Extra electric fan for hot temps

[warriorwagner]

I'm taking my 4Runner to the middle east later this year and the temps there get up to 120 degrees sometimes. I'm wondering if adding an electric fan behind my grill, so outside the condenser, to push extra air over the condenser and radiator would be a good idea. I'll still have my stock fan in the engine compartment. I can't see it hurting anything, mainly for extra cooling if stuck at red lights and driving in traffic.

Has anybody done this before and if so, how did you mount it?

Thanks

 

[nevada]

I'm taking my 4Runner to the middle east later this year and the temps there get up to 120 degrees sometimes. I'm wondering if adding an electric fan behind my grill, so outside the condenser, to push extra air over the condenser and radiator would be a good idea. I'll still have my stock fan in the engine compartment. I can't see it hurting anything, mainly for extra cooling if stuck at red lights and driving in traffic.

Has anybody done this before and if so, how did you mount it?

Thanks

it will be blocking airflow any time its not on.

assuming your cooling system works properly, you shouldn't need any extra fans.

 

[gamefreakgc]

it will be blocking airflow any time its not on.

assuming your cooling system works properly, you shouldn't need any extra fans.

Yeah, the fan on the 5VZ-FE works pretty darn good. I've not seen any necessary fan swaps since our engines run cool enough.

Now for the 2nd Gen crowd, cooling was an issue at low speeds. Then again, that engine had hosts of problems. If you overheated just once your head gaskets would blow :mad2:

 

[4-Ripcord]

Replace the radiator, get a lower temp thermostat, get Redline Water Wetter to add to coolant.

Problem solved

 

[jeremyc74]

As long as everything is working like it's supposed to it's unnecessary. These things have plenty of cooling capacity. I spent a year working in UAE and there are Toyota SUVs everywhere, and they do just fine.

 

[warriorwagner]

Replace the radiator, get a lower temp thermostat, get Redline Water Wetter to add to coolant.

Problem solved

Sounds like a better plan, thanks.

 

[nevada]

Sounds like a better plan, thanks.

I don't suggest a lower stat. that wont actually help it from running hotter. it will just open sooner. if its going to overheat, it will do so regardless of the stat...

use the correct stat for the engine.

 

[4-Ripcord]

I don't suggest a lower stat. that wont actually help it from running hotter. it will just open sooner. if its going to overheat, it will do so regardless of the stat...

use the correct stat for the engine.

This is not entirely true. While one of the functions of the thermostat is to begin (key word there) to open at a certain temp. The thermostat also controls flow as the temp of the coolant continues to rise.

BTW TRD has a performance thermostat that is lower temp than the Stant one.

 

[nevada]

This is not entirely true. While one of the functions of the thermostat is to begin (key word there) to open at a certain temp. The thermostat also controls flow as the temp of the coolant continues to rise.

BTW TRD has a performance thermostat that is lower temp than the Stant one.

if the engine is going to run above the stat temp, then it will always be OPEN, and regulating nothing.

as I said before, use the correct stat for the engine.

 

[4-Ripcord]

if the engine is going to run above the stat temp, then it will always be OPEN, and regulating nothing.

as I said before, use the correct stat for the engine.

Thermostats are valves, not switches. Meaning they are not just ON or OFF. They have a range of operation.

The thing to understand about flow of coolant is that the faster the coolant flows through a radiator, the LESS heat is transferred away from the coolant. So what thermostats do to keep temps in the range they are designed for is to open just enough so that the fluid velocity dictates how much heat the coolant loses or keeps. Too much fluid flow nets very little cooling. It is a hard concept to grasp but just think of it as the coolant spends less time in the radiator cooling down.

"Correct" thermostats are entirely dependent on the market a vehicle is sold in. Do you think that a vehicle shipped to Canada has the same thermostat setting as a vehicle shipped to the middle east where OP is going? The answer is no. US market 5VZ engines only had one thermostat setting, but other markets had other thermostats.

 

[nevada]

Thermostats are valves, not switches. Meaning they are not just ON or OFF. They have a range of operation.

The thing to understand about flow of coolant is that the faster the coolant flows through a radiator, the LESS heat is transferred away from the coolant. So what thermostats do to keep temps in the range they are designed for is to open just enough so that the fluid velocity dictates how much heat the coolant loses or keeps. Too much fluid flow nets very little cooling. It is a hard concept to grasp but just think of it as the coolant spends less time in the radiator cooling down.

