Everytime I change the oil I get scared...

[Ruby Khan]

Hi,

Re: 2023 4 Runner Off Road Premium with 21,784 miles.

We bought the 4 Runner when it was new. I have changed the oil in it several times, and did so again today.

Each time I try to tighten the oil filter housing I hyper-worry about making it too tight. So I have given it my best guess , it always worked out ok, but I worried for a few days before calming down.

Later, when I go to remove and replace the filter, I feel like I must have over tightened it. It's on there good, and takes quite a bit of force to release the bind.

I have Precision Instruments split beam torque wrenches that suit higher pound/foot values but I do not own a wrench that works for the oil housing's recommended 25Nm = 18.44lbs/foot = 221 lbs/inch setting.

Every time I have changed the oil on the 4 Runner I think "I should buy a torque wrench for this range," but I don't do it.

This morning I drove down to a buddies Jeep shop and borrowed his Snap-On 1/4" Drive Flex-Head TechAngle® Micro Torque Wrench (15–300 in-lb), which we both assume is fairly accurate, as it is near the top of the line and gets calibrated once a year.

I brought it home, set it to 25nM and crawled under the car to set the oil filter housing to spec.

The resistance rapidly rose to require about 15nM and then it just stayed there as I continued to spin the filter housing inward.

At some point, I became convinced that 15nM was tighter than I had ever made it with my previous done-by-feel decision making. The torque wrench was reading about 17nM when I gave up forcing the issue. The readout was not going to rise any higher until I bottomed out the filter, and that would be way past the point where I have gone in the past, so it seemed sure to impress as having been over tightened the next time I go to remove it.

I ran the engine for 10 minutes after filling the oil and the seal seems good.

I am using the OEM plastic housing, but I do lubricate the threads and o-ring with a generous amount of fresh oil, which alters the K factor that underlies the torque specification.

I can't imagine, placing the plastic housing without lubrication, but I also can't imagine getting an accurate torque spec match without a dry thread.

What to do?

Anyways, I am writing to ask if anyone else has some insights or thoughts to share regarding adherence to the torque spec for the plastic housing.

I think I will go back to my done-by-feel methodology.

With regards to the plastic housing, what are your thoughts? Is 25nM a crazy high spec?

Thank you!

 

[osugsxr]

Hi,

Re: 2023 4 Runner Off Road Premium with 21,784 miles.

We bought the 4 Runner when it was new. I have changed the oil in it several times, and did so again today.

Each time I try to tighten the oil filter housing I hyper-worry about making it too tight. So I have given it my best guess , it always worked out ok, but I worried for a few days before calming down.

Later, when I go to remove and replace the filter, I feel like I must have over tightened it. It's on there good, and takes quite a bit of force to release the bind.

I have Precision Instruments split beam torque wrenches that suit higher pound/foot values but I do not own a wrench that works for the oil housing's recommended 25Nm = 18.44lbs/foot = 221 lbs/inch setting.

Every time I have changed the oil on the 4 Runner I think "I should buy a torque wrench for this range," but I don't do it.

This morning I drove down to a buddies Jeep shop and borrowed his Snap-On 1/4" Drive Flex-Head TechAngle® Micro Torque Wrench (15–300 in-lb), which we both assume is fairly accurate, as it is near the top of the line and gets calibrated once a year.

I brought it home, set it to 25nM and crawled under the car to set the oil filter housing to spec.

The resistance rapidly rose to require about 15nM and then it just stayed there as I continued to spin the filter housing inward.

At some point, I became convinced that 15nM was tighter than I had ever made it with my previous done-by-feel decision making. The torque wrench was reading about 17nM when I gave up forcing the issue. The readout was not going to rise any higher until I bottomed out the filter, and that would be way past the point where I have gone in the past, so it seemed sure to impress as having been over tightened the next time I go to remove it.

I ran the engine for 10 minutes after filling the oil and the seal seems good.

I am using the OEM plastic housing, but I do lubricate the threads and o-ring with a generous amount of fresh oil, which alters the K factor that underlies the torque specification.

I can't imagine, placing the plastic housing without lubrication, but I also can't imagine getting an accurate torque spec match without a dry thread.

What to do?

