleshooting, I asked their mechanics if reprogramming was necessary when the ECU was swapped. They said it was necessary, and offered to do it for $120. I can't imagine taking them a vehicle to learn on. I can't even trust them to find the correct part #'s for me, I have to look them up before I call if I want the right part.

 

[shadow247]

Just curious how you got the top timing cover off without disconnecting the cam position sensor on the front.

Check the EFI relay and all grounds as well.

If the CPS is plugged in, then my bet is that the engine is out of time.

I pulled my top timing cover last weekend to investigate the timing belt squeak. The only thing I had to disconnect was the upper rad hose from the engine. Everything else stayed plugged in, I just had to unclip the spark plug wire holders and popped the plug out of its mounting for the cam position sensor.

 

[Forrrrest]

Ok well I work for a dealership, parts department 13568-69095 is the original part number but recently we got the 13568-yzz03 in as a supercession. It is very possible that you got what Is called miss pic (wrong part with correct number) actually happens quite often. But tear it down and double check all corresponding marks are at correct postions. And the belt marks are in line with with the marks on all 3 pulleys. Keep in mind cranl has 2 marks one for tdc and one for the belt. It's extremely hard believing its not a t-belt issue. It is possible that you shortest something out by not unplugging the battery. If all marks line up maybe take bwlt to dealership and see if it matches. I have also heard of the belt markings being off or miss printed. Just a shot to see if it helps!!!

 

[Buckaroo]

For what it is worth, I just did a new timing belt on my 2000 3.4L and got the parts from Aircabinman also - finished it a week ago. All the parts were good and job went smoothly. I checked off the part numbers upon receipt and my notes indicate that belt was 13568-69095/YZZ03 (same as yours, I think). Someone had mentioned the possibility that you accidently swapped the cam gears right to left when you reinstalled them. They are marked "right" and "left". The right one (as you sit in the drivers seat) has the lug for the cam shaft position sensor so important that is on the correct side (as previously mentioned).

 

[Buckaroo]

Also - I am pretty sure that the belt marks do not line up on every revolution, or every two revolutions of the crank. Would think that they would have to come back into position every x revolutions but I don't know how many....Obviously the TDC marks on the cam gears and the crankshaft gear should align every two revolutions of the crank. If the belt is not aligned correctly, the TDC marks will not consistently align. Just a thought as you tear into it and attempt to verify the belt is aligned correctly.

 

[1blink]

Today I finally found the time to take it all apart again. Finally found something wrong! I turned the engine over by hand to look for missing teeth on the crank timing gear, but somehow I missed this until I had it all the way apart.

During the process of tearing it down, I dropped the crank pulley and broke a section off the outer rim. I will have to replace it now as well. I suppose I should also buy a new crankshaft pulley bolt, as they are a single use item and this one has been torqued once already. I have been looking at a lightweight crank pulley, does anybody have input on the URD Supergrip Crankshaft Pulley?
Underdog Racing Development

 

[LittleCaesar]

Good to hear that you finally found the problem. The real satisfaction should occur when you turn over the key and it starts.

No input on the lightweight pulley; other members can chime in.

The part# for a new crank bolt is 90119-16006. It is used for all year 3rd gen 4runners now, not just 99+. The timing pulley as it is named is #13521-62031.

 

[TheDurk]

The URD part is NOT a replacement for the part in your picture. The URD is a Crankshaft Pulley, Part #13408‑62040, and it mounts in front of the Crankshaft Timing Pulley, with the part no. given above and that is in your picture.

I wasn't sure if you had not understood that, or if you wanted to replace the Crankshaft Pulley as well as the Crankshaft Timing Pulley.

 

[1blink]

I dropped the crank pulley, causing the damage below. Never dropped the crank timing pulley, and have no explanation for the missing tooth.