"Correct" thermostats are entirely dependent on the market a vehicle is sold in. Do you think that a vehicle shipped to Canada has the same thermostat setting as a vehicle shipped to the middle east where OP is going? The answer is no. US market 5VZ engines only had one thermostat setting, but other markets had other thermostats.

correct, but if the engine temps stay above the stat rating, it will never close. a lower stat does NOT prevent an engine from overheating if it has insufficient cooling capacity.

im not sure what your argument is. all I said was to use the prescribed stat for his particular engine.

 

[4-Ripcord]

correct, but if the engine temps stay above the stat rating, it will never close. a lower stat does NOT prevent an engine from overheating if it has insufficient cooling capacity.

im not sure what your argument is. all I said was to use the prescribed stat for his particular engine.

Alright lets back up a bit..

The OP is going to a hot area. He wants to make sure his engine runs cool. The OEM theromostat (180 deg) will usually keep engines running around 195-200 degrees in the US market. The Stant thermostat is a 170 degree thermostat and will keep engines running 185-190 degrees (again in the US market). OP will not be in the US market though will he? No he won't.

What I am saying is that the Thermostat designed for his US market 5VZ engine is not the correct spec to run in the middle east.

Overheating will occur when something in the coolant system isn't doing its job, what we are trying to do is keep the OPs normal operating temp down in a climate with less cooling potential.

 

[jeremyc74]

Alright lets back up a bit..

The OP is going to a hot area. He wants to make sure his engine runs cool. The OEM theromostat (180 deg) will usually keep engines running around 195-200 degrees in the US market. The Stant thermostat is a 170 degree thermostat and will keep engines running 185-190 degrees (again in the US market). OP will not be in the US market though will he? No he won't.

What I am saying is that the Thermostat designed for his US market 5VZ engine is not the correct spec to run in the middle east.

Overheating will occur when something in the coolant system isn't doing its job, what we are trying to do is keep the OPs normal operating temp down in a climate with less cooling potential.

The thermostat is a regulator. It's going to regulate to it's temperature setpoint until it's wide open, and then the temperature is going to float at the capacity of the cooling system. If the ambient temperature is so hot it won't allow a 195 degree thermostat to regulate to it's setpoint, it's not going to allow a cooler one to hit its setpoint either.

Changing the thermostat might lower the operating temperature, but the truck is designed to operate in the 180-195 degree range no matter where it's at, and the same thermostat used in the US will do exactly the same thing in the higher ambient temps as long as the cooling system is capable of keeping up.

The truck will be fine over there. As I said earlier, I lived in the UAE for a year and modern vehicles, especially Toyotas, don't have any issues with it.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Alright lets back up a bit..

The OP is going to a hot area. He wants to make sure his engine runs cool. The OEM theromostat (180 deg) will usually keep engines running around 195-200 degrees in the US market. The Stant thermostat is a 170 degree thermostat and will keep engines running 185-190 degrees (again in the US market). OP will not be in the US market though will he? No he won't.

What I am saying is that the Thermostat designed for his US market 5VZ engine is not the correct spec to run in the middle east.

Overheating will occur when something in the coolant system isn't doing its job, what we are trying to do is keep the OPs normal operating temp down in a climate with less cooling potential.

Both of your are right, in your own regard. A cooler thermostat will not keep a car from overheating. If there's a cooling issue, it's going to overheat regardless of what thermostat you have in there if it's working properly.

However, a cooler thermostat will fully open quicker than a stock one. The thermostat opens gradually, it responds to heat slowly and based on the temperature (ever tested one by boiling it?). A 170* thermostat will fully open quicker than a 180* thermostat and therefore, the engine will be a little bit cooler internally since the 180* thermostat will fully open 10* hotter than the 170*. It's a small difference, granted, and if you 4Runner is overheating at say, 220* (exaggeration) then the thermostat is going to do diddly-squat here. But under normal conditions, it will help. Not a whole lot, but it will.

More important is fresh coolant and the other maintenance suggestions posted earlier.

For the record, I run the cooler TRD thermostat because of the supercharger. It's recommended by Toyota as part of the install.

 

[absalom]

It's 115 here today, and will be for the next few months. Never had an issue with stock thermostat with either of my 3rd gens. Keep in mind folks, it's nearly as harmful to run your engine under proper operating temperature as it is to run over temp.

Some recommended reading on the subject of electric fans and aux cooling.

 

[4-Ripcord]

The thermostat is a regulator. It's going to regulate to it's temperature setpoint until it's wide open, and then the temperature is going to float at the capacity of the cooling system. If the ambient temperature is so hot it won't allow a 195 degree thermostat to regulate to it's setpoint, it's not going to allow a cooler one to hit its setpoint either.