Anyways, I am writing to ask if anyone else has some insights or thoughts to share regarding adherence to the torque spec for the plastic housing.

I think I will go back to my done-by-feel methodology.

With regards to the plastic housing, what are your thoughts? Is 25nM a crazy high spec?

Thank you!

keep at tq specs or little less, I hand tighten it and 1/4 turn with wrench. I would recommed switching to the metal housing. I think it was from the camry but not 100%, there is a forum regarding it. I've been using that for the past 70k miles

 

[Ruby Khan]

Hi,
What I am saying is that after lubricating the threads of the plastic housing, the fitment felt excessively tight at 65% of the torque spec.

I suspect the lubrication lowers the K factor to the point where 15 to 17 Newtons/meter of torque exerts more clamping force on the threads than a 25 Nm torque does on a dry thread.

I don't remove and reinstall the plastic oil filter housing frequently enough to form an empirical observation.

I am wondering if anyone else who works with the plastic housings has insights about the factory-advised torque specs and how the lubrication alters expectations.

For example, I can imagine that without lube, the resistance would rise more rapidly, requiring the specified 25 Nm to continue insertion, but the plastic could also easily give up and shatter before the assembly actually achieved the desired clamping force.

With the lube, I feel like the plastic has a much better chance of surviving, but only if you don't mistakenly over-tighten it to meet a spec intended for a dry-fit scenario.

I would appreciate learning what others have observed while working with their plastic housings.

Thank you.

 

[Ezlife45]

I have been changing my oil on my '14 for 12 years now. When I used a torque wrench after heating/cooling cycles and 5k miles, the filters were tough to remove, even the drain plug. I have resorted to "spark plug tight" for the drain cap, and small slap on ratchet to tighten the filter housing. Every time I remove the cap and filter housing, they are snug and show no signs of loosening. I tighten the filter housing the way I've always tightened oil filters. Heat/cool cycles and time have them tighten up.

I purchased a GX460 and the dealership did an oil change with a cheap filter/O ring. Similar to my 4R. The cheap setup O ring swelled up and made the housing removal VERY hard to remove. Like pushing pretty hard on a 30" breaker bar hard. The housing will take more than you think it can. Usually my 4R takes a little shove on a 24" breaker bar, and the drain cap is a little shove on a 1/2" ratchet with a reducer to 3/8 or my 11" extended 3/8 ratchet.

Adding this edit. An O-ring is not a clamping force like a drain bolt washer. The O ring sits in the groove and has a designed "crush" to fit when you install it. The O-ring will not get tighter in the groove with additional torque. A drain bolt washer gets tighter with more torque.

 

[premise]

Yes, lube the oring/threads, then rotate the cap until it bottoms. No additional "tightening" is necessary. And it will STILL be tough getting off, all the way off, as the inherent friction associated w/ the overall design causes this. And if you don't have a Motivx cap wrench, well... get one.

 

[gordonp]

All the sealing is done with the O-ring, not the torque/clamping.

Once the O-ring enters the machined pocket on the engine, it's pretty much going to do the intended job (seal against leaks). The torque value is there to make sure the filter-housing won't spontaneously spin itself loose - but as we've all seen, it actually gets tighter over time, as you drive it.

Thus - get the O-ring to enter the machined pocket. Snug the housing down, gently. Call it good, but of course: start the engine and verify no leaks.

As others have said, but I'll reinforce:

• you will need a breaker-bar to gently loosen the housing, every time. Do not use an impact wrench!!! Things will crack ...
• use the Motivx socket, which engages on all the bumps around the filter-housing. Before I bought the Motivx socket, I used a cheapie socket which engaged on three fins, and I cracked the fin-base and created an oil-leak. Thus - check every time for leaks.

I have upgraded to the Lexus aluminum filter-cap, but I don't think it's actually necessary. It makes me feel good though And I hate running around town late on a Sunday for urgent replacement parts, so I have a spare (aluminum) housing in my shed, "just in case". Fits my 4Runner, and with a change of the central tube, I could also make it fit my wife's RAV4.

 

[Mrvmax]

Sounds like too much overthinking, hand tight then a little more with the wrench, that is it. I never use a torque wrench and have never had an issue with the 2019 or 2023.