Changing the thermostat might lower the operating temperature, but the truck is designed to operate in the 180-195 degree range no matter where it's at, and the same thermostat used in the US will do exactly the same thing in the higher ambient temps as long as the cooling system is capable of keeping up.

The truck will be fine over there. As I said earlier, I lived in the UAE for a year and modern vehicles, especially Toyotas, don't have any issues with it.

Most correct post in this thread here.

I have been thinking/posting about it all wrong. Forget about what I said about the temps fluctuating in different markets, that was wrong.

What I had in my head was margin to high temps. The recommended temp range is 185-205. The Stant thermostat will keep you at the bottom end of that range which is why I recommended it to the OP. Both thermostat options will work fine, but in my opinion the lower temp one would be better in that climate.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Both of your are right, in your own regard. A cooler thermostat will not keep a car from overheating. If there's a cooling issue, it's going to overheat regardless of what thermostat you have in there if it's working properly.

However, a cooler thermostat will fully open quicker than a stock one. The thermostat opens gradually, it responds to heat slowly and based on the temperature (ever tested one by boiling it?). A 170* thermostat will fully open quicker than a 180* thermostat and therefore, the engine will be a little bit cooler internally since the 180* thermostat will fully open 10* hotter than the 170*. It's a small difference, granted, and if you 4Runner is overheating at say, 220* (exaggeration) then the thermostat is going to do diddly-squat here. But under normal conditions, it will help. Not a whole lot, but it will.

More important is fresh coolant and the other maintenance suggestions posted earlier.

For the record, I run the cooler TRD thermostat because of the supercharger. It's recommended by Toyota as part of the install.

I have to agree with Nevada and Jeremy, the coolant will open fully while the temp is cooler, but that won't last long enough to even mention. There is no thermal benefit to the thermostat opening sooner, it will not "run" at a cooler temperature. The primary job of the thermostat is to warm the engine up quicker, so in that sense the 180 will warm the engine quicker than the 170. In 120 degrees, we are talking seconds, not even minutes. As jeremy said, it is a regulator, in colder weather it has more responsibility. Look at the race car/tuner websites and they will all agree. The temp rating of the thermostat is more like a low setting, not a high setting, and has no effect on the "run" temperature. NONE.

:grouphug:

 

[98OzarksRunner]

A cooler thermostat will usually make the vehicle run cooler, but won't prevent overheating. Supercharged and turbocharged vehicles often have lower temp thermostats to set the operating temperature cooler to avoid detonation. But the thermostat doesn't 'keep' it cooler; it merely sets the low point at which the engine is considered warmed up (i.e. it won't maintain temp any lower than that of the thermostat).

The reason a lower temp thermostat will (usually) keep an engine running cooler is not that it regulates flow to keep it cooler (though it is correct that limiting the flow is necessary for the coolant to remove heat from the engine - removing a thermostat entirely will often make an engine run hotter). The reason a lower temp thermostat makes the engine run cooler is that the cooling system is designed to have excess cooling capacity - that is, it has enough cooling capacity to keep the engine running at the lower temperature so the higher temp setting of the thermostat limits how cool the engine can run (most modern cars probably have enough capacity to cool well below the thermostat temp - that's why overheating is rare these days compared to 'back in the day' when I grew up). If the cooling system only has enough cooling capacity to keep an engine running at 200 deg in 100 deg weather, putting a 160 deg thermostat won't make any difference - it will run at 200 deg (or more) since the system can't remove any more heat.

So, if Toyota designed the 3rd gen to run at 190, put a 190 thermostat in it. If it gets hotter than that you have exceeded the cooling capacity of the system (either it's VERY hot where you are or you have cooling system problems). A lower temp thermostat won't keep it from overheating, and will probably cost mileage, increased emissions, and engine wear (if it's too low - like 160 deg).

 

[warriorwagner]

I understand and appreciate all the discussion, I certainly learned something. I'm going to be replacing the timing belt soon and plan on replacing the radiator with a new one, along with a tranny cooler. I'll replace the thermostat with a stock one when I replace the water pump and add some Redline Water Wetter.

That should keep everything cool.

Thanks.

 

[4-Ripcord]

A lower rated thermostat WILL cause the engine to run at a lower normal operating temp. What people here have been saying (which is also true) is that once the engine is above the normal temp the thermostat is designed for, it is up to the rest of the cooling system to bring it back to that temp.

Read this for more info:
Stant