 

[Humble Leader]

made it with my previous done-by-feel decision making

experience beats textbooks everyday .

 

[johnnygraphic]

OP-I'm with you on the anxiety of the oil change and second guessing every last detail. I have the same sickness. Whenever I watch a YT video of a failed engine or odd sound or symptom, I start imagining the same things....kind of like hypochondriac, but for car problems.

Regardless of your torque setting, as long as it is tight and not leaking, you're golden. No matter what torque you set it to, it WILL get tighter to remove. Same with the oil drain plug.

I will give you one tip though, and this applies to everyone here. BEFORE your powertrain warranty is up, take your car into the dealership for service/inspection. These 1GR engines have some pesky oil leaks that can be VERY damaging to the wallet if you have to pay for it out of pocket. Mine happens to be the infamous timing cover leak. Toyota still has problems with it. My 4Runner had only 31k miles at 5 years and it was pretty bad. It comes down to a problem with the gray sealant they used and the leaks always happen on the passenger side near the power steering pump/water pump area. You have to really search to see the oil.

 

[Nick B]

I’m heavy handed so I use a torque wrench on everything. As stated above OP if you don’t already have a Motivx filter socket get one . Your plastic housing will last the life of the vehicle.
And tell your other half you want a torque wrench for your birthday, Father’s Day, or anniversary . Whatever comes first .
Get a good one . Buy once, cry once. It’ll last you a lifetime.
I use CDI.

 

[<<<<]

I always use torque specs on everything. Since I'm not pro and don't have muscle memory for such things I'd probably overtighten and strip things if used "good and tight" method. 18 ft/lb housing (mine is metal) and 10 ft/lb on filter drain.

 

[Mrvmax]

I always use torque specs on everything. Since I'm not pro and don't have muscle memory for such things I'd probably overtighten and strip things if used "good and tight" method. 18 ft/lb housing (mine is metal) and 10 ft/lb on filter drain.

I have stripped fittings before from tightening too much so over the last 40 years I have learned how much force to use. I do torque other fasteners that are not used very frequently. Just did the diff and transfer case service and I torqued all of those fasteners.

 

[spartacus]

I use the torque wrench but there are instances like drain plugs etc that I don't trust the click torque wrenches and go by good and tight. Bit if you have a good quality torque wrench I would go with it.

 

[progress4m]

Yes, lube the oring/threads, then rotate the cap until it bottoms. No additional "tightening" is necessary. And it will STILL be tough getting off, all the way off, as the inherent friction associated w/ the overall design causes this. And if you don't have a Motivx cap wrench, well... get one.

100% agree! Between 4Runner and other Toyota vehicles my family has with the same cartridge type oil filter, I would say I have changed oil about 45 + times... lol, all vehicles have original plastic oil cap - no issues at all.

To OP: Just rotate the cap until it bottoms out and stop, nothing else is needed.

 

[Charles Bronson]

I've been doing oil changes on my wife's 2020 4runner since new and I've done a ton of oil changes because she drives so much.

Yes, it takes a little force to break the filter cap loose and it does get somewhat tight towards the last 30% of running it down, but don't over-think this. Run it down until it seats to the aluminum filter housing and then give it one little uga-dugga, similar to the torque used on a spark plug. I have never seen a single drop of oil sneak through in this area in 7 years.

The only reason Toyota has a torque spec is because they have to provide one just as a frame of reference. I doubt any seasoned Toyota tech is using a torque wrench for this.

 

[AuSeeker]

I've been doing oil changes on my wife's 2020 4runner since new and I've done a ton of oil changes because she drives so much.

Yes, it takes a little force to break the filter cap loose and it does get somewhat tight towards the last 30% of running it down, but don't over-think this. Run it down until it seats to the aluminum filter housing and then give it one little uga-dugga, similar to the torque used on a spark plug. I have never seen a single drop of oil sneak through in this area in 7 years.

The only reason Toyota has a torque spec is because they have to provide one just as a frame of reference. I doubt any seasoned Toyota tech is using a torque wrench for this.

Just an FYI, there's no "seasoned Toyota tech" doing oil changes at any dealerships (unless it's his own vehicle), oil changes are done by the newest/youngest least experienced guys at the dealership.